ECMlink Need help with idle & 2150s

[ishnish]

@turbosax2 Post up an idle log

As promised, here's is a log. Ended up not getting time yesterday. Got the car to idle a little smoother but the fuel trims definitely need work. I also noticed that the ISC value changes as you mess with the mafcomp and dead times. Something that no one told me. Please help

 

[Kenny07]

As promised, here's is a log. Ended up not getting time yesterday. Got the car to idle a little smoother but the fuel trims definitely need work. I also noticed that the ISC value changes as you mess with the mafcomp and dead times. Something that no one told me. Please help

I've been trying to get my 1650 High Z's dialed in on pump gas for the past two months. I feel your pain man. My idle is rough and surges between 600-900 RPM. What has been working for me is zeroing out Deadtimes and using the latency that came with the injectors and imputing those into the DA table, after that ill slowly increase or decrease them based on STTF and LTFT, while also adjusting the SD table. Still not perfect by any means. Best of luck to you though, I'm not very familiar with Dsmlink but from what I can tell from your log, your AFREst and Wideband are way off, ISC position is off for target idle of 750RPM (which I'm sure you're aware of). I'm on speed density so I cant give you any pointers on MAF sliders.

 

[ishnish]

I've been trying to get my 1650 High Z's dialed in on pump gas for the past two months. I feel your pain man. My idle is rough and surges between 600-900 RPM. What has been working for me is zeroing out Deadtimes and using the latency that came with the injectors and imputing those into the DA table, after that ill slowly increase or decrease them based on STTF and LTFT, while also adjusting the SD table. Still not perfect by any means. Best of luck to you though, I'm not very familiar with Dsmlink but from what I can tell from your log, your AFREst and Wideband are way off, ISC position is off for target idle of 750RPM (which I'm sure you're aware of). I'm on speed density so I cant give you any pointers on MAF sliders.

Welcome to the pathetic club man
I have used the values given that came with the injectors actually. So that log above that I posted were the values given. So, because the car is required to be off (not idling) but connected to ecmlink in order to make changes to these values and save them, do you turn off the car everytime, change the values, and turn the car back on? Seems kind of tedious.. you're talking about the InjBatteryAdj values right? I just use the mafsliders and that's usually what changes my fuel trims. Yes the AFREst and wideband are off. I had to get going for work which is why I couldn't mess with it anymore. ISC position changes a lot when I mess with my fuel trims. Not sure if this is normal.

Thank you for your input man it's much appreciated. At least I'm not alone.

 

[boost97gst]

*This is from Turbosax (moderator), posted 5 years ago. Try something like this and see whats up.

Gas:
Global: -75.0%
Deadtime: 0usecs

Volts usecs
7 2418
9 1524
12 990
14 806
16 645
19 580


E85:
Global: -58.6%
Deadtime: -30usecs

Volts usecs
7 2485
9 1566
12 817
14 628
16 463
19 396

 

[ishnish]

*This is from Turbosax (moderator), posted 5 years ago. Try something like this and see whats up.

Gas:
Global: -75.0%
Deadtime: 0usecs

Volts usecs
7 2418
9 1524
12 990
14 806
16 645
19 580


E85:
Global: -58.6%
Deadtime: -30usecs

Volts usecs
7 2485
9 1566
12 817
14 628
16 463
19 396

Thank you but I already tried these values for pump (I run 91 here in Cali) and it more or less acted the same. The problem I have with these values is that I hear every set of 2150s are different. And because I have the sheet for my injectors, I jus figured it's best using my values since that's ideal. What I don't understand is why the Global values are messed with because I thought you're supposed to leave it alone when ecmlink calculates it.

On the other thread you stated my globals look a bit off from 5 to 7. Can you elaborate on what you're referring to here?

 

[Kenny07]

Welcome to the pathetic club man
I have used the values given that came with the injectors actually. So that log above that I posted were the values given. So, because the car is required to be off (not idling) but connected to ecmlink in order to make changes to these values and save them, do you turn off the car everytime, change the values, and turn the car back on? Seems kind of tedious.. you're talking about the InjBatteryAdj values right? I just use the mafsliders and that's usually what changes my fuel trims. Yes the AFREst and wideband are off. I had to get going for work which is why I couldn't mess with it anymore. ISC position changes a lot when I mess with my fuel trims. Not sure if this is normal.

