Maxing out 14b

[bacalhau16]

Wow, thats not too bad at all. I wouldnt mind get times like that out of my 14b, but then gain Im FWD. So that would be really hard to do.

 

[turboglenn]

turboglenn, Ive been following your other thread, and Im considering a setup similar to what you have. I would like to go pre-turbo with meth, and then a 50/50 after. I have a 14b right now, and wouldnt mind perhaps trying it out on it first.

Throw me a PM with some info on where you think I should purchse my meth kit from. I was considering the kit from Road Race engineering. I wouldnt mind trying to max out my 14b and would love to dyno the results as I go.

I would recommend a DevilsOwn kit. They are not complicated (none are really) and at least Chance prices his stuff accordingly unlike other manufacturers that have 10k a month in overhead and price their stuff way high because you're paying for the AEM name (just using AEM as an example because their kit is fairly high in price)

I would also just use a 50/50 mix pre and post turbo, keep it simple and it will be more reliable (old school rule called KISS = keep it simple stupid) not calling you stupid, jjust good rule of thumb

I was running 80/20 heavy on the meth. Now i'm back to running a 50/50 mix since i've got the proper sized nozzles for my application I am getting just as good of results on a mix as i was on pure meth and i'm using less due to the waters ability to do great things in small volume, whle hte meth adds fast cooling the water is doing some cooling but mainly shines the most in the combustion chamber, reqiring much less of it than meth to slow the burn of the fuel enough to effectively increase (or seamingly increasing) the octane of the fuel, thus stacving off detonation better than a ton of meth to raise octane count by a small margin.

Simply put, in my tests, meth cools best and offers good detonation protection, but requires large volumes and can get more dangerous to the novice tuner according to people that i've talked to that have witnessed people roasting their motors on pure meth... one reason of this is that methanol has a different set of AFR values than gasoline for where to set your cruise and wide open throttle AFR's... So when adding a LOT of meth on toipo of gas, you have to kind of "guesstimate" as to where to set the fuel ratio (some where between meth's afr and gasolines afr)when thinking about the #'s needed for meth to be "rich" and where your gas needs to be to be considered safely rich as well. I haven't seen hadcore data on this, but i do believe that meth can be very dangerous when not used correctly.


50/50 mix doesn't get things as cool, and is similarly effective but rewuiring less amounts injected for the same detonation prevention qualities

Pure water, did not knock at all (meaning it was doing great at slowing the fuel burn and keeping it under control at all times) Which is great considering it failed horribly on cooling compared to meth or a meth mix. The lowest temps i could get with water alone pre-turbo and post turbo togehter was 140*...Best on meth alone was 104* and with a water mix of 50/50 i was seeing right around 118*.. All of these emasures are without an intercooler, and are figures of the coolest air reading after boost built and the motor was spinning good and hard along with giving the liquids time to work and have the results visible on a data log.

I think a 50/50 mix with a small nozzle (maybe an M1 or M2) pre turbo and another maybe M3 or 5 max post turbo and post intercooler. This should give you the best combination of the abilities of the liquids while keeping it safe. a small amount of water pre-turbo will be easily kept as a vapor preventing puddling in the inter-cooler (this is theory though so don't blame me if something goes wrong) Not saying it will, but we all take chances with out motors everytime we go WOT, so we might as well, test, experiemtn and learn the most we can while taking these chances to better not only our knowledge, but our motors chance of survival..best of luck to you!

 

[chavez408]

How long does a tank full of meth last on your car? Just an estimate. While daily driving and racing at the track?

 

[desolateboosted]

I'm currently maxing out a 14b

Running with no actuator pressure (line disconnected)

It spikes to around 22-24psi then QUICKLY drops down to 16-17psi around 5k and up.

Running 2.5 inch long intercooler pipes with FMIC

 

[ilikespeeding]

Im holding at 25-26 psi on my 14b.

 

[turboglenn]

How long does a tank full of meth last on your car? Just an estimate. While daily driving and racing at the track?

Depends on what nozzles i'm running. Back when i had an M7 in there it lasted about a tank of gas or more (i have the 2 qt tank). Now that i'm running a 7 and 5 together i can empty the tank in an afternoon of pulls just getting the AFR's dialed in, so about 2 tanks of meth or 1 gallon to 12 gallons of gas...not bad considering the price of E85 when you comopare consumption and availability of it compared to regular gasoline. I'd rather run E85, but if i do i'll be burning almost 2x as much as gas, and at 2.85 a gallon, there's no savings there IMO(actually costs more due to consumption). But to add meth on top of regular pump gas seems to be very effective and a lot cheaper, as it gives almost race gas results without the race gas cost.

