Motor was running then it stopped.

[Keithson30]

YouTube - my motor running

YouTube - my motor not starting

Ok here is a video of when i first started it. And a video of whats happening now.
Its was running fine then I heard a noise and the motor stopped. Now it wont crank, it looks like it is trying though. I already pulled the valve cover and dont see any bent or missing valves. I also rechecked my Torque on my head and it was all still good.

 

[Keithson30]

Because. Even the BEST most RESPECTED shop isnt going to swap the engine for you in this type of situation. They will rebuild/replace the engine with a new one and send it to you.

I dont know, if I owned a shop I would. Just to make sure it was running right when it drove out, and the customer was satisfied. Also what about all the time I spent taking it out, and putting it in an extra time ?

So Im supposed to take out the motor again, mail it, wait a month to get the new one back, re-install it. Then hope it dont happen again ?

 

[tenn-gsx]

Thats pretty much how it works bro. If they installed the engine then it would be a different story.

 

[Black-Out]

Not that it makes a difference now but I had a friend that built his evo motor with oversized valves and he used pistons from a different manufacturer only to find out the relief cuts in the piston crowns were only deep enough for the stock valves........Turns out that the pictures of your engine looked just like his did...and his engine ran for only about 5 minutes before he was done....When I asked him if he used clay to interference check the valve to piston clearence his answer was an emphatic no with a why would I need to do that look on his face......The only thing I could say after that was and now you know why.....If your engine was a performance build or maybe a stock build with forged rods,pistons, and bigger valves for a bump in strength for future mods you may want to ask about what specific parts were used in the build to make sure it doesn't happen twice.....sounds bad I know but I've seen it happen before and it sucks......
William

 

[Keithson30]

Well here is the video of the damage, car, etc...

Open to all comments, opinions, thoughts, etc...

Sorry, I suck at recording even with a high definition camcorder.

YouTube - M2U00012

 

[tenn-gsx]

Every one of your pistons shows contact with the exhaust valves. Who put the head and timing assy together? The answer to that question is also the answer to who is at fault.

 

[DSMReviver]

Could you please send me a PM of who/shop that build your motor? Thanks...

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

You don't have another picture of what the timing side looked like before you put the motor in the car do you? Something with more perspective that shows all the timing marks? More specifically what I'm after is a shot of where you had the manual tensioner and hydraulic tensioner set at.

 

[Keithson30]

Every one of your pistons shows contact with the exhaust valves. Who put the head and timing assy together? The answer to that question is also the answer to who is at fault.

I don't see any damage to any of the pistons except #4. I took the cam gears straight off, because I had no choice it was locked, and you can see the knobs look like they are in time. The first head I showed in the video is the one that came on the motor. Here is the thread for that.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/397389-help-me-your-opinions-please.html

So I put the new head on, spent an hour or so on the phone with the owner, while emailing him, I sent about 40 pictures until he was happy with the timing. Then he said it is good by him and to pull the grenade pin.

 

[dsmornothing]

Did you pay for that port work? I really hope not.

Woops wrong head.

 

[Keithson30]

You don't have another picture of what the timing side looked like before you put the motor in the car do you? Something with more perspective that shows all the timing marks? More specifically what I'm after is a shot of where you had the manual tensioner and hydraulic tensioner set at.

He accepted these as good. Then he had me check play in tensioner arm, and pull grenade pin.

Yes I paid for the port work. Thats the head that was bolted on to the motor when I first recieved it. Then they sent me a new head and the owner walked me through the timing. I informed him when I first ordered the motor I did not want to have to mess with timing, he said I would not have to.

 

[tenn-gsx]

Ok take close up pictures of each piston. Make sure you have the exhaust valve reliefs showing. Your video looks like every exhaust valve hit every piston but I may be wrong bcause you only gave closeups of the intake valve reliefs, and I could only get a glimpse of the exhaust reliefs.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

If I'm seeing your lower left picture correctly I'm seeing a HUGE problem. The tensioner pulley IS NOT tensioned properly in that picture if I'm seeing the seeing the two holes for the tool at roughly 9 o'clock and 6 o'clock. It should look like this:

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When you pulled the grenade pin, what happened? Did the tensioner arm move up a good amount or did it stay perfectly in place to the point where you could have stuck the pin right back in?

 

[Keithson30]

It stayed in place, almost to the point where I could have stuck the grenade pin right back in.

 

[Calan]

I agree with Jesse. My bet is that the tensioner reached the end of it's travel. In fact, it looks to me like the belt has slack in it going around the tensioner pulley in the lower left pic that you posted.

It also looks like you were off a tooth, based on the slight misalignment of the crank plate mark and the cam marks.

