Megasquirt ECU, hmmm...

[aero_sallee]

I got my kit from DIYAutotune also. Had the kit within 4 days. Ordered a MS2 daughterboard a week ago. Got it within 3 days.

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

I've been testing and running the Laser on the MS2 code for a while now, and it's doing great. I'm only running the ignition side with the MS2 for now, until my wideband gets in..Been driving it every day, went to the xceed BBQ with it, which was a 3hr drive there and back, and have 3 track runs in on it. All went perfectly, no probs what soever. It just runs smooth as silk. My timing map pretty much matches the stock map, with slight adjustments here and there..It just runs smoother than stock People have been asking me for msq files, but i really dont have much to offer, except an ignition advance map, since i dont have any of the fuel tuned in yet, or any of the perameters set for it..I should be getting the wideband in by next week, so the MS2 will be running full spark and fuel within the next few weeks..For those who want to build a MS2, i made all the schematics you need for the input and output mods to the MS board, just check out the MS forums..

Just a side note, for those with 2g's, you MUST use a 1G CAS with the MS2 Extra code...MS1 can use either though..

 

[dsmputz]

I would love to run megasquirt but after reading all the install stuff (soldering, resistors, jumpers, etc) it looks complicated to me. I can rip apart a motor, do bearing clearances and all that jazz but when it comes to electronics i'm just lost. I would rather be part of the MS crew but the instructions are blowing my mind.

 

[TealTalon]

Sitting down and looking at the instructions made my head hurt before I got my kit.

Once you get the kit you just go step by step. No one step is more complicated then insert piece and solder. It's all so clearly labeled on the board and the packages it comes in, You really have to be scatterbrained to mess things up. Even pieces that have to follow a certain polarity are labeled as such.

Go slow and follow the instructions they are very good. You assemble circuits in stages (power circuit, input circuit) and test as you go. If you have a problem you troubleshoot before it gets too complicated.

I assembled the board and tester in about 5 hours. I have never assembled a circuit board in my life. I had only soldered wires together previous to this. The car hasn't even run on it yet, and I think this is the most rewarding thing I have done as far as a car related project goes. Blowing air into the MAP sensor and watching the gauge on the laptop move made me laugh...

The best part was when I had a problem I could look at the instruction and fix it. I lost communication at some point after doing the DSM mods to the board. Turned out that one of the leads on the chip socket had a bad solder joint pn pins 12 and 13 the Tx Rx pins on the ECU chip. I understand the basics of the circuits on the board now. This could be priceless down the road if you have issues instead of sending your box off and hoping for good customer support turnaround.

I am surprised more DSM guys aren't into this it is the ultimate in DIY, and being CHEAP. Both we all know DSM'rs excel at. Unfortunately being afraid of the unknown or stepping outside the proven paths seems to be stopping people. Like 8-9 years ago, Omg you drive a 20G on the street?!?1? Thats a drag race turbo...

Look at the list of features.

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/

It's damn near open source DSM link.

Someone should consolidate the megasquirt assembly manual down to just the steps needed for a DSM setup. A couple times I got confused on some of the MS2 info interwoven into the MS1 assembly instructions.


Crap sorry to rant...still looking for a base MSQ file just to get me started. Should be firing up the car on the stock ECU this week.

 

[TealTalon]

ok i am ready to do this now then. I need a run down of price and parts. Also is their a way to not cut into the factory harness to set this up so if i want to go to something else later or sell the car i can put it back to stock with out have a bunch of electrical problems.

http://www.machv.com/ecupaha.html , but thats almost as much as MS costs. So I guess you could find a dead ECU, remove the socket, and make your own.

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

Someone should consolidate the megasquirt assembly manual down to just the steps needed for a DSM setup. A couple times I got confused on some of the MS2 info interwoven into the MS1 assembly instructions.

I was planning on doing a full writeup for the DSM guys and the MS2 install. I wouldnt include the actual board assembly steps, as that is already outlined very well. You just have to pay attention when constructing the input section, to not forget the mods needed for the CAS inputs. Same applies for the LED spark outputs. I wanted to include factory OEM wire colors/locations that are needed, and any/all base settings and timing maps to get started. The cool thing with the MS2 is that, most of the fuel perameters are based of the required fuel value, so this means that injector swaps are much easier, since you dont have to retune many of the enrichments and such, you just change your req fuel value. This also helps people use a "base" 450cc injector fuel map, who run larger injectors. The fuel perameters and the VE table will be somewhat close, just fine tuning needed. I'm more than happy to offer up a base configuration file, but i only want to do this after i get the fuel side dialed in. That should be a very good start for a OEM "base" setup for others to start from. Should at least start and run the car anyway..