Thank you for your input man it's much appreciated. At least I'm not alone.

Yes sir, I'll plug in the values in the InjBatteryADJ and start the car up, watch trims for 2-3 minutes then shut the car off and repeat the process. It's very tedious. I try to only tweak one variable at a time, either SD tables or Injector DA tables. My outcome will either be good fuel trims (+-5%) and my ISC is off by about 10-20, or ill get my isc/Airflow Per rev spot on and my AFRest to wideband will be way off, two steps forward one step back. Unfortunately, I cant seem to get rid of the surge, only make it less drastic. Haven't even been able to go for a cruise yet since every time I let off the throttle it stalls. All I can say is keep plugging away at it, Ive almost given up countless times and posted a part out on the classifieds, two months in and no progress sucks.

 

[ishnish]

Holy crap man, definitely don't give up. Hopefully the help I get on this thread will ultimately help you out. Did you have surge issues before the injector install? Have you done boost leak tests yet especially making sure to check around the throttle body area for leaks?

How do you know if the values need to go up or down and at what row (ex: 7 volt, 9 volt, 12 volt, ect)? And also how do you know by how much you need to increase or decrease those values? That is where I'm lost. I feel like I'm constantly guessing but not making logical sense of any of it. I'm mostly just reading tons of different articles and going by that but never encounter any explanations on what global, injBatteryAdj, deadtimes, etc actually do.

 

[Kenny07]

Holy crap man, definitely don't give up. Hopefully the help I get on this thread will ultimately help you out. Did you have surge issues before the injector install? Have you done boost leak tests yet especially making sure to check around the throttle body area for leaks?

How do you know if the values need to go up or down and at what row (ex: 7 volt, 9 volt, 12 volt, ect)? And also how do you know by how much you need to increase or decrease those values? That is where I'm lost. I feel like I'm constantly guessing but not making logical sense of any of it. I'm mostly just reading tons of different articles and going by that but never encounter any explanations on what global, injBatteryAdj, deadtimes, etc actually do.

I've been watching this thread since you posted it. Been hoping someone posts something I haven't tried yet. Seems like these High Zs don't like pump gas, I see people running them fine on E85, if I had that near me I would run it. Car ran like a dream before I swapped these 1650s in, I even swapped back a few days ago and it ran perfect. Boost leak test is done every time before I start tuning, overkill I know but its a sanity check. Holds up fine to 25PSI. Ive swapped out the throttle body countless times, resealed my bypass valve, replace the IAC/TPS, check OHMS, the works man haha.

Back on topic though. Its honestly just guessing, now there may be an actual way to tell, if there is, I don't know it, but all I have been doing is guessing. Sometimes I make good progress, other times its worse. I'll start with FICs data sheet, zero out Deadtimes and adjust global to the proper settings per the calculator, and I wont touch that. Most settings will be stock, except my timing tables (also running EVO 8 Tables) and a few others. On your log, if you log battery you can see what Volts its running, I think on yours it was high 12's low 13's which is exactly what mine is running. I'll go to my DA injector tables and start small, like 10-30 Usecs each time, only for 12V and 14V though, for the others ill adjust it by 5 or so. Now I'm no experienced tuner, so its guess work.
I've included my recent log to show you my settings, as you can see I have started adding deadtime to adjust my Fuel trims, but things are still not perfect so I will be zeroing those out and adding more time to DA Injector tables

 

[ishnish]

Jeez you've really tried as much as you could these. I'm sorry you're having to go through this as well.

Okay so you've used the data sheet for your injectors as well I see. I know people have used the values that Turbosax posted up and have had great luck with them, but even if I did have better luck with those, I feel like it would be wrong of me not to use what my sheet provided me because those are the values given. Sorry, I'm on a mac right now and cannot view your log yet but will definitely do so when I get home!
But I see you say you don't touch the global either when and just use what ecmlink tells you (79.3% I believe)

How do you know whether to add or subtract Usecs to the DA tables? What would I have to be looking at to determine whether I have to add or subtract on my current DA tables?

 

[Kenny07]

Jeez you've really tried as much as you could these. I'm sorry you're having to go through this as well.

Okay so you've used the data sheet for your injectors as well I see. I know people have used the values that Turbosax posted up and have had great luck with them, but even if I did have better luck with those, I feel like it would be wrong of me not to use what my sheet provided me because those are the values given. Sorry, I'm on a mac right now and cannot view your log yet but will definitely do so when I get home!
But I see you say you don't touch the global either when and just use what ecmlink tells you (79.3% I believe)

How do you know whether to add or subtract Usecs to the DA tables? What would I have to be looking at to determine whether I have to add or subtract on my current DA tables?

I cant speak to your log, but I'll show you what I will do with mine so you get an idea of my what I do. Like I said earlier, I'm no tuner, so if I am doing this wrong, please correct me.

As you can see in the picture I posted, I'm ruining rich. That's with 119Usec deadtimes as well. Somethings are good, somethings need to be tweaked. So (I believe) I need to remove some USECS from my DA table, maybe 5-10 in the 12-14v table (if it goes richer, I know i need to go the opposite direction). I will zero out the deadtimes, readjust my global to 1551CC's (FICs flow sheet) and log again and repeat. So to answer your question, when you see your STFT with a (-) that means the ECU is pulling that percentage of fuel, if its positive, its adding fuel. Postive = add deadtimes, Negative = remove deadtime.

 

[ishnish]

Very nice! Thank you for the picture and explanation. I believe you are correct in what you're doing. Right before you posted this, I ran across this articles which helped explain a lot!
https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/injbatadj#after_adjustment

I was confused about the negatives and positives at first but I THINK I got it now. Basically, when the ECU has a (-) percentage on the fuel (ex:STFT), it's running rich, but when (+), it's running lean. It's basically opposite. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

[Kenny07]

Yes, that is a very good link, and yes you are correct. Just remember, you're never going to get them exactly at zero, thats why + or - 5% is okay.

 

[ishnish]

Thank you very much. I'm gonna zero out everything and try to mess with the DA tables like you suggested and see how that goes. If I come across any solution or a better understanding of things, I'll be sure to reach out to you and help you out if I can. In the meantime, I hope you stay tuned into this thread in case I do get any extra help that may benefit you. Hang in there man.

 

[motomattx]

You guys are aware that generally the injector deadtimes from the manufacturer are added to the stock deadtimes? also bump up your ignition timing a little in those areas.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Thanks Kenny! With 2150s on gas, link runs out of room for any global adjustments past -80 anyway. On E85 there is still room for a wiggle here or there and they are workin well at idle and cruise (or were) for my car.
Thanks for all your help!
Marty

 

[Kenny07]

You guys are aware that generally the injector deadtimes from the manufacturer are added to the stock deadtimes? also bump up your ignition timing a little in those areas.

So at 12v's, FIC says my latency is 1300USECs, and stock is 915USEC. So I would change 12v to 2215usecs?

 

[motomattx]

Yup, it worked for me for the ones I did with chips for years.

 

[ishnish]

Are you sure that is correct? Seems very very high compared to the other guys who are running their 2150s..

 

[boost97gst]

I cant speak to your log, but I'll show you what I will do with mine so you get an idea of my what I do. Like I said earlier, I'm no tuner, so if I am doing this wrong, please correct me.

As you can see in the picture I posted, I'm ruining rich. That's with 119Usec deadtimes as well. Somethings are good, somethings need to be tweaked. So (I believe) I need to remove some USECS from my DA table, maybe 5-10 in the 12-14v table (if it goes richer, I know i need to go the opposite direction). I will zero out the deadtimes, readjust my global to 1551CC's (FICs flow sheet) and log again and repeat. So to answer your question, when you see your STFT with a (-) that means the ECU is pulling that percentage of fuel, if its positive, its adding fuel. Postive = add deadtimes, Negative = remove deadtime.

SOlid advice. I was looking at your better idle log and scratching my head to no end! I was like, WHAT is he running to have a global like that, deadtimes as such, and injbatteryadj table, on 2150s! Lol. Then, as i often do, i read your post . You're running 1650s. Nice idle log though. Your STFTs are clean, bouncing no more than 2%. You have your global/DT/and Injbattadj tables dialed in it would seem. Nice work.

