My old highschool car

[awdtsi_90]

Thank you gary!!!!! I will let you know.

Here are pics of them and it's pulling up dephini low resistance but...

I will take these to work with me and have then tested with a multimeter to figure out if they are high or low to make sure.

The removal is pretty easy, but when you put the new injectors back in it's not real easy to get everything lined up - all the injectors going straight into all 4 holes nicely so that the seals don't get banged up. You have to be careful with that and it's hard to even see it all at once. And you have to have the correct seals for the injectors.

Your bigger injectors that you have, I don't know if they take the same type of electrical plug. Sometimes they don't. That is something you should get all figured out before you even start to take anything apart. On my car, when I put in 850cc FIC injectors, they used the stock connectors so I didn't have to change that. And I ordered them with seals so I had them. And I smeared the rubber seals with Molykote 111 Compound which is that silicone compound (kind of like a grease) that I use on just about any rubber thing that I put together, and on my thermostat housing gasket and bolts, and in a few other places. I think most people just smear the rubber seals with motor oil.

If it turns out that the injectors need a different type of electrical plug, I'm pretty sure you will be able to buy the right plugs that are already made up with pigtails (wires several inches long) which makes it easier. That's what they did on my car at ER when they put in 1650cc FIC injectors, they cut the old connectors off the harness and crimped on new connectors that had pigtails.


Wow.
I was in OKC for a week in late October last year and we did some tornado dodging. Spent a few minutes in the tornado shelter watching weather updates.

I'm sure you were ready to get back to Washington. Me and the wife will go outside and watch the storms on the coverd deck. Kids think we're crazy and probably our neighbors to

 

[awdtsi_90]

havnt done much and not taken the injectors to work with me forgetting . Had a water heater burst Monday and it's been a shit show of a week so far . Here is our weather tho and it's to cold to work on anything outside

 

[We're on Boost]

Here is our weather tho and it's to cold to work on anything outside

-5 Degrees F, that's what the mean daily temperature was at this time of year 40,000 years ago in northern France when the Neanderthals died out. The H. Sapiens and interbreeds that were there either migrated out, or died out.
Just thought you should know
They weren't working on their cars either, you can be sure of that!

 

[awdtsi_90]

That's wild, It makes me so appreciative for housing, food, & electricity for heating and cooling! Indoor plumbing also haha

 

[awdtsi_90]

Good news, Its definitely fuel related!

Replaced the injector that is closest to the driver side and it made a world of difference. Still a slight fuel hesitation so I will be putting thr 1,000 in with the new fuel pump when I get funds for the fpr and install kit

The injector I switched it out with was a old 450 & didn't do all of them as I was trying to rule out each thing and not put a bad injector in and somewhere else then have that be thrown in. This injector I replaced wasn't ticking like the others, which is why I replaced that one for a test.

The 1,000 injectors I have were never once installed so..
With that being said will they be good to plug & play or do I need to send them out to get tested & cleaned with it being 5+ years of them sitting?

Also I have a log about to be posted

here is the log, had some hesitation at times but nothing like it was and is under throttle but not all the time. Its drivable and it will build boost.

 

[We're on Boost]

Replaced the injector that is closest to the driver side and it made a world of difference.

That's awesome. That means your ecu is probably fine (both of them) and your CAS is fine and a lot of the other stuff we suspected is probably fine. Fine!
Sounds like you replaced injector in cylinder #1 only.
In post #228 you found that cylinder #2 was the worst one, and #1 was also bad.
So I think the next thing to try would be to replace the injector in cylinder #2.
That would keep up the 1 thing at a time and it seems like it should make a difference!

In the log I see it is still running lean. That's based on the CombinedFT having still very high numbers whenever you are in closed loop, and based on the O2 voltage being 0 most of the time. The O2 does woop up to 0.8 volts after 4,000 rpm on heavy throttle so it's not completely dead lean, but it is too lean.
Maybe if the injector in #2 was replaced it wouldn't be so lean. Maybe those fuel trims would come down and it would run better.
It would probably be best to have 4 properly working 450cc injectors in there while we are trying to adjust the MAFcomp.
Get a reasonable MAFcomp, then put in the 1000cc.
Rather than going directly from what you have now to 1000cc, and then trying to adjust MAFcomp.
But either way it looks like it will work out ok pretty soon now.

