my broken engine story

[adidas5482]

Driving home from the auto show 2 weeks ago my 99 gst kept dying and making loud ticking noises. I immediatly took the car to the dealer and dropped it off. In the morning they called me and said the noise was rod knock and I needed a new short block. I then took the car to AMS for a second opinion. They too confirmed that the noise was rod knock due to a spun bearing. I agreed to let them install a new 99 short block 7 bolt motor. A little over a week later they were finished. I picked up my car with the bill totaling 5300 for the new short block, 2100 clutch and street tune. I took the car home and noticed that it wanted to die in between shifts. Once I pulled into my driveway and got out and heard the same dreaded noise that I heard the night of the auto show when my car first broke. I immediatly called AMS and they advised me to check the oil then bring the car in if the noise continues. After letting the car cool down I noticed the engine was about a quart low on oil. I topped it off and didn't drive the car for the rest of the night. The following morning I go outside to warm up my car and about 2 minutes after starting the car I hear the noise again! My car then limped to work while constantly stalling out. The moment I got to work I called up AMS again. They told me to stop driving the car and have it towed to them which is what I did. About 7 o clock they call me and say that I spun 2 balance shaft bearings and the block must have been defective from the factory. They then give me 2 options.

1. They will remove the balance shafts with their eliminator kit for free.
2. They can send the block back to mitsubishi and have it exchanged but they will still charge me labor again to take out and reinstall the block.

I asked them if it was a good idea to eliminate the balance shafts when they were working on my car and they advised me that it was not a good idea on this car. This is the reason I don't want to go with option 1.
Option 2 is also out of the question because I'm broke and didn't even have the $5300 let alone spend another $2000.
Basically I want to cry. I'm in school right now and just don't have the money for all this.
You guys can check out my mod list. Basically I have an evo 16g with all the supporting mods. The engine internals are all stock and Ams has done all the tuning on my car. I don't want any simpathy, just some advise on what I should do. I know my mom is very upset that I spent this much money (half of which I borrowed from her). She is going to call the shop tomorrow, but what do you guys think about the situation. I mean I drove the car for 10 miles and it broke....I don't care what kind of mods you have on a car, it should last more than 10 miles!

 

[mitsu_1ggsx]

The fact they didn't Notice what seemed to be part of the original problem is their fault. Aside from the fact that the block wasn't effective. Why should you have to pay more for their mistake. It's one thing if you're talkin 50 bucks of labor for a bad part that you bought but when it comes to something like that, no way you should have to pay labor again. Play the role of a prick customer to the manager, it'll get ya what you need :laugh:

 

[kreepscort]

did they say why it wasnt a good idea to take out the balance shafts? from what ive read and heard, removing the balance shafts is a good idea. The reason is because if the balance shaft belt breaks, it can take your timing belt along with it. This reason alone seemed good enough for me. Also if you take them out you should get an extra +/- 5 hp added. I say if removing the balance shafts will solve everything then go for it, but if you dont want to then I say try to act like a pissed off customer, demanding to not have to pay for anything they messed up, like stated in the post above. Hope everything works out for you man. Let us no what you decide on.

 

[adidas5482]

They didn't tell me why removing the balance shafts is a bad idea. My guess is that removing the balance shafts will cause the car to vibrate like crazy.....being a daily driver, this is not very desirable.

 

[jott5555]

i hear people ranting and raveing about ams a ton on this board. i personally thing they are crap ive heard a ton of bad reviews too. your car is a 99 is hould still be under warrentee isnt it?? if not that is all sorts of bull shit.

you should get your shit done for free 5500 bucks is more than enough money to build a 6bolt and swap it in. talk to the manager threaten to call bbb all sorts of shit.. its jacked. if they told you that removeing your bs shafts is a bad idea you need to take your car else where. it is a barely noticable vibration mostally at idle. and litterly everyone on this board with theirs removed will tell you that after 2 or 3 days of driving haveing the bs removed you dont even releize it anymore.

if the shit hits the wire have them install your bs kit for free and that may fix your problem. but you have starved it again just like you did the first time..

imo ams = crap..