 

[Keithson30]

Is it possible to buff, or die grind the top of the piston ? Im not in the mood to pull this motor back out and ship it, and then reinstall in a month. I have an extra head sitting in the garage, with some crappy port work done to it, but I have a local machine shop that might be able to fix that. I just need the motor to last around 20 - 30 k miles till I can save for a new one.

 

[Below Ambient]

Is it possible to buff, or die grind the top of the piston ? Im not in the mood to pull this motor back out and ship it, and then reinstall in a month. I have an extra head sitting in the garage, with some crappy port work done to it, but I have a local machine shop that might be able to fix that. I just need the motor to last around 20 - 30 k miles till I can save for a new one.

what ever marks that are on the piston will become hot spots... just thought I would throw that out there...

 

[JU5TIN95]

yeah and hot spots will eventually crack your pistons....im fixin to pull my motor out of my 95 eagle talon it popped the timing belt and bent the valves and got my pistons to....

 

[tenn-gsx]

You can grind out damage as long as its not very deep. You have to make sure you blend it well though otherwise you will get hot spots and that will lead to bigger issues. How deep are the dents in the pistons? This will also determine if blending the damage is a good idea or not. How much boost and power do you plan to run?

My suggestion is to have the shop repair the engine if it really is only the one cylinder that is damaged. Why half ass it unless you really gotta have the car up now?

I ran a stock short block that kissed all 16 valves for another 60k miles and had no issues. This was on a Big T28 running 18-25 psi the whole time. It all depends on how bad the damage is to the pistons and what you plan to do with the car.

 

[Keithson30]

Right after I made that post I started searching the internet. Its like everything else on the internet though. A bunch of people doing it, and a bunch of people saying you cant. There are people that are sanding, smoothing, and fixing the top of there piston. (see link)

Piston top surface finish? • Speed Talk


I just went out to the garage and rotated the crank. Got piston #4 to the top and took a closeup picture, without the valves in it.

Yes I need the car running now. I was supposed to leave here for Florida this past Thursday. Starting life over again.

 

[Calan]

That piston is done... it's the others that we need better pics of.

Did you ever check to see if the cams would rotate freely, check the cam caps for oil starvation, and check the oil pump?

 

[Keithson30]

You don't think I can sand/buff those nicks out ? I just need the motor to last like 20,000 miles, and thats just a rough estimate, I really just need it to run for like 6 months, and get me 20 hours down the road like right now. Then Ill have enough money to rebuild it again, or have some shop in Florida build me one.

When I first pulled the valve cover there was plenty of oil in the head, there was no metal in the oil when I drained it. I posted a video of all the pistons, head, and valves yesterday. (post #79)

 

[tenn-gsx]

I agree. I wouldn't trust that piston on a n/a engine. Yes you showed a video but ill say again that im pretty sure I saw damage from the exhaust valves hitting the pistons. However your video didn't show that part clear enough to be sure.

 

[Keithson30]

I agree. I wouldn't trust that piston on a n/a engine. Yes you showed a video but ill say again that im pretty sure I saw damage from the exhaust valves hitting the pistons. However your video didn't show that part clear enough to be sure.

Sorry I suck at using a camcorder, ill see if my sister will come over tomorrow and record a better one.

Do you think the piston will make it like 6 months, and on a 20 hour trip to Florida ?
Ill turn my turbo all the way down with the manual boost controller if I have to !

I have to get out of Kansas, just went through a really bad breakup, and im going crazy (to say the least) so I have to leave now. I dont have a month to wait on a new motor to get here.

 

[Keithson30]

Pretty crazy that you just spent all this money on a motor and now you just want to get it running until you can save for another one. Im not going to go into detail about the truth behind the shop and your motor build on tuners, but if you want to know what I know just shoot me a PM. I cant stand people that screw others over for a buck.

I agree ! Very crazy, but who cares its money, ive lost more on the craps and poker tables, and ill earn more, its life. I know Florida has to have a good DSM shop, ill be in Orlando. Hopefully they take this motor as a core.

(KARMA ROCKS)

 

[JusMX141]

if the photos shown in post #85 were of the engine getting ready to run with the new head, then the timing belt is DEFINITELY too loose, thereby causing the belt to skip and the exhaust valves in #4 contacted the pistons.

Exhaust valves are not the same steel as intake valves- they don't bend, they tend to shatter destroying the guides as well.

If that's truly the case, and you were the one timing the engine and not the shop, then the shop is not going to do anything in regards to this matter. Your best bet to get the problem solved in a timely manner is to either buy a good used head or pick up a rebuilt head somewhere, install it along with a new gasket, time it correctly, and everything *should* go smoothly as long as everything else in the engine stays together as it should.