*I've been outta the tuning game for years at this point, but it would seem that adding to your injbattadj in the column needed, essentially makes it more rich. It basically says so in the description on that page. This has lead me to pull some logs and find that, on E85, i need to drop my 12v from 939 by 6%. And, it seems to have worked. I'm rusty so if i'm dead wrong, call me on it

 

[motomattx]

Are you sure that is correct? Seems very very high compared to the other guys who are running their 2150s..

Takes a few seconds to try it out and see how it goes, might work might not.

 

[boost97gst]

This is truly weird. It's like you're running 60psi base fuel pressure or something. You're pig rich but your global is set to 80. On pump gas. Could a messed up o2 do this? I'm spitballing.

 

[ishnish]

Takes a few seconds to try it out and see how it goes, might work might not.

Doesn't hurt to try I guess. If I have time tomorrow this is what I'll do. Kenny, in the meantime, you should try it as well and report back.

I'm glad this thread is finally getting some input though. Thanks guys.

 

[ishnish]

This is truly weird. It's like you're running 60psi base fuel pressure or something. You're pig rich but your global is set to 80. On pump gas. Could a messed up o2 do this? I'm spitballing.

Are you addressing me?
If so, I doubt it's my o2 sensor. It's brand new practically. It's probably seen like 150 miles at the most. That would really suck if that's what it is but I doubt it. The new injectors is what made everything go haywire.

 

[boost97gst]

Are you addressing me?
If so, I doubt it's my o2 sensor. It's brand new practically. It's probably seen like 150 miles at the most. That would really suck if that's what it is but I doubt it. The new injectors is what made everything go haywire.

Yes, speaking to you sir. I'm comparing it with other logs and what's weird is the AFRest is saying you are running lean. Are you on a MAF? Try zeroing your deadtimes. Run for a few minutes(get it up to at least 180*. Check. Now, go in and start going NEGATIVE on your dead times.. Repeat. This is trial and error. Finally, go into INJbattadj and drop those numbers LOW. Write em down or whatever so you can reset them but drop your 12v and 14v by 50% just to see what it does. Do you have a AFPR with a trusty gauge? Assuming so.

I used to run my LC-1 alone, using NB sim. Was told by an old pro, years ago, that i should run stock o2 up front and do not use NB sim. I'm not sure i believe him tho . My point with this is, if you had a stock o2 to test, it certainly wouldn't hurt. Right? I'm suddenly gaining interest in DSMS again. Thanks man, i mean, i'm sorry you're having a bi*** of a time but this is interesting

 

[ishnish]

Yes, speaking to you sir. I'm comparing it with other logs and what's weird is the AFRest is saying you are running lean. Are you on a MAF? Try zeroing your deadtimes. Run for a few minutes(get it up to at least 180*. Check. Now, go in and start going NEGATIVE on your dead times.. Repeat. This is trial and error. Finally, go into INJbattadj and drop those numbers LOW. Write em down or whatever so you can reset them but drop your 12v and 14v by 50% just to see what it does. Do you have a AFPR with a trusty gauge? Assuming so.

I used to run my LC-1 alone, using NB sim. Was told by an old pro, years ago, that i should run stock o2 up front and do not use NB sim. I'm not sure i believe him tho . My point with this is, if you had a stock o2 to test, it certainly wouldn't hurt. Right? I'm suddenly gaining interest in DSMS again. Thanks man, i mean, i'm sorry you're having a bi*** of a time but this is interesting

HAH, I'm glad that my dilemma here has peaked your interest and causing you to fall back on these lovely obnoxious little cars

I am on a MAF correct. I will zero out my deadtimes and try to adjust my values again. Usually, the lower I go on my deadtimes, the worse my idle gets. But I'll try it though. It's weird because my InjBatteryAdj values are already pretty low compared to anyone I've seen running 2150s and you're suggesting to go even lower and then I have another user telling me to add the values given on my log sheet ON TOP of the stock values already for the car . And yes I have an afpr and a trusty gauge. Matter of fact, that afpr was installed a few weeks ago and probably has about 30-40 miles on it at the most.

I run the LC-1 wideband alone at the stock o2 location simulating NB as well.