 

[awdtsi_90]

This morning i went to take the talon to work and it had alot more hestitation than yesterday(on first start up it was audible like a subie), Once it warmed up i left but i just turned around and went home as it never cleared up and I didnt want to be shut down 20 minutes from home on the highway. I did make a log and no dtc or anything popped up either. Im assuming its from it being colder maybe or from it settling back yesterday and the 2nd injector now is time to replace. I will get the 2nd injector replaced today and see.how that dose

 

[We're on Boost]

Yeah hopefully it's the 2nd injector. The injector that you put into #1, is it one of the 450's I sent you last year?
How's it going with getting the injectors and fuel rail put back together? Ok?
The fuel filter! What about that? It could be letting dirt through, could be torn. That might be why the injectors are bad in the first place. Or else the injectors might just have corrosion, or a failing mechanism.
Oh I see looking back that you did replace the old fuel filter last year, and schussed the old fuel out of the lines. Well that's good phew.

 

[awdtsi_90]

Good news!! Car has not ran this good since I have had it back!!!!! The 2nd injector was the other culprit, so I am sure the other 2 are not far behind with going bad.

Yes Gary I have used 2 of the blue top 450s you sent me. I havnt made a log yet tho

It wasnt to bad to pull the rail and injectors off tbh. After i did it the first time it went pretty quick this 2nd time.

Yes, I have switched out the fuel filter twice. This is what the fuel rail looked like when I pulled injector 2 out. So when I send the injectors in will clean the fuel rail out.

The 1,000 cc I have are low impedance which below is a pic of them on a multimeter.
I am not sure when I will be switching them out due to money and not having a FPR but i am going to send in a set of the 450 in to be cleaned and it will give me time to make sure everything is working and where it's suppose to be for reliable and healthy happy car before I do fuel upgrade & turn boost up.

From my research the black tops are better then the blue tops right. Which set should I send in? Which color top would be best ?

The blue tops have 1 spray pattern where the black have 2 on the bottom of injector

 

[awdtsi_90]

 

[We're on Boost]

The car sounds good! Does it really only have 92,000 miles on it?

Good news!! Car has not ran this good since I have had it back!!!!! The 2nd injector was the other culprit, so I am sure the other 2 are not far behind with going bad.

Yes Gary I have used 2 of the blue top 450s you sent me. I havnt made a log yet tho

It wasnt to bad to pull the rail and injectors off tbh. After i did it the first time it went pretty quick this 2nd time.

This is awesome!
I think all 4 of the injectors I sent will be about the same, about equal. They were working fine in my car and the car never sat for a long time without being used when those injectors were in it.

The 1,000 cc I have are low impedance which below is a pic of them on a multimeter.

Yeah 2.1 ohms is about right for low impedance.

i am going to send in a set of the 450 in to be cleaned

The 450's that you are taking out of the car right now might not even be worth cleaning. From the rust in the hole where the #2 was sitting it looks like the car sat for a long time at some point before you got it back. Those injectors might be in poor shape beyond just cleaning. I really don't know what to think about it.

From my research the black tops are better then the blue tops right. Which set should I send in? Which color top would be best ?

Oh I didn't even know about the black top injectors. So I don't know. I would probably go with the set that seems to be in the best condition, worth saving. The 450's I sent you might not even need cleaning. Usually the guys that are getting their injectors cleaned about every other year are running E85. Or they are trying to use injectors that were sitting with gas in the rail in an unused car for 10 years or something like that. So I really don't know, I mean if money is short. I don't know how expensive a cleaning you have in mind. Darn shipping is getting expensive, and USPS isn't what it used to be. I'll never send a package by USPS again. The 1000's you have are apparently ready to use as is. I still have the FIC 850cc low impedance injectors that English Racing took out of my car in 2016. Those were only in my car for a couple thousand miles and never had E85 or anything beyond 92 octane E10. Those would be worth cleaning (and new seals) to re-use and there again they probably don't even need cleaning. But with 850cc the potential to make a lot of power is there so you have to be more fastidious about all this kind of stuff. With 450cc and stock fuel pump and stock fuel pressure, you'll be near stock power no matter what else you do. So the potential for damage is less, especially since your knock sensor works and you are logging it.
I think probably a wideband is the best thing to put some money into right about now or soon. Even that is a bunch of problems. But the wideband will be needed even more when you put in bigger injectors. It all costs money to solve the problems in a good way. Boo Hoo!
If you are going to run 450s for a while so as to delay doing all these more expensive things, then getting them cleaned and flow tested by somebody is probably a fair way to keep near term costs down and be relatively safe.