 

[adidas5482]

84k on the odometer so the car is no longer under warranty. I asked ams about a 6 bolt swap and they told me that it would cost somewhere in the neiborhood of 8k which is insane to spend for me.

 

[kreepscort]

i have had the b belts taken out on a 7 bolt and on a 6 bolt in my 95 tsi, and honestly i never felt a diference, but thats just me... im sure some people might have felt a small diference but nothing huge... just get them removed

 

[AMS Eric #2]

I wasent at the shop today to see the car come back in so Im not really up on the situation at all.

IF we had removed the balance shafts in the new motor, the warranty from Mitsubishi on the new shortblock would have immediatly been voided, eliminating ANY possibility of getting the new shortblock replaced. Im sure thats why Eric said not to do it in this situation. We install balance shaft removal kits all the time, I just did one in a car that belongs to a member of this very board a few days ago. I ended up hopefully saving his motor and so far the thing sounds perfect.

This was a remanufactured shortblock from Mitsubishi, the balance shafts should in no way need to be eliminated. We simply removed the old motor, cleaned the head and other parts clear of old oil and bolted them onto the new shortblock, reinstalled it, and started the car. Its a rather simple process. I dont understand what part some of you are saying is "our fault"? Its the same exact process any Mitsubishi dealer would have taken.

I'm not going to get into the situation much further because I dont really know what is going on with the car and I havent personally taken a look at it yet. The industry standard for warranties on auto parts is that the manufacture of said part opts to pay for the labor to replace the defective part or not. I know that Jasper as an example, pays a certain amount to the installer if there is a defect so that the customer doesnt have to pay the bill. I'm not personally aware of Mitsubishis policy on this, but it appears to be that they do not do this.

I'll take a look at the car and the situation tomorrow and see what I can do to help rectify the problem. I certainly don't want anyone to feel like theyve been screwed in any way. I take more pride in my job and the company that I work for than anything in this world. I certainly wouldnt have left home, all my friends and family, to move 350 to one of the most expensive cities in the country to live in if I didn't think AMS was one of the best shops in the country.

Don't be too quick to point fingers and start saying places suck just because something went wrong. When you work on enough cars, something WILL go wrong occasionally. It happens to everyone, the difference is how well the situation is handled and resolved when something does happen.

Best regards,
Eric #2

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Who the #### pays $5300 for a god dayum OEM shortblock??? They LIST for $2000 from Mitusibishi. $5300 would have gotten you one nasty ass motor, completely built. I must be in the wrong business.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Who the #### pays $5300 for a god dayum OEM shortblock??? They LIST for $2000 from Mitusibishi. $5300 would have gotten you one nasty ass motor, completely built. I must be in the wrong business.

5300 for just a shortblock, installed? You're kidding, right? I have about that in my complete BUILT 6 bolt including both manifolds, including all machine work, timing belt, hg, assembled, etc.

NEW shortblocks from Mitsu are 2k, and you got a reman?? Jesus Eric I hate to rain in on your parade, but that's outright rape.

 

[kristmen]

$5300 dollars? WHAT THE ####...

Dude you could have gotten a built race engine for less. Hell you coulda gotten a 6bolt built race engine, all the parts needed to install it into 2G for less.

I'm mean I know dealers are high and a lot of shops are too but good lord.

I just had a 6bolt turbo engine fully built for $700 plus parts.. Parts were $2000~2200 roughly. Wiseco Pistons, rods, oem front case, oem bearings, oem gasket kit blah blah.

The build included engine and tranny install too.

As far as removing the balance shafts, no its not really bad. Most people do it. Yes you are correct, you will get more vibration though but being a new engine it should be too bad.

I don’t have any. My friend rebuilt his engine 40,000 miles ago without any bal shafts and its still running strong.

One thing though. You might be able to get the Mitsubishi to replace it and pay labor.. My friends 98 GSX had engine problems. The engine was under warranty. The dealer tried to fix it 3 times without having any luck. They fixed it, something else went wrong with it.

He called up the corp. and bitched for a couple weeks and finally they ok'ed a new engine and covered labor. How he did it, I don't know. I was there when the new engine came in though so I know he got it all ok'ed.

