Need a new turbo, don't want 16g.

[X|Crescens]

I am looking into getting a new turbo for my 95 awd talon. I have all supporting mods: 550cc injectors, s-afc II, FMIC. My FMIC piping is setup for the stock turbo setup. Where the outlet on the intake side is facing the passenger side. Since I want to keep my IC piping setup this way I don't want to get a 16g turbo because I would have to change the pipe route. I was looking at turbos that have the outlet in the intake side facing the passenger and all I pretty much found was an FP Green turbo. I would consider buying it but it is a little pricey. Is there any other options that I should know about? I also want it to fit the stock maniford, and be internally gated. This will be bolted up to a evo III ported o2 housing. Thanks for your input!

 

[96_charcoal_tsi]

What kind of power ar you looking for? If you are not looking for rediculous power, the first thing that came to mind was the fp big t28. Also note most downflowing turbo's can have an elbow welded on to be pointing the same as the t-25.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

You can still get a 16g, and get a j-pipe that has a 90* to where it mimics the oem outlet. You will probably have to custom make a j-pipe for it though. Honestly, you will kick yourself for doing it this way, and not getting a proper drivers-passengers flowing front mount though. All that piping will really increase pressure drop, and only hinder your cars performance.

 

[X|Crescens]

The kind of power I was looking for was to get into the 12's. I was also thinking of getting rid of the S AFC-II and getting a DSM Link since I have an eprom ECU. To go with that I would get 1000cc injectors and I was thinking of using ethanol. There isn't anything wrong with the intercooler I have now, and honestly I don't want to do the work or put in the money to do a new intercooler and new piping. I don't have excessive ic piping so I don't have an increase in pressure drop.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

ethanol + an evo3 16g (legit MHI) will drop you in the 12's, possibly 11's, with no issues granted you can drive and launch correctly. DSMlink will help GREATLY with the tuning front because of its timing control and ability to log other inputs as well (wideband, MAP sensor).

 

[X|Crescens]

I don't want to get an EVO III turbo because of how my FMIC and piping is setup. I looked, but I can't seem to find this j-pipe with a 90* elbow.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

You won't, thats why I said you have to get a custom one made.

 

[Splitpi]

Your 550's are your limiting factor. You'll never make full use of an EVO 16G using the 550's with out going excessively lean due to 100+% Duty Cycle.

Use this formula to get you into the ballpark of what the engine will produce given the injector size, Duty Cycle and BSFC (individual engine specific , but ~.55 to .65 for Turbo engines).

HP = (Number of Cylinders) * (((Injector Size in CC/min)/10.5) * (Duty Cycle)/(BSFC))

i.e.
HP = 4 * ((550/10.5) * (.8)/(.65)) = 258 HP With .65 BSFC
HP = 4 * ((550/10.5) * (.8)/(.55)) = 305 HP With .55 BSFC
RC Fuel Injection

BSFC is the measure of the engines efficiency. It is the rate of fuel consumption measured to the rate of power consumption. Basically, its a guess until you have the car dynoed and you know exact power you are producing and measured fuel usage. Then its a close figure ... but different fuel produce different power... so it will only be exact at the instance measured.... but you have an idea of how efficient your engine is producing power. With that said, I tried to show the power range of an efficient (.55) and an inefficient (.65) engine to get you an idea of what you could expect from 550 cc injectors.

You can read up on BSFC here.

So in my opinion, I would just go with a cheap used 14b. And even then you'll be close to maxing it out.

 

[daren_p]

A 16g should work with your setup & chould get you into the 12's no problem. Get a jpipe that exits on the passenger side of the front torque mount (RRE style) & then get a silicone elbow. Should bolt right up to your current IC pipes. If the jpipe is too long for your perticular setup, cut it off where need be & get the end bead rolled again. 16g is probably the best match if 12's are your power goal, no point in getting a huge turbo that you won't use it's full potential & just add's alot of spool time. 550's will probably be a limiting factor even on the evoIII. As for turbo choices, you can also go with any of the other Mitsu style bolt on's that have a down firing compressor housing (such as the FP Green) & then just get a 90 elbow welded on or once again use a silicon elbow (I prefer the silicone elbow as its not as perminant, so you can easily change your setup if need be & haven't limited your potential buyers if you sell the turbo in the future).

On a side not one of the local guys has run 11.6-11.8 many times on his basically stock 1g setup (with all the standard supporting mods) with 272 cams & meth injection on the evoIII turbo. Believe he ran some 11.8's (or for sure did some high 11's) with stock cams as well.

