Need a new oil pump, or something else?

[Mace4877]

6 bolt engine in a 2g,bought it without a head. Got it home, prepped the block and the head, installed the headgasket (permatorque MLS and Arp L19's) Timed it and retimed it. Balance shaft deleted before I got the car, and a kiggley HLA installed. Now that you all have the information, long story short im not getting ANY oil pressure to the head. I noticed right after we started it that the squirters from the lifters weren't lubricating the cams. I took off the HLA, blew compressed air into all of the holes, took out ALL of the oil plugs on the head, and nothing. no oil coming up to it. The head has been resurfaced, but is still in spec. When I blow into the middle hole where the HLA is at, I can hear the air in the bottom of the block. when blown into the rearmost hole, it blows out of the squirters onto the intake cam, and when I blow into the frontmost hole, it blows out of the squirters for the exhaust cam. So I don't think that the oil passages are blocked in the head. What else will cause this? Dropping the pan and inspecting the pickup after class today. We will see what I find. Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[SaulHudson]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html

Is this done?

Is it 6 bolt or 7 bolt head?
If 7 bolt this also applies
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341625-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod-2-a.html

 

[BogusSVO]

Saul beat me to posting the links.

Mace, What is the head thickness, you say it is spec, what was the measurement?

Have you dropped the timing belt and spun the oil pump? if so what was the oil gauge reading?

What was the failure on the head to pull it in the first place?

When was the oil pan off last?

 

[Mace4877]

Thanks for the quick replies guys. Ive seen both of your mods bogus, and honestly I wish I would've seen them before I installed the head the first time. I don't have a measurement for you, but was told by the previous owner (literally 2 months ago) that the head had been milled .005 "to be safe" after he blew a headgasket. He never put the head back on, and that's how my wife and I came to get the car. So we are still in the "getting to know you" phase. If it comes down to taking the head off, I will let you know for sure what the measurement is. We are taking the timing components back off tonight after I get home as well as dropping the pan to look for contaminants and a possibly clogged pickup. I had the car running last weekend (4-5) times in 2-5 minute periods at idle, and nothing else seems out of the norm other than the lifters aren't squirting oil onto the cams. Im running stock gauge and sending unit off of the OFH btw. Oil pressure jumps about midway at startup and drops to almost nonexistent at idle (which from what I've read on here has come to be normal). 6 bolt engine/head btw.

 

[BogusSVO]

When you drop the pan, pull the OFH.

Remove the big gold colored bolt, and inspect the spring and plunger for ease of movement.

If the spring is weak, or the plunger is hung up, you could be in By-pass, allowing the oil to drop back into the pan, instead of being forced thu the engine.

 

[Fullthrottle7]

Awesome for you to get the perfect wiseman to respond right away for a post like this!! My builder also neglected to ream the headbolt holes on my 2g head while installing on a 6 bolt with the larger ARP studs so this weekend I will be pulling that corner stud to either shave the bolt a little, or to install a stock 6 bolt stud. Still unsure as to which course to take but either way, you may try one of those methods before pulling your entire head. Likely the tear drop port will be ok, but if you have ARPs in that block then you have 0.0025" clearance if memory serves to flow enough for all of those lifters and potentially your turbo if it is also still being fed from the stock head feed.

Good luck getting her fixed up quickly!

 

[Mace4877]

I guess that depends on what you call "weak". I can squeeze it down between my fingers with ease. I'm gonna go grab the OFH off of the other 6 bolt that I have laying around here and see if it doesn't work...

 

[craig4g63]

Then that is your problem. The stock 1g turbo ofh spring binds at 40 lbs. You won't be able to exert this force with your fingers.

Watch jaffromobile's YouTube video on oil filter housings.

 

[Mace4877]

Just swapped housings with a known good one and nothing. The good one is an air cooled housing and doesn't have the spring and still isn't pushing oil. Both filter housings filled the filter though, so i obviously have pressure. It might just be a matter of having ENOUGH pressure... Gonna pull the pan and see what I can see and possibly order a new housing.

Well, I took the oil feed line out of the OFH, and I get a little bit of oil pressure while spinning the pump with a drill. So I took the OFH off completely and spun the pump with a drill and got quite a bit more pressure but not like what I was expecting. It came out of the housing and went to about the tire. To end the night and completely update the progress, I'm about 9/10 of the way done with pulling the pan off. I stopped for the night with the downpipe on the ground and the t-case almost off. I'll keep you all updated as more progress is made.

 

[Mace4877]

I dug back in today and removed the t-case, pan, pickup, front case, and pump. Everything looks extremely clean. Does anyone have an idea of what the clearance is supposed to be between the oil pump gears? And bogus, if this doesn't work, I'm going to slap it all back together and pull the head. Im planning on getting a 7 bolt head to put on it, so what should I tell the machinist to bore the stud holes to?

 

[Mace4877]

Sorry for the delay in posting as i make progress. Ive been swamped lately. As of right now, i have gotten both oil mods on the head done as bogus advised, checked my oil pump (which is still well in spec), and checked my galleys with air to see if i could spot a blockage. What i found today is mildly disturbing that i haven't previously noticed. There are NO oil squirters in this block. Secondly there isn't a plug in where the squirters should sit. So in my theory, all of the pressure is just dumping back into the pan from the galley instead of traveling up the block to the oil hole in the head where it is supposed to.... right? I used a can of wd40 and sprayed down into the oil port and it ran straight out of the squirter hole next to #4. So could i just need to get oil squirters to fix my problem?

 

[bryanwheat]

Sorry for the delay in posting as i make progress. Ive been swamped lately. As of right now, i have gotten both oil mods on the head done as bogus advised, checked my oil pump (which is still well in spec), and checked my galleys with air to see if i could spot a blockage. What i found today is mildly disturbing that i haven't previously noticed. There are NO oil squirters in this block. Secondly there isn't a plug in where the squirters should sit. So in my theory, all of the pressure is just dumping back into the pan from the galley instead of traveling up the block to the oil hole in the head where it is supposed to.... right? I used a can of wd40 and sprayed down into the oil port and it ran straight out of the squirter hole next to #4. So could i just need to get oil squirters to fix my problem?

Yes, find some oil squirters and install them. The oil squirters are right off the main oil passage in the block. It is good that you caught that, because it would of ruined the engine if you would of started it like that.

 

[Mace4877]

Thanks for the quick reply. I think i am going to pull the ones out of the "race" cars 6 bolt and see where it gets me. I can't believe i didn't notice it before . I can't stand when a post isn't followed up on with a solution, so i should either know by tonight or tomorrow if this did in fact fix my problem.

 

[Mace4877]

The problem is resolved. It all just basically chocked up to having no oil squirters installed.