I'm also very surprised at the low popularity of the MS and the DSM's..I do agree that the learning curve involved, assemby, tuning, is more than the average DIY'er wants to put in. The DSM link is much mor plug and play, and many others using it to offer up tuning help, ect.. I'll tell you though, if you take the time to learn, read, understand, and involve yourself with the MS, there's no lookking back. The injector resolution is the same as an AEM standalone(MS2), the processor is pleny fast, many usable features such as launch control, fan control, nitrous, just too many to list off. They are now going to include 16x16 VE and spark tables in the next code release, so that takes care of anyone thinking the tables are too small, esp for guys wanting to run 30+ psi boost. The MS rules. Just go to the Shootout this year, people will see me run I'll be sporting some "powered by Megasuirt" stickers or something like that hehe.. BTW, "wishihadatalon" won the stock apearing class at the Shootout last year, running a Megasquirt 1 setup. That just about sums it up!

 

[JrCRXHF]

well i think even if someone wanted to make a little money selling a kit just for DSM's so you would put together the kit or even make a turn key kit with just the parts and directions that a dsm needs.

I would pay a little more to save me some time and problems also if they sold a connector so you would have have to cut into the stock wiring would make it even more plug and play.

 

[Maglin]

I think a PNPMS for the DSM might come available in the near future. The biggest problem I see is that I'm not to sure if the connectors can be sourced.

It's a steep learning curve. I don't really like the 16x16 tables. I plan to run 40+ PSI and since most large turbo's spool so fast their still isn't any need for tables that large IMO. Once I hit 15 psi on my HX35 it would shoot to 32 psi in a blink. But their are some out their that want it.

And please never even mention DSMLink and MS in the same sentence. They are worlds apart. DSMLink is for the beginner who doesn't understand how to edit spark and fuel tables. They used sliders for that very reason. MS will never almost be DSMLink. It's more the other way around. Anyone using DSMLink will notice a large difference in fuel mileage and of course the "extra" options to be far better than DSMLink.
/rant off
I'm just waiting on a few pins to come in for my wiring harness and I'm going to be installing the DB37 in the 2G. Motor should come out of machine shop this Friday so I can get it put together and in the car. I'm hoping to have this MSII running in 2 weeks. Machine shop took a lot longer than expected. I'm going to be using the GM CLT so I don't have to use easytherm. I'll post my MSQ once I got a good 20 PSI tune running. I was wanting to start with one but I think I'll just build my own. Realized we have a resister pack so don't need to worry about PWM settings with the injectors. Will be nice to compare MSQ's with you Matt once we both are finished. See how close our MSQ's come to each other. And I'm glad to hear the ignition is working great on the newest alpha. Looking forward to seeing how your fuel goes.

 

[wishihadatalon]

I think a PNPMS for the DSM might come available in the near future. The biggest problem I see is that I'm not to sure if the connectors can be sourced.

It's a steep learning curve. I don't really like the 16x16 tables. I plan to run 40+ PSI and since most large turbo's spool so fast their still isn't any need for tables that large IMO. Once I hit 15 psi on my HX35 it would shoot to 32 psi in a blink. But their are some out their that want it.

And please never even mention DSMLink and MS in the same sentence. They are worlds apart. DSMLink is for the beginner who doesn't understand how to edit spark and fuel tables. They used sliders for that very reason. MS will never almost be DSMLink. It's more the other way around. Anyone using DSMLink will notice a large difference in fuel mileage and of course the "extra" options to be far better than DSMLink.
/rant off
I'm just waiting on a few pins to come in for my wiring harness and I'm going to be installing the DB37 in the 2G. Motor should come out of machine shop this Friday so I can get it put together and in the car. I'm hoping to have this MSII running in 2 weeks. Machine shop took a lot longer than expected. I'm going to be using the GM CLT so I don't have to use easytherm. I'll post my MSQ once I got a good 20 PSI tune running. I was wanting to start with one but I think I'll just build my own. Realized we have a resister pack so don't need to worry about PWM settings with the injectors. Will be nice to compare MSQ's with you Matt once we both are finished. See how close our MSQ's come to each other. And I'm glad to hear the ignition is working great on the newest alpha. Looking forward to seeing how your fuel goes.

Thank you for saying that. I find it funny when I see posts on here talking about how much more advanced and better DSM link is compared to a real stand alone. I hope your car goes well

And hopefully we will see another stock appearing winner this year with the M.S.

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

Eh dont get me wrong, I wasnt trying to compare the DSM link to the MS as far as tunability or features and such, I was comparing the plug and play and go factor, and ease of install. The DSM link doesnt even come close in features and tunability to the MS

As for the 16x16 tables, yes, you dont need them really, but it will be nice for those who want to have a high boost engine for at the track, yet still want good lower boost street tunes, all in the same VE and spark maps. If you want 40 psi at the track, you have all the bins for it, and if you want lets say 15-20 psi on the street, you can have that as well, with plenty of bins for fine tuning the entire boost and rpm range. If all you have is a race car, and only will run high boost, then yeah, a 12x12 is fine, as you wont see constant pressures low enough, and long enough for "fine tuning". At this point, i'm not sure if it's going to be an option to either run 12 or 16 bins, like "selectable", or if its just going to revert to 16 automatically..I know the 12x12 is plenty of bins up to 30 psi, but over that, I think it would be nice to have a few extra bins to tune with.

If I had the spare time, I would assemble and sell ready to install kits, with a wire harness and everything, but it wouldnt be for a while until the fall/winter. I'm way to busy to do that this summer..Having to deal with people's install issues, and tuning probs would get back to me for sure, and i dont know if i want to deal with that headache hehe..

Making a PNP harness for the stock ecu would be cool, but really, there isnt that many wires to interface with. You really only need the following: 4 injector wires(cut/isolate from the ECU), 2 power trans wires(cut/isolate from ECU), TPS(tap), switched power(tap)(can get that anywhere), and the 2 CAS signal wires(tap off ECU). The rest you dont need. Thats only like 10 wires at most really..I just use male/female connectors on the stock ECU wires so if i want to take it out and reconnect, its super easy. You still have to run the separate wires for the intake air temp, and coolant temp, and a map sensor vac line, so you still have external wiring to do, even if you have a "PNP" harness.. You could use a few of the unused stock wiring under the hood, and go back to the ECU for a connection, but still, this means wiring that needs to be done. There really isnt a way around doing at least a little bit of wiring when a PNP setup is used..no way around it. Wiring isnt that hard, most should be able to make a good clean connection or interface the stock wires with ease. Too many people get intimidated with wiring

 

[Dark_Horse]

Is anyone running more than 4 injectors on a DSM with MS2?

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

Is anyone running more than 4 injectors on a DSM with MS2?

Not that I know of, but you can do it several ways really. You can run the staged injection option, which runs one set of injectors to a set kpa level, then the second set kicks on at that kpa level. This would work well for very highly boosted cars, and lets you run sane primary fuel injector sizes, and larger secondaries for high boost. You can retain excellent idle and cruise tunability this way. Or, you can run 4 injectors on one channel, and the other 4 on the second, and use much smaller sized injectors rather than 4 huge ones. Not a huge benifit this way, as you still have a lot of fuel to dial out for idle and cruise..The staged injection has been used by quite a few MS users, and it seems to work well, but does take some time to fine tune the transistions. I would think the injector resolution with the MS2, you should be able to run up to a 1000cc injector and still be able to get a somewhat decent A/F at idle and cruise. Maybe not stoich, but slightly richer. With that large of injector, its not so much the pulse width resolution, but the actual PW itself. Most fuel injectors take at least a 1ms opening time, and dont like to run PW's any lower than that. If you had and idle PW of 1.0 ms, you would be running off of injector open time only..cant control A/f very well that way. I think 800cc injectors would be a good idle/cruise tuning "limit" for stable, controllable A/F's under low load.

 

[JrCRXHF]

I don't have a problem running the wiring i have done it lots of times with honda motor swaps before you could buy the cables already made.

If i was to do it i would still make a pigtale that i was cutting into even if it only cost me 50 bucks and some time. I really don't like old wiring harness i guess that is just me. Then i would run new wire for the air temp GM map for me the flex fuel sensor and what ever else i needed.

