Megasquirt ECU, hmmm...

[exiletalon]

$200, for a stand-alone ECU, only catch is that you have to build it yourself. I find that appealing, b/c I am confident in building to the specs they have listed on the website. My question is how do they work with DSM's, I have seen them run, but have never heard much. Are they effective, is it difficult to tune, hows the install. Basically is it worth it, a standalone ECU for less than a new SAFC-2.
Thank you.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

The tuning interface (MegaTune) is pretty user friendly and straight-forward. Plus, there is a ton of information out there on the MS forums (http://www.megasquirt.info/) if you ever hit any snags.

For the 2G N/T, they're pretty much our only option, since no other manufacturer makes a plug and play standalone for us, and all the universal standalones are insanely overpriced. There are some 2GNTers putting down some serious power with MS (enough to warrant 1000cc/min+ injectors).

Since MS is basically a universal system, I can confidently say that you should be able to expect similar performance gains.

You can have further control over your engine using either the MS-II chip, or the MSnS-E code, which supports spark control (necessary for very high boost).

If you're good with electronics and soldering, then I say go for it. The bare unit can definetly be had for under $200 (if you build it yourself). Just remember that you'll need to make/buy a wiring harness, a case, a few sensors (IAT, ECL... nothing expensive), an AFPR if you don't have on already, and a few small things that you can't really plan for.

Read as much as you can at the Megasquirt website before you start and you should be fine.

I'll be building a few of these in the coming months, so if you need any help, just drop me a line.

 

[exiletalon]

ok, I read up why cant I use some things with the v2, also, can I get a complete, pre-assembled kit, that comes with EVERYTHING, I just need to assemble it.
What would be the best setup for:
18G-with 20g wheel
650cc
190-rewired
AFPR
20-25psi
91pump
FMIC,3"exhaust,etc...
what should I get to properly run all of this, whats best?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Here's what I would run if I were you...

V3 Board (the latest board, comes with all the features, etc.)
MS-I chip (the older chip, but the only one that currently supports MSnS-E)
Aeromotive 1:1 AFPR
Wideband O2 (whichever one you want, as long as it has a 5V output)
IAT/CTS (you need these regardless)
A wiring harness

That's pretty much all you'll need to get started with MS. Oh, and you'll also need a laptop.

I'd just do fuel management at first, then start using spark later. From what I understand, the configuration of the 4G63 ingition system makes it pretty easy to use MS to control spark.

 

[exiletalon]

ok, I have a weaponR AFPR1:1, how much does this complete setup cost ( estimate), and do I NEED a wideband o2, plus where can I get a wiring harness?

 

[exiletalon]

I have a labtop, why do I need the MSv1 chip, If I get the v3?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

The chip and the board are two separate things... There are currently three boards (V1, V2.2 and V3.0) and two chips (MS-I and MS-II). It's almost impossible to find the V1 board anymore, and so the V2.2 and V3.0 are your only choices.

The V3.0 is newer and more available, so it just makes sense to go this route.

As for the chip, like I said earlier, the MS-II chip is newer, and it has a lot of nice features, but the MS-I chip is the only one that can support the MSnS-E (MegasquirtNSpark-Extra) code, which is my preferred method for controlling spark. The MS-II might be able to control the 4G63's ignition system (I know it cannot control the 420A's system), but I'm not sure... that'd be a question for the MS forums.

You don't absolutely need a wideband O2. MS can run on a narrowband, but it kind of seems silly to "tune" your engine using something so un-precise.

I'd say the bare ECU unit will cost ~$200 (this is if you build it yourself). The sensors, wiring harness and case will be another ~$100 (depending on whether or not you make your own harness and where you get the sensors/case from). Total cost (taking into consideration that you already have an AFPR, etc.) should be around $300 or so.

 

[exiletalon]

where could I get the wiring harness? I am planning on building it myself, and how hard is it to install and tune?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

The wiring harness is a simple DB37 connector with all the appropriate wires coming from it, wrapped in some wire loom for protection. It shouldn't be that hard to make, but you should have several colors of wire on hand so things don't get confusing.

If you build everything properly, then the installation is nothing more than some wiring. You'll just have to place the ECU where you want it, and route and connect the wires to each of the necessary sensors.

 

[wishihadatalon]

I run it on my 1g awd and I love it. get the v2.2 kit from diyautotune.com Also if you plan on running that boost upgrade the map sensor. Using a wideband with something like this in my opinion is a must. Because you will be trying something that isn't done very much and with a narrow band you will have no real idea what you are actually running.


For the wiring harness use some of that nylon hard vacuum hose and cut a little V out of the end and get sharpie pens. Run a white wire through the hose with the marker in the v notch and you can make wires with striped of all sorts of colors.

 

[exiletalon]

after the cost of everything, its like $450?- maybe i'll just DSMLink, considering its only $100 more, and there is a vast amount more tuners for it out there.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I think you could have a complete MS unit for less than that, but I wouldn't blame you for going with DSMLink if you have the choice. The two systems are comparable in ability, but the installation of DSMLink is obviously much easier.

 

[brute]

Does Megasquirt have support for wideband? In other words, can you just get a unit like the LC-1, which does not have the gauge, it's meant to just plug into a program that can utilize it and datalog with it.

And I'm guessing MegaTune has an interface along the lines of DSM Link? Timing adjustments, curves, fuel adjustments, data logging capabilities?

 

[Maglin]

Well you need to read the MS forums. Stop just asking random simple questions. It's a full DIY standalone. Don't get the v2.2 board unless the V3.0 boards are on back order. The V3.0 boards have a better VR conditioner, Beefier ground circuits that are on a different plane, a Proto area to do some different mods. It's really much better. Also the power conditioner circuit is revised as well to help with random misfires and no starts from emi. I have about 5 or so people that want me to build them MSnS units. I believe the MS-II will handle a duel trigger ignition which is basicly what we have with our stock CAS.

If you wanted to go with a COP ignition get some 300M coils for it and build a grounding plate. Then just dissasemble your CAS and have a new trigger plate made that has 8 slots on the outside ring and you can have sequential COP ignition.

And if you get one built from DIYautotune you will still have to do some mods to the board to get it to work on the DSM. You are just best off building it yourself. Soldering isn't all that tough. Google it and do some practice for a few hours on various electronics that are broken around the house.

Also you will want to build the Stimulator as well. It's basicly a device to bench test the MS. It simulates the outputs of the engine for the PCM. It's not easy to tune. No standalone is. MS-I is easily converted to MS-II. So in the future when MS-II finally has knock control, boost control, and several other features that are handy in a turbo car it will only cost you about $150 for the new hardware to convert your box. And the MS-I uses a 68HC11 processor which is the same processor used in our stock cars. So it has the same limitations as far as injector pulse width goes. Most people don't need anything over 1300 cc injectors anyways. But the MS-II has a much faster processor that will make tuning your idle with HUGH injectors a much easier job.

And yes you want a WBO2. Don't need but it's good to have. You can use EGO correction and get a rough tune and then pretty much have it set-up for target AFR and fine tune your maps that way. Works out prettty well.

 

[sherloc123]

my friend uses megasquirt to tune his 90 probe gt and the entire car is ran off that. We built a custom wiring harness and eliminated his stock ecu. The car runs so good and Id rather run megasquirt then dsm link. Its alot more user friendly and the gauge set up for logging is better and the real life tuning makes for easy tuning

 

[aero_sallee]

my friend uses megasquirt to tune his 90 probe gt and the entire car is ran off that. We built a custom wiring harness and eliminated his stock ecu. The car runs so good and Id rather run megasquirt then dsm link. Its alot more user friendly and the gauge set up for logging is better and the real life tuning makes for easy tuning

I would in no way call it more user friendly. DSMlink is plug and play, and will run like a stock car with just a few settings. It just works. I do run MS though, and I love it. Its just not as user friendly as Link. It requires a custom harness, and you can't just input injector constants and have the car run.

 

[wishihadatalon]

Does Megasquirt have support for wideband? In other words, can you just get a unit like the LC-1, which does not have the gauge, it's meant to just plug into a program that can utilize it and datalog with it.

And I'm guessing MegaTune has an interface along the lines of DSM Link? Timing adjustments, curves, fuel adjustments, data logging capabilities?

Yes it supports various widebands. I do not have my laptop by me but I know it does the aem, zeitronix, and plx units.

 

[sherloc123]

I would in no way call it more user friendly. DSMlink is plug and play, and will run like a stock car with just a few settings. It just works. I do run MS though, and I love it. Its just not as user friendly as Link. It requires a custom harness, and you can't just input injector constants and have the car run.

the tables in ms are alot easier to tune with because you can see where its at in real life where as in dsmlink you have all those stupid lines in the graph. I like the gauges in ms and how you can actually tell what stuff is with out all the clutter. Also the tuning graph is nice becuase itll tell you where it has to be richened/leaned out and same with the timing aspect

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

I've never used or played around with a DSM Link, but I built and installed TJ's (wishihadatalon)'s Megasquirt. It's a great system, especially for the price. I run the MS on my 420a RS turbo as well, and I love it. There is constant devolopment and support for the MS, and now a few guys have gotten the hi resolution injection code running well( i run that in my 420a). The MS is by no means plug and play, which is it's downfall over the Link, but for the price, it just can't be beat. My Laser will be getting the MS install over the winter, and I cant wait for it to be tuned in well. The user interface in the MS isnt all that complicated, once you learn how to use it. Once you get the hang of it, its a cake walk to tune. As TJ has said, you really want a wideband o2 to tune the MS in, or any fully adjustable ECU for that matter..it makes a world of difference for the ease and simplicity of tuning. Also, there are LOTS of features that the MS can do now, such as a studderbox, boost control, knock detection, water/meth injectoion control, staged injection, full ignition control, shift lights, rad fan control, and the list goes on.. The install isnt that bad, and there are enough of us running the MS to help with an install question, and any tuning issues that can come up. BTW, TJ took 1st place this year at the Shootout in the Stock Apearing class..if that says anthing about the success of the MegaSquirt

 

[wishihadatalon]

I've never used or played around with a DSM Link, but I built and installed TJ's (wishihadatalon)'s Megasquirt. It's a great system, especially for the price. I run the MS on my 420a RS turbo as well, and I love it. There is constant devolopment and support for the MS, and now a few guys have gotten the hi resolution injection code running well( i run that in my 420a). The MS is by no means plug and play, which is it's downfall over the Link, but for the price, it just can't be beat. My Laser will be getting the MS install over the winter, and I cant wait for it to be tuned in well. The user interface in the MS isnt all that complicated, once you learn how to use it. Once you get the hang of it, its a cake walk to tune. As TJ has said, you really want a wideband o2 to tune the MS in, or any fully adjustable ECU for that matter..it makes a world of difference for the ease and simplicity of tuning. Also, there are LOTS of features that the MS can do now, such as a studderbox, boost control, knock detection, water/meth injectoion control, staged injection, full ignition control, shift lights, rad fan control, and the list goes on.. The install isnt that bad, and there are enough of us running the MS to help with an install question, and any tuning issues that can come up. BTW, TJ took 1st place this year at the Shootout in the Stock Apearing class..if that says anthing about the success of the MegaSquirt

Hey Matt you think that the v2.2 board is the problem with my stumble/misfire? Maglin up above posted about it and sounds like something we should check out.

 

[rigbender]

If you wanted to go with a COP ignition get some 300M coils for it and build a grounding plate. Then just dissasemble your CAS and have a new trigger plate made that has 8 slots on the outside ring and you can have sequential COP ignition.

Do you know of a site that shows how to do this? I will be getting MS for my talon here soon and I would like to run a COP system on my car, but haven't really found any info anywhere showing how to run this properly.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

This site has all relevant info/resources:
http://www.megasquirt.info/

MS can't do COP, as of yet, though. They're working on it, but it's not quite there (don't expect to be able to use a COP setup until at least mid-2007).

 

[wishihadatalon]

This site has all relevant info/resources:
http://www.megasquirt.info/

MS can't do COP, as of yet, though. They're working on it, but it's not quite there (don't expect to be able to use a COP setup until at least mid-2007).

Could you not run it just like a stock ecu run cop? I mean of course it wouldn't be as good as firing each coil independantly but seems like you could still do it.

 

[rigbender]

This site has all relevant info/resources:
http://www.megasquirt.info/

MS can't do COP, as of yet, though. They're working on it, but it's not quite there (don't expect to be able to use a COP setup until at least mid-2007).

I've been on there off and on there for the last year or so. I know that it hasn't been done yet, but I thought that someone had figured it out with the last quote that I posted. Oh well, guess the COP will just have to wait.

 

[mobythevan]

Hey Matt you think that the v2.2 board is the problem with my stumble/misfire? Maglin up above posted about it and sounds like something we should check out.

As a point of reference I have the v2.2 installed. I drive the car to work every day, have put a little over 10k miles so far since MS install. Everything has been stable.

Every install can be different so you may have some problem with the v2.2 board. I built a converter harness about 10" long that went from the DB37 to the original Talon ECU connector. I used an old ECU and unsoldered the connector. So I didn't do a new wiring harness. Just info about my setup so maybe it helps you isolate what your problem may be.