 

[bacalhau16]

turboglenn, thanks for the info. I have been following your other thread as well. I really hope to get to the dyno this week, and see what Im starting with. I need a few things though, mainly tires, as spinning in first and second is really kind of aggreviating and really starting to turn me off. I'll post my results and see what I got to compare with.

 

[chavez408]

How much is a gallon of meth? $40?
Is there a larger tank than 2qrts

 

[bastard dsm]

i made 300hp at 15psi on 6cm housing(14b), after that i was running about 20psi but didnt dyno it again.
i also made 371hp on a small 16g 6cm housing at 19psi, now im making 445hp on a 18g sl2 28psi-25psi.

 

[turboglenn]

A gallon of meth runs 3.45 at the local speed shop, or you can buy it 12 ounces at a time in yellow bottles called HEET gasline antifreeze at walmart (dont' get red bottles, it's teh worng stuff)

 

[dsmsucks]

Throw a 7cm^2 turbine housing on there from a 16g variant. The 14b compressor will flow ~300whp.

At what boost would you think this is possible. I brought a used turbine housing a couple of years ago and just looked to see what it was. 7cm housing baby I have the car at 16psi now but I know Im not making 300whp. i just recieved my 2g maf and going to be getting 550cc injectors, 2g fpr, safc and logger.

 

[Joesmoke]

I would say that my 14b was happiest at 20 psi BUT...

what made the biggest difference was running the meth injection. That allowed the 14b to be out of its performance envelope, but not just stuff hot air. It also allowed an aggresive timing curve. It also allowed me to lean out the fuel. So once again, maxing out an engine with a 14b on it took a combination.

Actually, the hotter intake charge from the hot 14b and stock sidemount worked really well with the meth. Easier to tune with then a big FMIC.

 

[T9S1i]

How much is a gallon of meth? $40?
Is there a larger tank than 2qrts

Check out ERC racing fuels on Lewelling road or street in San Leandro. Its the only place in the bay area that i could find methanol at.

Its $3.xx a gallon there.

I have about 4 gallons sitting at my house that im probably never going to use again. If you want it PM me and i'll give it to ya and a metal 5 gallon can for cheap. (i un-installed my methanol injection setup)

 

[bacalhau16]

I would say that my 14b was happiest at 20 psi BUT...

what made the biggest difference was running the meth injection. That allowed the 14b to be out of its performance envelope, but not just stuff hot air. It also allowed an aggresive timing curve. It also allowed me to lean out the fuel. So once again, maxing out an engine with a 14b on it took a combination.

Actually, the hotter intake charge from the hot 14b and stock sidemount worked really well with the meth. Easier to tune with then a big FMIC.

See, then perhaps you shouldve been using more water to lower the AIT, and try and reduce knock, then just using meth to raise the octane level, and lean it out. I have a 14b with a big FMIC, and would use a good 50/50 split if and when I install.

 

[dsmsucks]

i made 300hp at 15psi on 6cm housing(14b), after that i was running about 20psi but didnt dyno it again.
i also made 371hp on a small 16g 6cm housing at 19psi, now im making 445hp on a 18g sl2 28psi-25psi.

wow you made 300hp with a 6cm housing at 15psi. What other work did you have dont. You have to be one hell of a tuner

 

[bacalhau16]

Actually, that is some pretty good numbers. What other mods did you have to make 300whp with a 14b?

 

[Gooberlog]

I've run 12.47 @109 on a ported 14b at 22psi on falling to 20 on a supra sidmount.

I had similar results with my 14b.
Ported 14b w/ 7cm turbine housing at 25psi on race gas falling off to 22psi by redline w/ a supra SMIC.

BTW: that was with a Walbro 255low pressure pump WITH A STOCK fuel pressure regulator. Tuned the car with SAFC and pocket logger. This was also a daily driver with no issues.

 

[Gooberlog]

that set up ran 12.42 @112 then i swaped in a 16g retuned and it eventually went down to 12.003 @114
dynoed 273awhp with the 14b but riched it up slightly and made 269awhp