How well does it control boost for a output like a AEM ecu. I know i should go start looking around on the MS boards and i have been doing some reading their but i think on DSMtuners we get the dumbed down talk about the ECU. Which is good because i really only need to know at this point how the MS runs on the DSM. The other problem is that when i am do this i am going to have MS run the whole car not just spark i hope by that time someone has a base map for the car i can start with then spend some time on the road tuning and for upper hp go to the dyno.

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

How well does it control boost for a output like a AEM ecu.

As of now, the boost control feature has not been added in. It is planned to get into the code though, and it did work good on MS1 Extra code. The closed loop boost control was a bit iffy, but straight boost control worked very well, and even was working great with a 12 dollar GM boost solenoid. Sure beats a Profec at like $350+ bucks!

The MS also lets you use TPS based boost control, so you can run a set level of boost at different set levels of throttle position. You can do rpm based boost as well. The tuning map is basically tps vs rpm.

 

[wishihadatalon]

As of now, the boost control feature has not been added in. It is planned to get into the code though, and it did work good on MS1 Extra code. The closed loop boost control was a bit iffy, but straight boost control worked very well, and even was working great with a 12 dollar GM boost solenoid. Sure beats a Profec at like $350+ bucks!

The MS also lets you use TPS based boost control, so you can run a set level of boost at different set levels of throttle position. You can do rpm based boost as well. The tuning map is basically tps vs rpm.

It's amazing how much your opinion changes when I force you to look into something
"TJ why don't you just buy a profec b"

 

[Maglin]

I already personally have a Profec B. I'll be using the MS for boost control once it's released at least to test. I'm not totally happy with the profec B anyways.

 

[dsmmack]

Can the Megasquirt tuning software do Boost Compensation Tuning for fuel? Or is it still cell by cell tuning?
This is the one thing that would sway me either way to the MS camp or not.

 

[Maglin]

Boost Compensation Tuning for fuel?

Most of us call that tuning. If you think you can plug in a boost range and the computer does all the work you might not want to mess with any stand alone. You can read on the MS forums and docs to see what it has to offer. Their is enough information for you to be busy for the next few weeks reading.

If reading isn't for you then no stand alone is. If you don't want to work on building circuits or changing how inputs and outputs work then the MS definitely isn't for you. You might find someone to build you one and install and tune it. It would still be cheaper than going AEM or something similar since the AEM is the cheapest aftermarket EMS out their.

Not trying to deter anyone but if you don't want to read then you are looking in the wrong place.

Extra Forums
Extra Doc still in work
Their is the links to get you started.

 

[dsmmack]

Most of us call that tuning. If you think you can plug in a boost range and the computer does all the work you might not want to mess with any stand alone. You can read on the MS forums and docs to see what it has to offer. Their is enough information for you to be busy for the next few weeks reading.

If reading isn't for you then no stand alone is. If you don't want to work on building circuits or changing how inputs and outputs work then the MS definitely isn't for you. You might find someone to build you one and install and tune it. It would still be cheaper than going AEM or something similar since the AEM is the cheapest aftermarket EMS out their.

Not trying to deter anyone but if you don't want to read then you are looking in the wrong place.

Extra Forums
Extra Doc still in work
Their is the links to get you started.

Whoah.. easy there. Just asking a question since I searched the MS forums and didn't see anything there when I did a search regarding boost comp. Figured I'd ask since there seems to be a few of you who know the system pretty well.
I'm used to running standalones, I run a Holley Commander 950 ECU in my other car(daily driver). So no "tuning" does not scare me. The AEM EMS has boost comp. Its a very nice feature to tune with saves heaps of time.
Not the end of the world, but would be a nice if it has it.

 

[Maglin]

Well I'm not to sure what boost compensation is exactly. Sorry to bit your head off. Just irritates me at times how people will not bother to read and ask the same questions on the same thread.

And I'm not calling the AEM a bad system. It's good. If it was open source I would be in love it with minus the price tag. I foresee the MS going to surface mount components and basicly we won't be building them but modding them and playing with code.

 

[dsmmack]

Well I'm not to sure what boost compensation is exactly. Sorry to bit your head off. Just irritates me at times how people will not bother to read and ask the same questions on the same thread.

And I'm not calling the AEM a bad system. It's good. If it was open source I would be in love it with minus the price tag. I foresee the MS going to surface mount components and basicly we won't be building them but modding them and playing with code.

Normal Atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi, 14.7psi boost(what we see on the gauge)is nothing more than 200% of that. At 29.4 psi you're now at 300%
Boost compensation takes advantage of the fact that the VE stays the same no matter what boost level. Therefore when you tune the car say on the 15psi load row, The 20psi load row is automatically tuned.

Saves all the damn $&%#'ing around everytime you change boost levels and having to retune ever load and cell. As the rest of the tune in the transitional changes are calculated out properly.
If it had such a feature I'd be all over it like a fat kid on smarties!
Its the one thing that now after having two friends who own AEM's (One of which is now the guru for tuning AEM's in the city the damn Dyno/speed shop phones him to do their tuning for htem ) Its made me a bit spoiled. It just sucks that its 1500$ If the MS could do it... how sweeeet would that be. If it doesn't do this, This is something I think they need to add in as a feature in the future! When you've run standalones in the past and dicked around with them, Its so nice when you don't have to muck around for hours getting the right tune by having to do it cell by cell when you can have it done in 10 minutes.

I understand where your coming from. I know people ask questions without searching. Just figured since I didn't see anything with a quick read over and searching the forum's I'd ask since it seems there is a few of you who are using it with some pretty good knowledge.

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

Boost compensation takes advantage of the fact that the VE stays the same no matter what boost level. Therefore when you tune the car say on the 15psi load row, The 20psi load row is automatically tuned.

On a boosted engine, the VE doesnt stay the same at different boost levels. The turbo effectively changes the engine's VE with it's airflow and efficiency(at a basic level of description). I dont see how any program can "figure out" what the fuel needs are by referencing one set boost pressure's fuel demands. It may get it close, but not fine tuned by any means. I sure wouldnt trust software to figure out my tune for me, i want to tune it manually, at each certain boost pressure. It's not that hard really. I tune my VE table(the MS uses a VE table specifically to tune A/F vs pressure), at lets say 10 psi. Once i get that dialed in good, i can estimate what numbers to enter for lower and higher boost, to get it close(usually shoot for pretty rich A/F to be safe). After that, i'll set it for 15 psi, and fine tune it from there. It actually goes pretty quick if you know what you are doing, and i can dial in a boosted VE map within several hours. For the price for the entire MS setup, there's no comparison. Not as "flahsy" as an AEM or the like, but it's features and functionality are second to none for the price. I think being open source is the best feature yet, since there are some VERY inteligent guys writing the code that runs the MS, can write code to add usefull features, and can improve anything that is wrong or not right. If you want to go the Megasquirt route, just simply take the time to educate yourself about it, ask questions, ectc, and you will like it more and more. I'm greatful i stumbled upon the MS, i've learned so much from it..actually makes dianosis on any other fuel injected engine easier, since you really have the understanding of how it all works.

 

[wishihadatalon]

On a boosted engine, the VE doesnt stay the same at different boost levels. The turbo effectively changes the engine's VE with it's airflow and efficiency(at a basic level of description). I dont see how any program can "figure out" what the fuel needs are by referencing one set boost pressure's fuel demands. It may get it close, but not fine tuned by any means. I sure wouldnt trust software to figure out my tune for me, i want to tune it manually, at each certain boost pressure. It's not that hard really. I tune my VE table(the MS uses a VE table specifically to tune A/F vs pressure), at lets say 10 psi. Once i get that dialed in good, i can estimate what numbers to enter for lower and higher boost, to get it close(usually shoot for pretty rich A/F to be safe). After that, i'll set it for 15 psi, and fine tune it from there. It actually goes pretty quick if you know what you are doing, and i can dial in a boosted VE map within several hours. For the price for the entire MS setup, there's no comparison. Not as "flahsy" as an AEM or the like, but it's features and functionality are second to none for the price. I think being open source is the best feature yet, since there are some VERY inteligent guys writing the code that runs the MS, can write code to add usefull features, and can improve anything that is wrong or not right. If you want to go the Megasquirt route, just simply take the time to educate yourself about it, ask questions, ectc, and you will like it more and more. I'm greatful i stumbled upon the MS, i've learned so much from it..actually makes dianosis on any other fuel injected engine easier, since you really have the understanding of how it all works.

Maybe they were thinking Target AFR which M.S. does support but with a little time and a few logs you can get your afr's rock steady on your own.

 

[tkelly27]

This is how you tune MS

http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mtune.htm

There isn't really a "set it and forget it" for speed density.

 

[mobythevan]

I'm up to 18K miles on MS v2.2 hardware now. I did have one IAT sensor fail, other than that it has been great.