Talk to the shop that did the work and see if you can get them to help you get mhi to replace the parts and pick up the labor.

 

[kristmen]

I was just thinking of something. Like you said removing the balance shafts would void the warrenty. Does dropping the pan and opening the case void it too too or just removing the shafts?

Why not just replace the balance shaft bearings and balance shaft if needed? I mean if you guys are willing to do the elim free its not much more work to do bearings and replace the shafts.

You have to pull the pan and case anyway to do the balance shaft elim so why not just replace the bearings and shafts if they are what went out well you got it open?

 

[FireyIce01]

I'm going to look at this from a pissed off consumer point of view.... the guy comes to your shop, pays WAY more than the motor is worth anyway, and within how many miles, 10ish? it failed... I don't care what kind of warantee mitsu has on the reman-ed block... if you want to keep him as a customer, you better had do the swap for the new motor for free... That is just good business practice... if you stand behind your work, and think that the block was defective (I'm not saying it wasn't) then you should be willing to pull it, send it back to mitsu, and install the new one they send you, free of charge... I don't know how you got away with chargind a guy that much for a motor and a clutch anyway... I paid $2000 for a complete 95 GSX WITH RUNNING motor...

I need to get into the auto business, seems like you can go around bending people over and showing it up their a$# while they stand there and fidget, and at the end of the day it's just another day's work.


Now.... from a shop's point of view (my roommate is the manager of a shop, so I *do* know where you're coming from) I would be looking at things from this perspective: You just put a new motor in this guys car... apparently mitsu sent you a POS block, so the guy needs it replaced... the motor hasn't had enough miles to warrant a new tank of gas, let alone anything else, AND when he checked the oil after bringing it home from your shop, it was a quart low... weather this was an oversight that caused the problem or not, it was an oversight. You want to keep this customer so he'll keep coming back? You better do your damndest to make him spending his money at your place of business a pleasurable experience... maybe you can't justify swapping the motor for free... but you can justify doing it at massively reduced rates... give him some free tuning time in the future.... do SOMETHING to make the guy want to come back...

Soo... that's my point of view... if I were in this guys position, and it was my motor, and I was told that I must have gotten a defective motor, and it'd be 2000 in labor to change out the motor that's under mitsu warantee, I'd already be on the phone with a lawyer...


It sounds to me like someone's trying to rectify the situation, so that's definately good to hear... Hope things work out for both you guys

 

[diab0liK]

Yeah, good luck on getting this resolved.

I do have to share the sentiments that you definitely got hosed for that motor, $5300 is waaaaaaaay too much. $2000 on a motor they put in and died a day later is ridiculous, but as was pointed out, it looks like someone will step in, to resolve the situation.

doesn't really seem to bode well for AMS though.....all the chi-town ppl talk them up, and I have no experience w/ them, so I can't say, but I'm glad we have TRE up here....$65 for a complete inspection incl. tranny. Can't go wrong.

Shit, I don't even want to think how much fun I could let them have w/ 5300 on my car

g'luck getting this taken care of mang.

diab0liK

 

[GeneralChaos]

$2000 to swap a 7 bolt with another 7 bolt?

hell I'll do it for $500, win/win situation for both of us

You guys at AMS should definately cut this man some slack after spening the money he did. remember a happy customer tells 2-3 people, a angry customer tells at LEAST 10.

 

[AMS stampy]

whoa whoa whoa. Way to jump the gun

1. Eric #2 was right we didnt remove the balance shafts because it would void the facotry waranty. Secondly Tom was selling the car he told me and just wanted to get the thing running in good shape so he could sell it.

2. $5300 did not just include a short block it included New oil pump, water pump, timing belt, timing belt tensioner, new 4G63 engine gasket kit, ACT Clutch, Throw out bearing, MLS head gasket, ARP head studs and a street tune. The motor was $2100 and the labor was $1100.00 the rest was the additional parts added on.

3. the balance shaft bearing failed by the fault of mitusishi not us. Name one aftermarket or factory company that will waranty the cost of labor when a job is done???? This was NOT the fault of AMS this was faulty bearings from Mitsu. Why should we get stuck with the bill on this?? we are doing tom a favor by replacing the balance shafts with eliminator kits at no charge. We dont have to do this. We feel for his position and are doing the best to take care of him.