 

[alice]

I certainly agree with daren_p on that one. There are a few guys around my area doing some impressive things with their EVO 3 Big 16g. I am in the same boat as you however as I am undecided between the EVO 3 Big 16g and the SBR G50. I am leaning more towards the SBR G50 because it has as much if not much more potential than the 16g. My goals are that same as yours also - low to mid 12's at about 22psi would be nice. I have DSMlink, PTE 880s, AFPR, Hallman pro MBC, and 255 pump so I can certainly handle lots of flow. If you get link (highly recommended), you can control any injectors you throw at it allowing for upgrades in the future. Also, like other are saying, you can have an elbow welded on or just use a silicone couples with a couple of T-bolt clamps. The SBR G50 is a downward firing turbo so couplers or welded elbow would certainly work for you. Hope this helps some!! -Jeremy

 

[92lzerNA]

gets a set of bigger injectors and go with a 20g or a 50trim. But as others have said I see no reason why you would have to change your pipping setup with a 16g and a 2g instale kit.

 

[JayRolla]

I certainly agree with daren_p on that one. There are a few guys around my area doing some impressive things with their EVO 3 Big 16g. I am in the same boat as you however as I am undecided between the EVO 3 Big 16g and the SBR G50. I am leaning more towards the SBR G50 because it has as much if not much more potential than the 16g. My goals are that same as yours also - low to mid 12's at about 22psi would be nice. I have DSMlink, PTE 880s, AFPR, Hallman pro MBC, and 255 pump so I can certainly handle lots of flow. If you get link (highly recommended), you can control any injectors you throw at it allowing for upgrades in the future. Also, like other are saying, you can have an elbow welded on or just use a silicone couples with a couple of T-bolt clamps. The SBR G50 is a downward firing turbo so couplers or welded elbow would certainly work for you. Hope this helps some!! -Jeremy

If you run e85 on the 16g you can get pretty much the same performance as a 50trim with better spool. After riding in a e85 16g and then jumping in a 50 trim car, you start to notice the little power gained is not worth the spool lost.

 

[92lzerNA]

If you run e85 on the 16g you can get pretty much the same performance as a 50trim with better spool. After riding in a e85 16g and then jumping in a 50 trim car, you start to notice the little power gained is not worth the spool lost.

Thats a good point, but there is a point where the e16g will start to fall off up top. So the spool gained isnt worth the loss in top end power IMO. Or does the e85 help it still make power in the upper rpm when the e16g starts run out of flow.

 

[2gGSX]

If you run e85 on the 16g you can get pretty much the same performance as a 50trim with better spool. After riding in a e85 16g and then jumping in a 50 trim car, you start to notice the little power gained is not worth the spool lost.

I'm willing to bet a 50 trim on that same E85 16g car will make more power than the "other" 50 trim car.

 

[JayRolla]

I'm willing to bet a 50 trim on that same E85 16g car will make more power than the "other" 50 trim car.

Yes that is the problem with the 16g, my brother cant get his e85 powered 16g car to hold more than 22psi. Just spikes then drops but an external wastegate helps a bunch in boost control.

I also agree the 50trim will make more power, but some like the spool better on a DD. If I could go back and rebuy I probably would have gotten a 50 trim or larger.

 

[Module Unknown]

I don't want to get an EVO III turbo because of how my FMIC and piping is setup. I looked, but I can't seem to find this j-pipe with a 90* elbow.

That's because it's an additional piece... Now I'm not saying you should get a 16G or anything, I just want you to be aware that a 16G, 18G, or bastard 20G can easily follow the stock IC piping route. Ex. Slowboy's 2G 16G install kit provides all the necessary hardware, see here.

If you look at the link above, the image will show the "elusive 90* elbow" which is actually an additional piece that attaches to the end of the j-pipe, often referred to as an "L" pipe because of it's shape. This directs the air from the j-pipe off towards the passenger side and directly into the stock sidemount intercooler. In fact, that piece would end where the stock braided lower intercooler pipe/hose mates to the sidemount. Assuming your current intercooler setup follows the stock routing, I'm willing to bet you have a pipe that ends there.

There are plenty of vendors that include that pipe in their 2G install kits, SBR was jsut the first that popped into my head so I used theirs as an example. Now you have more options.

 

[X|Crescens]

Thanks for the link, I guess I am able to get a 16g after all.

 

[BaileyBoy]

no trying to hijack this thread but i have been trying to find some good comparison info for the g50 vs. evo316g. Where in the revs will I be able to see 21-22 psi in each of these turbos?? And I have been hearing the g50 makes a good daily driver....even better gas mileage than the e316g or was someone just talkin out their ass??

 

[JOEY A]

HKS 272s with my evoIII pulled very hard


22psi on pump gas, 26psi on race to be safe....


I would run meth, very worth it

 

[JOEY A]

If I wasnt going larder than a 35R id def go with a GT30 for a inbetween turbo...But there not cheap