My attempt to twincharge

[AlmightyBoost]

I was reviewing the volkswagen tsi twincharge set up, my goal is to replicate this system of twincharging. i noticed that the supercharger has an electric clutch on it and the plenum has a swing valve as well to bypass the supercharger for direct flow to the turbo. my question is, what in theory would happen if i was to leave the supercharger on during operation at all times to continuosly feed the turbo with compressed air? would it not work similar to the compound turbo set up with a continuous flow of compressed air into the turbine inlet? im curious. my turbo is a PTE6152, the supercharger i plan to use is a m112. thank you for any input that you have to offer. have a blessed day my fellow tuners.

Here is an illustration for those interested to see how the system works:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/20qqavckWdw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Bud92gsx]

I watched the whole thing, and it seems VW has some very nice ecu programming..Because the supercharger is on at low rpm, and the turbo is activated at 3500rpm, and the supercharger is turned off..

That engine is also direct injected and the compression ratio is 10-1...

 

[AngelOfPassion]

Wouldn't it be more effective to put the turbo BEFORE the supercharger? Like in a Lancia...

This setup seems like it would become a nightmare when something goes wrong. And very expensive... just my .02

 

[99gst_racer]

Neat set-up.

If I were doing it, I'd feed the supercharger with the turbo, and feed the engine with the supercharger. Both compressors always opperating.

 

[1990AWD]

I really like the technology that VW uses, but its not practical for us because of engine management and cost, but you should be asking this guy for advice. -> Twincharged Talon.

 

[bastarddsm]

If i were gonna compound or twin charge, I'd definatly go for the remote mount compound. a big turbo would fit nicely where the muffler goes. our engine bays are two cramped allready.

 

[Spoolin92GSX]

I swear VW's engineers are just showing off now Cool system/idea though.. If I was going to attempt something like that with a supercharger, I would see if there was like a, reverse centrifugal clutch you could use on the SC drivebelt. That way you could have the pulley engage from idle to, say, 4000rpm when your turbo spools up. Personally I'd be afraid of running both together and overcharging, but I'm sure it'd be fine if you kept the SC conservative. That's about the end of where I'm helpful So I'll just say good luck with the build and keep us updated!

 

[kccombs]

It would be amazing to see. Even better to have but then again it would be like rackin your head into a wall if anything was to happen. But good luck.

 

[AlmightyBoost]

thank you guys for your input. i will take into consideration all of the advice given to me especially talking to twincharged talon. i am a big fan of paul volks compound turbo set up, this is what got me thinking out of the "just follow the upgrade path" box. i want to have my own car that isnt the same as everyone elses and make a sweet powerband that i wont have to have peaky horsepower numbers to run good times with. my goal is to make between 350whp to 400whp from 2500rpm and try and hold it as far as i can until redline. im looking to start this project in january. hopefully i will build something that can get my fellow tuners to say "good job bro" thank you all for your advice and i look forward to updating you all on my "i hope nothing breaks" adventure

 

[TSi Kid]

Hope you see this through. I would LOVE to see this as an actuality.

 

[Action600]

Sounds pretty cool Man!! Keep us posted.

 

[brian9397gsx]

Sounds interesting. To free up room I'd relocate your alternator and look into a dropping the PS, that will leave you a lot of area to mount the supercharger. I also agree with Paul feed the supercharger with the Turbo.

 

[kenamond]

Couple of things...
If you leave the compressor on all the time, will it flow enough air at high rpm or will it end up a bottleneck to airflow?
Do superchargers have the same issue as turbos where efficiency drops off at higher pressure ratios (PR)? Don't know much about superchargers.
How you going to intercool? I didn't notice anything in the video.

Good luck!

 

[AlmightyBoost]

what im thinking, in theory is that the supercharger should feed the turbo at a lower rpm thus making it "spool up" on its own because the air would be compressed before it gets to the turbine itself. on the higher end of the rpm band my theory is that the turbo would compress what ever air is being thrown at it no matter what it may be because without the supercharger infront of it there would have been normally no pressure at all just hot stagnant air. this would lead to a always on boost condition that will also be intercooled. it would infact make more sense to feed the supercharger with the turbo because it would leave the inlet open to suck as much air as it possibly can which would leave the supercharger to just continuously compress more air the same way it is set up in the lancia s4 that angelofpassion mentioned and also the way that paul volk said to set it up. this is something that i definately will be doing and a alternator relocation is definately on my list of things to do. i want to also make a heat shield that will keep the heat off the supercharger and i was also thinking that i could maybe use a vortec mounted where the ac compressor used to be and feed the turbo through an air to water intercooler that is boxed into a dry ice chest. im trying to go hard on this one. all suggestions are valued. i would like to take this time to thank all of my fellow tuners for any input that has been put towards this project : )