4. this board never ceases to amaze me at how quick people are to judge a person or a shop. Reading this post is a testament to just that. here we have a situation where AMS isnt at fault at all and we are giving him a no cost sollution yet the general consensus on the board is that we are crap and dont know what we are doing. The things martin and the shop have done here to advance this industry are staggering...but I guess that doesnt account for anything does it.

Eric


on a side note this car was driven for three days by both of the owners to and from the shop to make sure it was in perfect running condition. Something we do with all major jobs. when this car left here it ran like a champ. No hicups or problems at all. so dont asume this car left here crippled. this is something that happened once Tom got it home.

 

[GeneralChaos]

whoa whoa whoa. Way to jump the gun

4. this board never ceases to amaze me at how quick people are to judge a person or a shop. Reading this post is a testament to just that. here we have a situation where AMS isnt at fault at all and we are giving him a no cost sollution yet the general consensus on the board is that we are crap and dont know what we are doing. The things martin and the shop have done here to advance this industry are staggering...but I guess that doesnt account for anything does it.

Im not jumping any guns or assuming anything. It was nice to offer a free balance elim install but what if that didnt fix it? hed be even more screwed. and if it was $1100 in labor the first time why $2000 to install it the second??? theres got to be some miscommunication here.

I never said you guys were a bad shop or anything either, but insulting the community that gives you business isnt the best idea.

Im not blaiming one or the other, no reason to point fingers since it doesnt get you anywhere, just trying to find a reasonable solution for both parties and give my .02 (like its worth anything )

lets get this worked out

 

[AMS97EclipseGSX]

Im not jumping any guns or assuming anything. It was nice to offer a free balance elim install but what if that didnt fix it? hed be even more screwed. and if it was $1100 in labor the first time why $2000 to install it the second??? theres got to be some miscommunication here.

I never said you guys were a bad shop or anything either, but insulting the community that gives you business isnt the best idea.

Im not blaiming one or the other, no reason to point fingers since it doesnt get you anywhere, just trying to find a reasonable solution for both parties and give my .02 (like its worth anything )

lets get this worked out

I'm sure that $2000 also include gaskets that would have to be replaced when you do a short block swap. example HG. You really don't want to reuse them and they are $97.72. That all adds up in the long run.

 

[AMS stampy]

I wasnt insulting anyone. what this site fails to realize is that when these things come up and 99% of the time are resolved and rooted to miscomunication it hurts us as a buisness. The people that dont take the time to read the whole post dont see that it was a simple mistake or miscomunication..in the meantime we lose buisness.

We have ALWAYS warantied our labor and services and I am not going to lie when I say that we have had to stand by it a few times. Every shop has. we are human beings....mistakes can be made. in this case the mistake came from Mitsubishi. Now we are getting publicly hung for it. we are doing everything we can for Tom within reason. We are losing money to put the eliminator kit in and losing money on the tow all the way here but to take a hit on swapping the whole motor for something that was of no fault of or own is a little hard to swallow.


Where is this $2000 coming from. see tom is just shooting from the hip here we havent even quoted him what it would cost to swap the motor. this is exactly what I am talking about

Eric

 

[adidas5482]

First off, I just want to thank everyone for their input. I did consider selling the car once it broke because I was pissed off. I do know that I owned a 95 gst before this car and it crankwalked. I had the short block replaced by the dealer then and they even gave me a 12 month 12,000 mile warranty on it even with all the aftermarket stuff I had on that car. They even honored this warranty a few months down the line by replacing a bad oil gasket on the motor. I love my car and I figured with a new short block done right by ams that the car would last me a couple years with no problems and it would be stupid to try and sell the car. I am still trying to come to a decision on what actions to take but I'm still at the point where im not sure what to do. Ams has always been a good shop, and I've been going there for some time now along with a couple of my buddies. I have nothing against them, but unloading 5300 to them and having this happen a few miles after leaving the shop leaves me with a sick feeling in my stomach. :thumbdown

 

[adidas5482]

and maybe I am wrong about the price, but the short block is 2100 and I thought the whole job was 4200 so I figured 2100 just in labor. Now I realize that you guys would reuse the timing belt, water pump, etc. I just don't want to spend another penny to get the same thing I already paid for.