As if that isn't enough spaghetti, here's one more. I don't think V3Lite has built in boost control. I don't see a Boost tab in your logs. The V3 to V3Lite Product Comparison is ambiguous about it. But I think you are going to need a boost controller pretty soon. If it was me, I'd do the upgrade to full V3 and buy the Ingersoll Rand boost control solenoid, and that's another bunch of stuff. Do you have a boost controller of some kind?

 

[awdtsi_90]

I do not have any boost controller. The bulls eye turbo is internally gated from my understanding.

The injectors i will be dropping off here at https://www.advancedinjector.com They are 25 min drive from me. I will call them and see if the rust filled injectors are worth cleaning, If not i am going to be sending the ones you sent me, which are in a lot better shape than mine are .

Yes i am going to keep it in this form for a while because money is short, this is my daily driver as i was borrowing a car from my parents . Thankfully they had a spare that was just sitting there. Its almost time for me to ride the bike.

A wideband gauge is in my future if i keep the car. I do have new ultra-light 2 gauges in boost & oil pressure that are nice in box still unopened. And i have a triple gauge pod pillar i snagged for when i get the wideband i will switch out the gauges in the talon now from just being so old .

No the car has over 200,000 miles on body. That gauge cluster is from a 93 with abs. The yellow light on my gauge cluster is for anti-lock because my 90 doesn't have it. It would be awesome if the car only had 90,000 miles . I would have a gem .

The car really is not a bad car. Yes it sit for a while but the motor, turbo, rack & pinon steering & suspension have less then 5,000 miles on them. When i sold the car it had an act 6 puck clutch and a lightweight flywheel installed when everything else was done. I think my pedal assembly might be messed up and is why the clutch feels stock, or it is just a stock clutch.
If he switched out the tranny he didn't transfer them, its the pedal assembly or just a stock clutch . But it shifts fine just doesn't have the stiffness it should for a 6 puck act.
He has told he has then turned around and also that he hasn't pulled out tranny so i have no idea what he did after i sold it to him other than it sit for 10 years and he put dsm link on it. .

Either way I may me trying to sell the car for $5,000 or $5500 for everyhting i have which is a lot for it. spare parts, new parts. Even a new 90 hood that has stickers and everything still on the bottom looking new. It just has dirt and needs outside scrubbed to look new again. No damage but idk what ill do.

I am wanting a 2014-2018 kia soul for a daily driver which i can get one for about 6g here Then again i dont want to sell this and i might keep it but as a daily i dont think its as good as a kia soul with less then 100k miles then 25 years newer would be. If i had a daily car & more money i would keep it for sure.

IDK what i am doing tbh. Time will tell but if anyone is interested lmk

I am going to wash the talon this week tho and get her looking all nice and clean for the daily driving to start!!!!!!!!!

 

[We're on Boost]

Actually you probably still have the stock boost control system. Either that, or the previous person might have put in a manual boost controller.
We could figure it out by looking at the hose that attaches to the canister that actuates the wastegate on the turbo. You could follow the hose from the canister and see where it goes.
Glad you have that local place where you could get injectors cleaned and flow measured. Looks like it's probably a good place.

 

[awdtsi_90]

Everything is still going good! Will get a log posted soon. had a issue with my laptop so I havnt been able to log one yet but everything seems to be doing good!

 

[awdtsi_90]

Taking the fuel injectors to get cleaned and flow tested sat and will be picking then up Monday or Tuesday.

