new excitement from Bullseye

[nazthug]

http://www.bullseye-power.com/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=117


Looks VERY promissing, damn, makes me want to upgrade from my t04b vtrim

but hten again, this t04b keeps impressing me everyday, im adding HUGE cars to my car list DAILY

Im seeing 22-23psi on meth injection on 91 octane and it just tears it up...no complaints here

But i may be lookin for an even bigger upgrade, most likely from bullseye again, and maybe even this super t04e

it looks pretty badass

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

OK. What is a super 50 trim? If it's 10% larger than a 50 trim wheel, it's not a 50 trim wheel is it??? YOu are getting geeked up over yet ANOTHER product with absolutely no testing, no performance #'s, NOTHING. I guess people like you deserve products like this.

 

[Steve93Talon]

It probably is a "50 trim". That's an irrelevant number. It has nothing to do with airflow. And it's become a marketing term due to the success of a certain colored turbo which uses that wheel. Trim is simply the difference between the inducer and exducer diameters. If I recall correctly, a 16g is a 50 trim wheel. I would like to have more info on the wheel, is it a newer Garrett design, possibly from the GT series?

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

I would like to have more info on the wheel, is it a newer Garrett design, possibly from the GT series?

That's super secret squirrel information there mister. It's G42 Classified!

 

[nazthug]

OK. What is a super 50 trim? If it's 10% larger than a 50 trim wheel, it's not a 50 trim wheel is it??? YOu are getting geeked up over yet ANOTHER product with absolutely no testing, no performance #'s, NOTHING. I guess people like you deserve products like this.

yeah, if its as "shity" as the t04b that i have that has already put down 394, 343, 350whp out of the 3 dynoes done on it by 3 different people, it must be a real POS....

 

[Big Woo]

A super 50 trim turbo, has a compressor wheel with a larger exducer diameter than the standard 50 trim wheel. The inducer diameter remains the same for both wheels.

 

[Steve93Talon]

A super 50 trim turbo, has a compressor wheel with a larger exducer diameter than the standard 50 trim wheel. The inducer diameter remains the same for both wheels.

That makes no sense. If you take a 50 trim wheel and increase the exducer while keeping the inducer the same size, it wont be a 50 trim anymore.

http://www.turbominivan.com/tech/turbo201.htm

 

[1029TSG]

Its not the same size inducer for this turbo, it has a 2.31/3.30

 

[1029TSG]

If you're referring to the Turbonetics Super 50 trim then you're correct. Its a same size inducer on a 3.2 back, that would not be a true 50 trim. We dont use Turbonetics components.

 

[redrkt]

The Super 50 trim flows the same 49lbs/min max as the regular 50 trim, so i don't see how it is a higher flowing wheel than a regular 50 trim. The compressor maps are damn near identical, except the Super 50 is capable of higher boost (~36+ psi)and maybe a little more lag due to it's size.

It seems kind of strange that 2 totally different size compressor wheels(inducer and exducer) could use the same exact compressor map(the original 50 trim map) except for the pressure ratio being changed. I'm not accusing anyone specifically, but it looks like someone just took an original 50 trim map and changed a few things on it to me.

Original 50 trim map:

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Super 50 trim map:

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What does this wheel have to offer that the regular 50 trim doesn't, other than the capability to run over 36 psi of boost while still being limited to 49lbs/min max flow?

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

T

What does this wheel have to offer that the regular 50 trim doesn't, other than the capability to run over 36 psi of boost while still being limited to 49lbs/min max flow?

If it were up to me, I'd take the plain jane 50 trim that flows 49lb/min at 30psi vs. the Super Duper 50 trim that flows 49lb/min at 36psi. But that's just me. Some people might like to say they can run 36psi.

 

[deusxmachina]

It comes with a 360 thrust bearing, at least. I don't expect the 270's to have a long life.

After you add in the extras, the price starts getting pretty high for something with no long-term (or short-term?) testing behind it. *shrug*

 

[Big Woo]

Yes I was talking about the Turbonettics super 50 trim, sorry if there was some confusion. I talked to SBR about this turbo a few of weeks back for a customer. Specifically I asked what the difference was between the standard 50 trim and the super 50 trim, the responce I got was as follows. The exducer diameter on the super 50 trim is larger than the exducer diameter in the standard 50 trim, inducer diameters are the same. It was also stated that this allows the super 50 to achieve higher pressure ratios, but with the same 49 lbs/min flow rate. In the end I went with the standard 50 trim for this application.

 

[redrkt]

It also is very strange that the compressor map Bullseye gives for their Super 50 trim is identical to the compressor map for the Turbonetics Super 50 trim. However, the Bullseye Super 50 trim is supposedly larger at both the inducer and exducer than the Turbonetics Super 50 trim. How can a larger sized Super 50 trim(2.31"/3.30" vs 2.12"/3.20") that isn't even made by Turbonetics have the same compressor map as the smaller Turbonetics Super 50 trim?

Turbonetics Super 50 trim map and measurements:

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Who knows, maybe the Bullseye Super 50 trim is a remanufactured wheel? Who makes the Bullseye Super 50 trim if it's not Turbonetics? This just isn't making much sense to me.

 

[suicidal2af]

Its not the same size inducer for this turbo, it has a 2.31/3.30

According to those sizes, trim=49.

((2.31^2)/(3.30^2))*100=49

 

[1029TSG]

Using that formula, how can Turbonetics call that wheel a Super 50 trim when its more like a 43 trim? If a Garrett 50 trim is 49 lbs/min, why is their Super only rated at 47?

 

[suicidal2af]

Using that formula, how can Turbonetics call that wheel a Super 50 trim when its more like a 43 trim? If a Garrett 50 trim is 49 lbs/min, why is their Super only rated at 47?

That's kind of the point we're getting at here. Compressor trim is ((inducer diameter^2)/(exducer diameter^2))*100. If you follow the formula, the turbonetics super 50 works out to be about a 44 trim. As trim increases, airflow increases. At least, according to garrett. Given a similiar wheel design, this will hold true.

And if you apply it to the wheels in question...

Tnetics Super 50 = 47lb/min on a 44trim wheel.
Bullseye super 50 = 49lb/min on a 49trim wheel(same airflow as 50trim, but at a slightly higher PR)

Interesting to note here is that if you compare the compressor maps, they are *identical*, with the exception of the super 50 flowing the same air at the same efficiency at a slightly higher PR. Hell, even the shaft speeds are the same.

Of course, real world performance of a turbo often differs from its compressor map. See 60-1, for example.

 

[1029TSG]

The Super 50 compressor map must be bogus, I'll see what are Garrett rep says.

 

[ISUJakey]

The Super 50 compressor map must be bogus, I'll see what are Garrett rep says.

Were you able to find anything out?

 

[1029TSG]

They said "Anything from Turbonetics is @#&*#@#" but I'm not surprised.