 

[AMS stampy]

Tom there is nothing wrong with your motor. the ballance shaft bearing were simply bad. to pull this motor out and try to go after mitusbishi for warranty would be silly. swap in the balance shaft eliminator kit get your car back on the road and enjoy it. the ONLY reason we didnt suggest the eliminator kit is because you made it very very clear to me that you were going to sell the car, not to mention it would void the warranty on the motor. That is sort of mood point since once you sold the car mitsubishi would not transfer the warranty on the motor anyway. The car isnt going to be any less reliable without balance shafts.


when i gave you the intital quote of $4300 it included all those new components and you agreed to it. Personally i dont like reusing any of those pieces considering they were no were near brand new on your car. what kind of post would we be reading if we did the swap and the timing belt broke or the water pump failed....see my point. this does nothing but benefit you....we dont even charge you for labor on swaping those pieces out.

Eric

 

[AMS]

Who the #### pays $5300 for a god dayum OEM shortblock??? They LIST for $2000 from Mitusibishi. $5300 would have gotten you one nasty ass motor, completely built. I must be in the wrong business.

Before you post, please read the original post and understand what it says....otherwise your post looks dumb.

Posted by Adidas5482
"I picked up my car with the bill totaling 5300 for the new short block, 2100 clutch and street tune."

How do you get $5300 for a shortblock from that??? Do you think the motor and all the other parts got installed for free? 'Cmon..... And if you read Eric's post there was a lot of parts that went into this car. You people are like a bunch of sharks waiting for that drop of blood in the sea... Arne and myself drove that car around and we put many miles on it to make sure everything was ok.

We put a lot of extra time and care into making sure everything goes well... so for the $1100 in labor to swap all the new/used parts from one motor to the other, install the engine, and do a street tune... how much do you think Mitsu would have charged???? If we do this stuff any cheaper then we won't make money.. If we don't make money we will lose money....then we go out of business....

Of course I can cut overhead....get rid of shopowner insurance, hire hack mechanics for $10/hr, work out of my garage, not answer the phones and give tech advice, not spending half hour to an hour a day pushing cars in and out so they don't get broken into, ect...



-Martin

 

[diab0liK]

I'm broke and didn't even have the $5300 let alone spend another $2000.

That's where the 2k is coming from...maybe he was just thinking somewhere around 2k to drop it in, I'm not sure.

I really wouldn't go so far as to say you're being "publicly hung" just yet. If this was a 50 post thread, with like 30 ppl flaming, that would be one thing.

Also, why blame the "site" when it is in fact specific people who are making comments...I fail to see how it's the forums fault.

Furthermore, there was obviously some misinformation here. adidas didn't say he had gotten all that other stuff, and another one of your people, along with yourself didn't correct that fact, until just now.

If you had just said that in the first place, it would have made more sense. Obviously the only information we have, is what is being posted. Only a person or two just outright said "AMS sucks", the rest of the people just said "$5300 shortblock? wtf m8?"

as I said, I have no experience personally w/ ams, so I won't talk anything bad about you guys.

However, before you start crying about being publicly hung, and saying you're getting shafted, and losing business (from a 12 hour old post?), and you obviously haven't even payed attention to the on-goings here. You clearly didn't read adidas's post in the first place, and just thought you were being called lemon-squeezers, so you jumped on the defensive.

I'm glad to hear nobody payed $5300 for a shortblock install, though.

diab0liK

 

[adidas5482]

I'm at school right now and I get out @1:30 I'll let you guys know what I want to do shortly after that. I did make it clear that I wanted to sell the car, but shorty after that I said I'm probably gonna keep it. You replied with something to the fact that I should keep it and it will be a really nice car when you guys are finished with it. This is also the reason I wanted arp head studs and the better head gasket along with a new clutch. All things I would not do if I were just going to sell it right away.