I am taking the fuel rail into work tomorow to clean in our tanks.

Here is pics of the rail. The worst was on the driver side and passenger wasn't as bad.

 

[We're on Boost]

Taking the fuel injectors to get cleaned and flow tested sat and will be picking then up Monday or Tuesday.

I am taking the fuel rail into work tomorow to clean in our tanks.

Here is pics of the rail. The worst was on the driver side and passenger wasn't as bad.

Oh wow. Well, glad you got that thing out of there.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I am excited to get it all cleaned up and hopefully that will allow me to work on the tune once we know everything is running smoothly which i believe it will fix the lean issue. Stock is the best way to go untill more funds for the fpr with install kit & wideband gauge. It was far cheaper to clean the stock injectors you sent me gary. Thank you so much again. It is $24 to clean and flow test each injector so cant really beat that.

I am using the blue tops because the black ones that were originally in talon when looking down the injector you could see rust all in there so the blue tops you sent is by far the better choice .

Also every once in a while the knock sensor would read and i do beilve it is from the rust filled injectors and fuel rail after getting them off and looking at everything.

 

[We're on Boost]

I am excited to get it all cleaned up and hopefully that will allow me to work on the tune once we know everything is running smoothly which i believe it will fix the lean issue. Stock is the best way to go untill more funds for the fpr with install kit & wideband gauge. It was far cheaper to clean the stock injectors you sent me gary. Thank you so much again. It is $24 to clean and flow test each injector so cant really beat that.

I am using the blue tops because the black ones that were originally in talon when looking down the injector you could see rust all in there so the blue tops you sent is by far the better choice .

Also every once in a while the knock sensor would read and i do beilve it is from the rust filled injectors and fuel rail after getting them off and looking at everything.

Sounds good, I'm glad it's coming together!

 

[awdtsi_90]

here is what the fuel rail looks like now. I am hoping to pick up the injectors tomorrow or Tuesday.

 

[We're on Boost]

here is what the fuel rail looks like now. I am hoping to pick up the injectors tomorrow or Tuesday.

Rail looks good. How did you clean it out inside?

 

[awdtsi_90]

I used our chemical tank to help break down and clear everything out, then once I soaked it for about 30 seconds I got a wire wheel brush and scrubed the inside and put it back in the tank for another 30 seconds then pulled it out and rinsed it out thoroughly to make sure I got all the solution out of rail.

 

[awdtsi_90]

got the injectors and they are ready to go. I got new new rubber seals for bottom with them

 

[We're on Boost]

got the injectors and they are ready to go. I got new new rubber seals for bottom with them

I like how they did the test sheet. It's really clear about the before and after condition. Looks like they were pretty good before and now they are about as perfect as you can get. Nice!

 

[awdtsi_90]

I am excited to get them and the rail back in then drive it. On my first drive i will do a log and was there anything i should do or adjust before the log? Should i put the injector size to 475cc instead of 450 or just keep it as it? Should i keep the timing and min and max tables that we changed or switch those back to stock if their is no more knock being detected?

When we changed those we were making it less aggresive and safer right?

 

[We're on Boost]

Should i put the injector size to 475cc instead of 450 or just keep it as it?

Just keep that at 450cc.

Should i keep the timing and min and max tables that we changed or switch those back to stock if their is no more knock being detected?

Don't change the timing tables back to stock. The timing where we left off with it is safe (less aggressive than stock) and it's probably closer to what we want than the stock timing is. The stock timing is too aggressive when you are getting boost higher than stock.

MAFComp I think should be changed, because it's goofy with the -10.2 in the Global Scalar blank. That whole page should go back to a sensible starting point. I think you should change it back to 0.0 Global Scalar, Hacked 1g MAF, Use Template, and unchecked box for disable maf comp w SD.
That's just the most basic hacked 1g MAF setup. We might not need to make it richer than that now that the injectors and rail are cleaned up, or we might need to, but we can tell in a hurry by looking at the Fuel Trims in a log that has some driving in it.
So the MAFComp page, I would change it back to this: