Making a Cruiser

[abaddon_baliel]

OK, I've thought it over a lot and initially I wanted a track-ready, 10 second car for absolutely no reason at all. I'll never go to the track in this car, it's my DD, I'm not going to convert it to AWD, it's a Spyder, weight is against me, and I simply don't have the money/knowledge/resources for that goal. I've come to terms with this, and am now making a cruiser. My goal now is to get as much performance out of this car to make it a very fun, fast, responsive DD with as little cash spent as possible.

I want 350-400whp (400 might be a little too much for this car, I'm used to driving high HP muscle cars and it's not much at all in those cars) cruiser that can still stomp on the occasional honda queer. I like to drive fast, but as I've stated before I'll probably never take it to the track because I simply can't afford to replace anything if it breaks.

My questions:
1) With 350whp, what is the fastest possible time I could get if I were to go to the track, assuming 1/4 mile, proper suspension, good driver, etc.

2) I'm not really into all the technical stuff, it's just not my thing. I think DSMlink (or ECMlink) will be a little overwhelming and honestly unnecessary for my goals. I'm never, ever, going to make this into a track car. I don't need all that tuning power. I want to run an Evo III 16g with supporting mods (I'll list them later), and wanted to know if a) I had to get a wideband still, and b) if SAFC-II would be a better option than ECMlink since I don't have a ton of money to spend on this, and again I don't need to really tune a whole lot.

3) If I had no tuning equipment in my car whatsoever, could I take it somewhere to get it tuned for me, just like a one-time thing and they get the car running how I like, so I don't have to have any equipment at all? When people talk about "taking their car to get tuned" I'm very confused as to what they mean. Does that mean you don't have to have anything, they hook it up to a machine and do all the work for you, but you're stuck with that one tune? Or are they just lazy, have the equipment, and don't want to do it themselves?

4) Since this is a cruiser, and my DD, it would be remiss if I didn't have A/C. Is there any way for me to retain my A/C with the fmic I have listed? Also, if I have to do away with the A/C, will the heat still work? I ask this because I used to make HVAC units for Honda, and it was all one unit. If you disabled any part of it, none of it would work. I have no idea what the hvac for the 4G63 is like. I would like to keep as many "luxury" parts working as possible (especially cruise control). Will there be any problems with this?

Here is the list of mods I'm getting for my ride, it's in the format I'm using as a buying guide so if it seems jumbled to you, I apologize.

EVOIII Big 16G turbo $500
SSAutochrome fmic $245
FP exhaust manifold $280 (ceramic coated by swain tech $150)
1G intake manifold $40
FP DSM Aluminum Intake pipe $79
Exhaust heat shield $30
Custom 3" turbo-back exhaust $200
CF exhaust tip 4" $30
Tanabe Sustec Pro S-OC II coilovers $780
Crower Stage 2 272/272 cams $357
Crower valve spring & ti retainers $230
SPEC Stage 3+ clutch kit $504
Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel $215.99
Fluidyne Radiator $390
Flex-A-Lite Fans $395
Mishimoto Silicone Hose Kit $81
FIC 750cc injectors $284.99
FPR return line kit $219
Fuel feed line kit $85
Walbro fuel pump kit $100 (255lph)

Now, please take the time (if you're going to reply) and look that list over, and tell me if I have anything unnecessary, and what part you would substitute it with. Or if I forgot something, please list it. Some parts on there (such as the radiator and accessories) I'm not sure if I'm getting, but they're on the list for me to keep in mind. Remember, I've said it several times, but this will NEVER be a track car. I do want it to be fast, but functional.

I'm coming from a 95 Eclipse GS so this engine is still fairly new to me. I did some work on that one, and my wife's (who has an RS) but I have little to no knowledge first-hand on the "bulletproof" 4G63.

Thank you for taking the time to read this long post, any and all constructive input will be greatly appreciated. Again, thanks all and I am looking forward to your replies.

-Josh

 

[mike96]

there really aren't a hole lot of options for tuning when it comes to that 97 ECU that is in your car now. about the only options are to have it converted to an Eprom style ecu and use ECMlink, use a SAFC, or completely switch it out for something else. if you really aren't to into the technical part of tuning and you think you will be more comfortable with taking it to someone to have it tuned then i would spend a bit of time and call some of the performance shops that specialize in tuning Evo's and see where is a good place to go to have it tuned. then call them and find out if they have the ability to tune the 98/99 DSM ecu (all they need is an OP2.0 cable and the correct definition). that will tell you if you can look for a 98/99 ecu or an EVO8 ECU and have them tune it for you. that would definitely be the easiest and cheapest way to do it (hardware wise anyway, tuning is a different story). it will cost you as much as a SAFC... maybe even less depending. a good tuning shop should have some type of temp WB they can install for tuning, maybe.

 

[tazndrew04]

are you sticking with the 2ga throttle body or switching it up to a 1g n/t and having it rebuilt didnt have that posted just the 1g intake manifold

 

[1997_GSX]

EVOIII Big 16G turbo $500
Ported 2G O2 Housing or an O2 Dump which will help the 16g boost level from spiking, I have used this piece for the price they are nice and last a while.
Dejon Tool 2.5" J-Pipe $80
OFH SS Oil feed line for the 16g
2G VR Speed FMIC /these are good and reliable I have one on my brothers tsi $250
Greddy Type S or RS Stock leaks, you want to recirculate
FP exhaust manifold $280 (ceramic coated by swain tech $150) Make sure you get the bolt kit the 2 front ones are shorter than stock. Plus they are getting old and break.
1G Throttlebody $40 make sure to get a 2.0L and make sure its from a 91-94 the 90s are useless a rebuild wouldn't hurt because the seals are old / start leaking, also make sure you gasket match your 2g intake manifold where the tb attaches to get the maximum gain from the larger tb
FP DSM Aluminum Intake pipe $79 Make sure you get the Recic model
Custom 3" turbo-back exhaust $200
CF exhaust tip 4" $30
Tanabe Sustec Pro S-OC II coilovers $780
Camber kit for the rear at least
Crower Stage 2 272/272 cams $357
Crower valve spring & ti retainers $230
ACT 2100 w/ Organic Disk $420
Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel $215.99
OEM TOB ACT are junk
Full Stainless Clutch line
CXRacing Radiator $149
2 x 12" SPAL Fans 2x $59
Fan ties to attach to radiator $cheap like 5 on ebay
Mishimoto Silicone Hose Kit $81 Or Gates racing, cheaper if you don't mind the blue. Might as well replace the Heater core hoses with OEM since your draining the coolant.
FIC 750cc injectors $284.99
FPR return line kit $219
Fuel feed line kit $85
Walbro fuel pump kit $100 (255lph)


Tuning:
DSMLink V3 Lite if you are running the 750ccs will make your car more drivable and make more power than a SAFC. $375 + EPROM ECU + Socketing Service and Replace Caps
AEM Wideband or Innovative LC-1 Wideband
Boost Gauge, Autometer or AEM

Maintenance:
OEM Timing Belt with Accessories
Coolant Flush
Oil Change "duh"
Transmission Flush Redline MT-90


I changed some stuff around for you to make it cheaper and added parts that you need to install the 16g. I wouldn't go any bigger on the clutch heavy pressure plates are known to help crank walk. The CX Racing radiator is a good piece also I have one on my car.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

are you sticking with the 2ga throttle body or switching it up to a 1g n/t and having it rebuilt didnt have that posted just the 1g intake manifold

I already have a 1ga throttle body and 1g intake manifold, I just forgot to remove that from the list. Sorry! Thanks for catching it though. Everything I have on my car now is listed on my mods page. It's not much, just some hard piping, an AEM power intake and the 1g parts.

@97 GSX... I have ss clutch lines already, and the good 1g throttle body, i have a 1g intake manny but I haven't put either on my car yet, would the 1g tb work better with a 2g intake or should i go ahead and put on the 1g intake?

Also, you recommend the ACT 2100 over the SPEC stage 3 clutch.. is there a particular reason for this?

As for the flywheel, I believe you said oem, act, etc suck, so I should stick with fidanza then correct?

Also, one of the main points of this was so I don't have to get dmslink and a laptop, etc. And I'm not very knowledgeable about tuning, so I was thinking of the cheaper alternative since I'm not going to make a ton of power, which would be the AFC-Neo by Apexi. Do I need more than what the apexi offers? Should I go down to a lower cc injector? Like around 660?

I want something that doesn't require a whole lot of money being spent into tuning, since I don't really know how to do it and I'm only going to do it once, I'm not interested really in messing with things and changing tunes a lot. That's kind of why I wanted to go the afc-neo route, as I've heard with the kind of power I'm going to be getting from a evoIII 16g I won't really need to get a dmslink of any kind, since the AFC can handle what it requires from my car, as far as tuning goes.

Do I need the eprom ecu to even use the afc? That would suck. And if I found an evo 8 ecu, is it a direct replacement, or will it cause issues starting out? I'm assuming the evo 8 ecu would be ok for the afc. As I've said, tuning if kind of confusing to me and I don't have a ton of money to throw around with it.

Thank you for the quick reply and the list revision!

 

[mike96]

Also, one of the main points of this was so I don't have to get dmslink and a laptop, etc. And I'm not very knowledgeable about tuning, so I was thinking of the cheaper alternative since I'm not going to make a ton of power, which would be the AFC-Neo by Apexi. Do I need more than what the apexi offers? Should I go down to a lower cc injector? Like around 660?

I want something that doesn't require a whole lot of money being spent into tuning, since I don't really know how to do it and I'm only going to do it once, I'm not interested really in messing with things and changing tunes a lot. That's kind of why I wanted to go the afc-neo route, as I've heard with the kind of power I'm going to be getting from a evoIII 16g I won't really need to get a dmslink of any kind, since the AFC can handle what it requires from my car, as far as tuning goes.

Do I need the eprom ecu to even use the afc? That would suck. And if I found an evo 8 ecu, is it a direct replacement, or will it cause issues starting out? I'm assuming the evo 8 ecu would be ok for the afc. As I've said, tuning if kind of confusing to me and I don't have a ton of money to throw around with it.

Thank you for the quick reply and the list revision!

no you don't need an eprom ecu to tune with if all you plan on using is a SAFC and yes you can use an EVO8 ecu with the SAFC but, you wont be able to go as far as you could if you had your car tuned. they say the max size injectors you should use with a SAFC is 650, there are probably some ways around that (evo/3000gt MAF for increased air flow) but you will be messing with the airflow signal that the SAFC could start messing with other things.

people like to toss link in there because it has been around for so long and has one of the best dedicated forums for tuning that yo can find. you no longer need an eprom ecu to use it, they have a conversion available if they happen to have any of the boards in stock. the conversion alone cost as much as finding an eprom ecu or an evo ecu.

the EVO8 ecu is almost a direct drop in. 97 i believe is when they started using the cam position sensor at the back of the head next to the throttle body (not entirely sure but that sounds correct from some of the other discussions) if that is true then all you need to do is swap around about 6 wires at the ecu which takes about 10 minutes. the ecu from the 98/99 eclipse would be a more direct swap in, you wouldn't need to do anything wire wise. the difference is the hardware you need to tune with is a little different. the 98/99 ecu needs an open port 2.0 adapter to flash with which cost $200 where as the EVO8 flash able is only $85. you can use the same cable logg with and the tuning software is free, the logging software is $25. so for about the same cost as a SAFC neo you could get a new ecu (EVO8), cable, and software make the necessary changes to get your car up and running and be able to drive your car to somewhere to have it tuned. assuming you have a computer that you could put in the garage for a few minutes that is. or a new ecu (98/99 eclipse) and wait to install the injectors until you get to the tuning shop (or have them do it) and them let them go with the tuning and spend maybe a little more than what you would have spent on a SAFC and have something far superior.

 

[Novec64]

FP 68 HTA
Punishment racing FMIC kit (easier install)
FP exhaust manifold $280 (ceramic coated by swain tech $150)
Evo III intake manifold
1g Throttle body
Evo MAS
FP DSM Aluminum Intake pipe $79
Stock heat shield
Megan racing stainless exhaust
Megan racing o2 housing
Eibach prokit w/ Tokico Illuminas
FP2 cams
Evo VIII springs and retainers
SPEC Stage 3+ clutch kit $504
Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel $215.99
Fluidyne Radiator $390
Flex-A-Lite Fans $395
Mishimoto Silicone Hose Kit $81
FIC 750cc injectors $284.99
FPR return line kit $219 STM
Fuel feed line kit $85 STM
Walbro fuel pump kit $100 (255lph)

You won't find better customer support than ECM link. Just post everything you log, on their forums, and they pretty much do it for you.

 

[clockworktoy]

A 1g intake manifold on a 2g head is going to KILL your flow, lots of work for loss of power. Also your not gonna be making that much power (350whp) on a 16g on pump gas or much more on any type of fuel for that matter, and afc's were cool back in 1999 just like body kits and underglow was cool.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

I don't exactly think afcs were cool for exterior ricer reasons.... it's an alternative for a low-power setup.

Well I guess I'm going to fork out the extra money and do ECMlink v3 lite... I'll have them socket and eprom my ecu, it's gonna cost a little over 500 but then I don't have to worry about it ever again, so meh. I'm buying a shitty little laptop for it to keep in my car.

I have changed some parts around based on your guys' recommendations. The Punishment Racing intercooler I think is superior to my previous choice, I'm doing the FP 68 HTA now, in case I want to eek some more power out of my setup.

@Novec -- The stock 2g MAS cuts out around 52lb/min, which I will never be running, so I figured I'd be fine just sticking with that MAS.

What intake manifold should I run with the 1g throttle body? I was given the 1g intake and tb with the car, so no money lost on my part. I read that the 1g intake was superior to the 2g stock intake, so I figured I'd eventually install in.

Also, does the 68 HTA bolt right on like a 16g would? It seems to be from the same housing. J-pipe, of course, but I already have one of those.

Back @ Novec... which STM kits in particular were you recommending?

Also, I was wanting the turbo grind cams from crower.. I'm assuming the FP cams are roughly the same. I need to select intake and exhaust, so should I get FP2 or 2x? I don't need to upgrade springs for 2, but 2x I do. Is there a benefit from upgrading springs and getting 2x? A noticeable one?

Thanks for the replies and help!

 

[clockworktoy]

I didn't mean it was only for looks, the point i was trying to make was that for that kind of power an afc is crap. You have made a better choice in turbo's and that will get you to your goal. If you want a 1g throttle body, then just port the inlet on your 2g manifold and call it a day.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

I was planning on getting this for the wideband 02.. Tinted 7 Series Digital Wideband Air Fuel Gauge

would that be okay with running ECMlink v3lite?

If you want a 1g throttle body, then just port the inlet on your 2g manifold and call it a day.

Would the evo3 intake manifold be a better option (better as in superior to the 2g ported manifold)?

And yes, I knew what you meant about the afc, just wanted to toy with what you said. I know they are crap for higher power, but I was really hoping I could eek by with one since it would be less money. But I'll just go with ecmlink anyways and get a shitty laptop, take it to a shop and they can tune it the first time to what I want, and I'll learn about tuning through forums if I ever need to change something.

When you get it tuned, it stays that way until you change it, right? Like, it's not a temporary thing?


EDIT: So about that evoIII intake.... apparently they're pretty hard to find... Anyone have a lead on one? Until I can find one, I'll just port the oem intake.

EDIT EDIT: Jesus christ! I just hopped on ebay hoping to find one around 150... ha! Cheapest one I saw was 350, with most being in the 700-900 range. That's ridiculous! These were selling for 250 when they were first known to work on our cars, and that's supposed to be the high price. I'll just go to a junk yard or I'll total some evo3 around town here and scoop it when the guy takes it to the junk yard. XD

 

[1997_GSX]

I already have a 1ga throttle body and 1g intake manifold, I just forgot to remove that from the list. Sorry! Thanks for catching it though. Everything I have on my car now is listed on my mods page. It's not much, just some hard piping, an AEM power intake and the 1g parts.

@97 GSX... I have ss clutch lines already, and the good 1g throttle body, i have a 1g intake manny but I haven't put either on my car yet, would the 1g tb work better with a 2g intake or should i go ahead and put on the 1g intake?

Also, you recommend the ACT 2100 over the SPEC stage 3 clutch.. is there a particular reason for this?

As for the flywheel, I believe you said oem, act, etc suck, so I should stick with fidanza then correct?

Also, one of the main points of this was so I don't have to get dmslink and a laptop, etc. And I'm not very knowledgeable about tuning, so I was thinking of the cheaper alternative since I'm not going to make a ton of power, which would be the AFC-Neo by Apexi. Do I need more than what the apexi offers? Should I go down to a lower cc injector? Like around 660?

I want something that doesn't require a whole lot of money being spent into tuning, since I don't really know how to do it and I'm only going to do it once, I'm not interested really in messing with things and changing tunes a lot. That's kind of why I wanted to go the afc-neo route, as I've heard with the kind of power I'm going to be getting from a evoIII 16g I won't really need to get a dmslink of any kind, since the AFC can handle what it requires from my car, as far as tuning goes.

Do I need the eprom ecu to even use the afc? That would suck. And if I found an evo 8 ecu, is it a direct replacement, or will it cause issues starting out? I'm assuming the evo 8 ecu would be ok for the afc. As I've said, tuning if kind of confusing to me and I don't have a ton of money to throw around with it.

Thank you for the quick reply and the list revision!

Ok I had a Spec Clutch and the thing was just plain junk, it was adj properly, broken in properly and started slipping as soon as I ran 20 psi on a 54 trim.

The Fidanza is a good flywheel, I have one. The ACT 2100 clutch is more than enough for your power levels. The ACT Throw Out Bearing is what is junk, get an OEM one.

I would not get an SAFC, I had one it required cutting and soldering it was a pain and I had to retune almost every time I drove the car. Don't hack your harness up.


If you have to pick up a used version of link v3 of the forums, you can get them bundled for around $450 - $550 if you shop around thats for the full version.

The reason I dropped the radiator and the fans is they are expensive, what I listed will save you money to use on the ECMlink setup.

I have had most of the parts that I listed at one time or another.

As for the EVO 8 ECU, sell it, you have to buy a cable to hook it up and I think it is $75, just get the ECMlink, I have met and know the owners of ECMlink they are great guys, down to earth and will help you till your car is fixed, I have NEVER seen a company have as great support as them.

Just in case they aren't able to answer immediately a lot of DSM Wisemen are on there, they are very helpful and have been around the block quite a few times, many have 700+ whp cars.

I don't exactly think afcs were cool for exterior ricer reasons.... it's an alternative for a low-power setup.

Well I guess I'm going to fork out the extra money and do ECMlink v3 lite... I'll have them socket and eprom my ecu, it's gonna cost a little over 500 but then I don't have to worry about it ever again, so meh. I'm buying a shitty little laptop for it to keep in my car.

I have changed some parts around based on your guys' recommendations. The Punishment Racing intercooler I think is superior to my previous choice, I'm doing the FP 68 HTA now, in case I want to eek some more power out of my setup.

@Novec -- The stock 2g MAS cuts out around 52lb/min, which I will never be running, so I figured I'd be fine just sticking with that MAS.

What intake manifold should I run with the 1g throttle body? I was given the 1g intake and tb with the car, so no money lost on my part. I read that the 1g intake was superior to the 2g stock intake, so I figured I'd eventually install in.

Also, does the 68 HTA bolt right on like a 16g would? It seems to be from the same housing. J-pipe, of course, but I already have one of those.

Back @ Novec... which STM kits in particular were you recommending?

Also, I was wanting the turbo grind cams from crower.. I'm assuming the FP cams are roughly the same. I need to select intake and exhaust, so should I get FP2 or 2x? I don't need to upgrade springs for 2, but 2x I do. Is there a benefit from upgrading springs and getting 2x? A noticeable one?

Thanks for the replies and help!

The 68hta is a better turbo for the money. Get your fuel lines from extreme psi the only part you will need to upgrade on your feed line is from the stock filter to the rail, this replaces the most restrictive part, the banjo bolt. I was flowing 49lbs a minute on a 255 with stock feed line fyi.

Run your 2g Intake mani and port match the throttle body thats all you will ever need, if you want more flow get a JMF Street SMIM.

I was planning on getting this for the wideband 02.. Tinted 7 Series Digital Wideband Air Fuel Gauge

would that be okay with running ECMlink v3lite?



Would the evo3 intake manifold be a better option (better as in superior to the 2g ported manifold)?

And yes, I knew what you meant about the afc, just wanted to toy with what you said. I know they are crap for higher power, but I was really hoping I could eek by with one since it would be less money. But I'll just go with ecmlink anyways and get a shitty laptop, take it to a shop and they can tune it the first time to what I want, and I'll learn about tuning through forums if I ever need to change something
When you get it tuned, it stays that way until you change it, right? Like, it's not a temporary thing?


EDIT: So about that evoIII intake.... apparently they're pretty hard to find... Anyone have a lead on one? Until I can find one, I'll just port the oem intake.

EDIT EDIT: Jesus christ! I just hopped on ebay hoping to find one around 150... ha! Cheapest one I saw was 350, with most being in the 700-900 range. That's ridiculous! These were selling for 250 when they were first known to work on our cars, and that's supposed to be the high price. I'll just go to a junk yard or I'll total some evo3 around town here and scoop it when the guy takes it to the junk yard. XD

Just get the V3lite its is more than enough for your needs, the stock MAF will be fine.

Glowshift gauges are junk just get the AEM and be done with it, its less stuff you have to buy, the LC-1 is a sensor and a controller then you have to buy their gauge.

Forget the EVO 3 IM, 2g is fine for now, refer above about the JMF Street later down the road.

PM me if you need any more help, I am glad to help, I know what it was like to be new.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Ok I had a Spec Clutch and the thing was just plain junk, it was adj properly, broken in properly and started slipping as soon as I ran 20 psi on a 54 trim.

The Fidanza is a good flywheel, I have one. The ACT 2100 clutch is more than enough for your power levels. The ACT Throw Out Bearing is what is junk, get an OEM one.

I would not get an SAFC, I had one it required cutting and soldering it was a pain and I had to retune almost every time I drove the car. Don't hack your harness up.

The 68hta is a better turbo for the money. Get your fuel lines from extreme psi the only part you will need to upgrade on your feed line is from the stock filter to the rail, this replaces the most restrictive part, the banjo bolt. I was flowing 49lbs a minute on a 255 with stock feed line fyi.

Run your 2g Intake mani and port match the throttle body thats all you will ever need, if you want more flow get a JMF Street SMIM.

Glowshift gauges are junk just get the AEM and be done with it, its less stuff you have to buy, the LC-1 is a sensor and a controller then you have to buy their gauge.

Forget the EVO 3 IM, 2g is fine for now, refer above about the JMF Street later down the road.

PM me if you need any more help, I am glad to help, I know what it was like to be new.

Hey, thank you for all the help. I hadn't looked at parts in a long, long time and forgot what TOB meant, but yeah I had planned on using the oem one, thanks for the reminder. I'm really surprised the SPEC did that to you, I read a ton of reviews before my decision and thought it was a good choice.. I'll read up on the ACT again and do some research before I commit to that part, but it's looking more in favor of that now. Will it still feel rubbery and spongy like the stock clutch does, or will it finally take some force to push it down? I'm a more powerfully-built guy, and I exert a lot more strength than I should, so a harder clutch would be a nice plus for me. The stock one feels like there's nothing there.

Mainly I was replacing the fuel lines for looks, I doubt anything I do is actually going to cause me to have to upgrade. So are you saying to only replace the feed line? I know they tell you to get stainless lines for running alcohol or e85, but that information is junk. The stock lines are fine for those applications, as those substances aren't nearly as corrosive to actually eat those lines. I think pressure would be a more concerning issue, in that case, what lines should I replace, in all? Aside from the feed lines you mentioned. I've changed my outlook a little since I first made this list, so looks aren't really priority anymore, and if I don't have to change anything I won't. Just let me know!

My last question I guess would be why are the glowshifts junk? I chose the one I posted in the link up there because it all came as one package -- the wideband o2 sensor, the controller, and the gauge, with wiring harness and everything for 190 bucks. I figured that's all you needed for wideband o2, and it had the look I wanted but I'm not opposed to changing to the AEM, just want to know a reason for doing so. I know a lot of people on here have the AEM UEGO system, just thought I'd be a little different.

Again, thanks for all your help. You've all gotten as much rep points from me as I can give, .

 

[1997_GSX]

Hey, thank you for all the help. I hadn't looked at parts in a long, long time and forgot what TOB meant, but yeah I had planned on using the oem one, thanks for the reminder. I'm really surprised the SPEC did that to you, I read a ton of reviews before my decision and thought it was a good choice.. I'll read up on the ACT again and do some research before I commit to that part, but it's looking more in favor of that now. Will it still feel rubbery and spongy like the stock clutch does, or will it finally take some force to push it down? I'm a more powerfully-built guy, and I exert a lot more strength than I should, so a harder clutch would be a nice plus for me. The stock one feels like there's nothing there.

Mainly I was replacing the fuel lines for looks, I doubt anything I do is actually going to cause me to have to upgrade. So are you saying to only replace the feed line? I know they tell you to get stainless lines for running alcohol or e85, but that information is junk. The stock lines are fine for those applications, as those substances aren't nearly as corrosive to actually eat those lines. I think pressure would be a more concerning issue, in that case, what lines should I replace, in all? Aside from the feed lines you mentioned. I've changed my outlook a little since I first made this list, so looks aren't really priority anymore, and if I don't have to change anything I won't. Just let me know!

My last question I guess would be why are the glowshifts junk? I chose the one I posted in the link up there because it all came as one package -- the wideband o2 sensor, the controller, and the gauge, with wiring harness and everything for 190 bucks. I figured that's all you needed for wideband o2, and it had the look I wanted but I'm not opposed to changing to the AEM, just want to know a reason for doing so. I know a lot of people on here have the AEM UEGO system, just thought I'd be a little different.

Again, thanks for all your help. You've all gotten as much rep points from me as I can give, .

When you get the AFPR it will come with a small length to hook it back to the stock metal return line, It will also have the braided ss lines from the rail.

If you have the money and want a feed line I would get this I built my own at Jegs but it was more expensive but I wanted nylon braided hose, so it wouldn't scratch up my polished parts.


Here is the AFPR that I have.

This wide-band has similar looks and is way more dependable and accurate. Its avail in red from the same seller

As for the clutch it will feel similar to stock a bit firmer but not much, The absolute biggest I would go is a ACT 2600 on a 7bolt because of the risk of crank-walk.

I have a 6 bolt and went with an un-sprung 4 puck ACT 3200, the biggest clutch ACT makes before going twin-disk, I absolutely love it but DO NOT recommend it for 7bolts.

Just shop around for the best deals, if you find someone you trust for injectors buy them used, its pretty hard to mess up an injector. I would watch used turbos though.

Ebay and extremepsi are your friends if you shop wisely, I deal a lot with extremepsi.com, I have over $7000 in receipts stored on their online server, they ship fast and are good to return stuff.

I installed the intercooler I listed on my brothers talon, its a good unit, the CXRacing Radiator I have on my car.

Stay with brand name turbos, wastegates, blowoff valves, AFPRs, watch ebays fuel pumps as some are chinese walbro knockoffs.

Oh and replace the gaskets and things like the but you know that!

Heres a picture of my engine bay to give you ideas, that radiator over flow is gone, I now have a polished aluminum Mark 7 unit. I am slowly taking away the blue couplers, radiator hoses, and valve cover. I am working on shaving a valve cover to polish like I did my turbo.

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Here is the linked fmic on my brothers talon, you have to cut a little bit out by your passenger headlight but I can link you a picture of what to cut. Its just a bit of useless sheet metal.

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[abaddon_baliel]

Very nice! Clean engine bay. Wish mine were half as clean, alas stock isn't all that good to look at. Looks like you have some sort of ignition control? Also, what exhaust manifold are you using? I looked for one like that (again, mainly for appearance) but couldn't find one. I found some tubular ones that just seemed weak, so figured they were crap. And about the coolant reservoir, I looked into getting one of those, you'll have to post a pic of yours so I can see what it looks like installed, but I bet it looks pretty sharp.

I think your link to the AFPR is missing...

And I had looked at innovate before, nice to know it's a good choice as it's in the same price range. I don't care much about looks on those, as they're going to be mounted in a dual guage bezel with my normal instruments. (this)

I also noticed you're using a lot of gate's belts. I just replaced my alternator with a h/o 135amp one for my system and the belt on it is still squealing after 2 months. Are these belts any better for that? Or should I just spray it and be done with it, haha.

And very nice looking turbo! It looks like you either did a lot of emissions pulling or you just tucked the hoses away nicely. I think I might just tuck, as this is my DD and I am concerned with mpg.

The fmic looks good, and I have no problem with cutting sheet metal... it's just dead weight anyways. I've always had a question about those, though... would it be better to put some kind of mesh grille in front of those, to kind of protect it? I'm going for a sleeper look, and figured I could use a mesh grille and paint it black so people couldn't as easily see that I have a fmic. Would this help or hurt me, or make no difference at all? I'm either going with a 2gb front bumper, or one from the ZEN body kit, as it most looks like stock. (Right now I have a aftermarket evo bumper on there from a bodykit, not a real evo. It looks alright, but I bought it for my wife's car so am putting it back on hers soon.)

Also, I noticed you have the basic hose running from your valve cover to the intake of the turbo.. here is a link that might help you a little bit -- Install a catch can for your DSM (2G)


Edit: I have another question (surprise!)... why do I need a camber kit, or do I? Assuming I go with these, do I need one? And if I do, is this ok? I wouldn't even know where to begin on installing or adjusting these, but I know a guy who is pretty much a suspension guru and will do it for me for free, or a beer.

Also, since I'm getting in the engine anyways for the cams and evo8 retainers, etc.. do I need to replace the pistons and connecting rods with something better? I would go with a eagle & JE setup like I had on my old GS, if I had to. This engine has about 170k on it so it might not be a bad idea to just rebuild it, but I don't want to waste money on superfluous things if I don't have to. Just lemme know!

These are the pistons... explain to me, if you would, what "bore" is.. I know boring something out means making it bigger, i.e., drilling it a bigger hole or making one where there was not previously. But what exactly does this have to do with this particular part, and how would one go about boring out an engine? I'm sure it's pretty expensive, but the only options this site gives me is .20 and .40 over, my engine is stock. A friend before told me the bore would make it so the piston has more room to travel, and that in some way is good. I'm not lookin' for a ton of power here, and I don't think I'd need to bore my engine out as I'm not racing it, but I think I might like to get these pistons because of my experience with them on my GS, and just as a security factor. While I can get these pistons with a stock bore, it also comes at the stock 9.0 compression ratio. I heard a lower compression, like the 8.5 is better for FI setups, not exactly sure why but I do remember reading it. Help?

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Well if anyone's been following, here is my final revised list of parts for my goal:

Engine
Bolt on:
FP 68 HTA $925
VRSF fmic $330 (Quality intercooler, short piping. Better than ebay crap)
FP exhaust manifold $280
EVO III Intake Manifold (Don't spend over $150 for this, use stock ported till then)
FP DSM Aluminum Intake pipe $79
Exhaust heat shield $30
Custom turbo-back exhaust $200
CF exhaust tip 4" $30
CX Racing radiator $110
2x 12" SPAL fans $120
Gates Racing hose kit $50
FIC 750cc injectors $284.99
STM fuel tank to rail kit $219
SS Fuel feed line kit $60
Walbro 255lph fuel pump kit $100
Prothane Motor Mounts $70

Suspension:
OBX Rear Camber Kit $125
Tokico Illumina suspension kit $544
Megan Racing Front & Rear strut bars $100

Transmission:
ACT 2600 clutch kit w/ OEM tob (steet disk) $470
Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel $215.99

Internals:
ACL Race Series Main Bearings $60 (I have a 7bolt with 170k miles, so this is a precaution)
ACL Race Series Rod Bearings $40
MAP high performance head studs $95
SCE ICS Copper headgasket $137
FP2 cams $400
EVO 8 Springs / Retainers $152
Eagle Rods $310
JE Pistons Pro Series FSR $550
Balance Shaft Eliminator Kit $25 (removal by PINA $300)

Engine Management:
ECMlink V3-lite $520 (socket, eprom service incl.)
Acer Aspire 2G $300 (win7, 2gRAM, 250gHDD)

Gauges & Misc.:
AEM Boost Display Gauge $145
Innovate LC1 LC-1 Wideband + DB Gauge Kit O2 $168
HKS Type-1 turbo timer w/ harness $170

Belts:
Gates Racing Timing Belt
Gates Racing Alternator Belt
Gates Racing P/S Belt

Sites I use:
extremepsi.com
andysautosport.com
cimotorsports.net
maperformance.com/dsm
forcedperformance.net
pinamotorsports.com
punishment-racing.com

I did splurge a little on some parts (such as the AEM boost gauge and turbo timer, the quality of the laptop) but that's just a matter of personal preference. A Dell Latitude D400 will work just fine, you can pick on up for about $100. Turbo timers just keep your car running for a minute to allow the turbo to cool off with the oil running through it. The boost gauge is purely preference, and I chose it for laser accuracy.

To answer some of my own questions earlier, compression is tricky for a turbo setup. Hondas run 10:x compression and up, and turbo them, but the longevity is unknown. I knew a guy whose Honda did 6s, but he went through 3 engines in one year. Our stock compression rate is somewhere like 8.5:1. Lower compression is generally accepted as better, but don't go too low. The pistons I went with are 9.0, and that's fine for me.

Just shop around for the best parts, consider your goal/application, and buy accordingly. Read up on all the information you need, ask for help before you buy, talk with the person you're buying from. Customer support goes a long way towards making your setup a headache or an enjoyable experience.

I never got my answer on the camber kits, but I'm sure some searching will provide answers for any of those who are interested. I'm getting one to be safe, as I know raising/lowering a car beyond factory specifications can be harmful to the structure.

Unless anyone else has something to add to this thread, my issue is RESOLVED. Just search, read, look for deals, ask questions, and if you don't know what you're doing, get a buddy who does or be prepared to pay someone so you don't #### everything up.

-Josh

 

[1997_GSX]

Very nice! Clean engine bay. Wish mine were half as clean, alas stock isn't all that good to look at. Looks like you have some sort of ignition control? Also, what exhaust manifold are you using? I looked for one like that (again, mainly for appearance) but couldn't find one. I found some tubular ones that just seemed weak, so figured they were crap. And about the coolant reservoir, I looked into getting one of those, you'll have to post a pic of yours so I can see what it looks like installed, but I bet it looks pretty sharp.
I think your link to the AFPR is missing...
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - FueLab "515" Complete Fuel Pressure Regulator Kit w/ Gauge: Mitsubishi Eclipse 90-99
And I had looked at innovate before, nice to know it's a good choice as it's in the same price range. I don't care much about looks on those, as they're going to be mounted in a dual guage bezel with my normal instruments. (this)
I also noticed you're using a lot of gate's belts. I just replaced my alternator with a h/o 135amp one for my system and the belt on it is still squealing after 2 months. Are these belts any better for that? Or should I just spray it and be done with it, haha.
They might, just make sure you set the proper tension, I am running a GM Saturn Alternator on my car with a parts store belt, the gates was a bit too small. The timing belt is a Greddy belt. The PS belt is a Gates belt for now.
And very nice looking turbo! It looks like you either did a lot of emissions pulling or you just tucked the hoses away nicely. I think I might just tuck, as this is my DD and I am concerned with mpg.
Yeah I hand polished it. All emissions are removed from my car. I run 1 O2 Sensor which is the wideband and no cat, all oem solenoids are gone. Gas mileage for me is a thing of the past, I don't care what it is as long as its fast.
The fmic looks good, and I have no problem with cutting sheet metal... it's just dead weight anyways. I've always had a question about those, though... would it be better to put some kind of mesh grille in front of those, to kind of protect it? I'm going for a sleeper look, and figured I could use a mesh grille and paint it black so people couldn't as easily see that I have a fmic. Would this help or hurt me, or make no difference at all? I'm either going with a 2gb front bumper, or one from the ZEN body kit, as it most looks like stock. (Right now I have a aftermarket evo bumper on there from a bodykit, not a real evo. It looks alright, but I bought it for my wife's car so am putting it back on hers soon.)
Put an OEM cover back on , its personal preference but the 2gb talons and eclipse look great the way they are from the factory.
Also, I noticed you have the basic hose running from your valve cover to the intake of the turbo.. here is a link that might help you a little bit -- Install a catch can for your DSM (2G)
I am running a JMF Catch can, it is in the stock SMIC location, it's a vented can with the PCV valve and the valve cover breather running to it. I am in the process of shaving and polishing a valve cover right now it will have an fittings welded to it and have proclassic nylon braided hoses running to the catch can in the future.
Edit: I have another question (surprise!)... why do I need a camber kit, or do I? Assuming I go with these, do I need one? And if I do, is this ok? I wouldn't even know where to begin on installing or adjusting these, but I know a guy who is pretty much a suspension guru and will do it for me for free, or a beer.
The camber kit is needed as 2gs don't have any adjustability for camber from the factory, your tires will sit like this "/ \" vs "| |" it will wear your tires unevenly and handle like crap.
Also, since I'm getting in the engine anyways for the cams and evo8 retainers, etc.. do I need to replace the pistons and connecting rods with something better? I would go with a eagle & JE setup like I had on my old GS, if I had to. This engine has about 170k on it so it might not be a bad idea to just rebuild it, but I don't want to waste money on superfluous things if I don't have to. Just lemme know!
You can pick up BC Springs and retainers on the forums used for $125 shipped usually they are better than the EVO springs.
These are the pistons... explain to me, if you would, what "bore" is.. I know boring something out means making it bigger, i.e., drilling it a bigger hole or making one where there was not previously. But what exactly does this have to do with this particular part, and how would one go about boring out an engine? I'm sure it's pretty expensive, but the only options this site gives me is .20 and .40 over, my engine is stock. A friend before told me the bore would make it so the piston has more room to travel, and that in some way is good. I'm not lookin' for a ton of power here, and I don't think I'd need to bore my engine out as I'm not racing it, but I think I might like to get these pistons because of my experience with them on my GS, and just as a security factor. While I can get these pistons with a stock bore, it also comes at the stock 9.0 compression ratio. I heard a lower compression, like the 8.5 is better for FI setups, not exactly sure why but I do remember reading it. Help?

I run 10:1 compression with methanol injection, I wouldn't recommend it for another street car unless you have e85 around you.
8.5 or 8.3:1 compression pistons are fine, I would just do a basic Arias Stock bore / Eagle rod combo.

Over boring usually takes place when the cylinder walls are nicked up or a bit out of round or tapered using a cylinder bore gauge. Sometimes if the nicks are too deep you have to replace the block or sleeve a block, common to Hondas but not DSMs.

All they do is make the cylinder a bit bigger to take out the imperfections, most people do a .20 over as is mine.
I would have the machine shop run a bore gauge though it to make sure everything checks out before ordering parts.

Well if anyone's been following, here is my final revised list of parts for my goal:

Engine
Bolt on:
FP 68 HTA $925
VRSF fmic $330 (Quality intercooler, short piping. Better than ebay crap)
FP exhaust manifold $280
EVO III Intake Manifold (Don't spend over $150 for this, use stock ported till then)
FP DSM Aluminum Intake pipe $79
Exhaust heat shield $30
Custom turbo-back exhaust $200
CF exhaust tip 4" $30
CX Racing radiator $110
2x 12" SPAL fans $120
Gates Racing hose kit $50
FIC 750cc injectors $284.99
STM fuel tank to rail kit $219 Don't need just run the stock filter and what you have below, the stock fuel feed is 3/8" which is basically 6an, I flowed 49lbs a minute on the stock filter that was replaced and the whole feed line with no issues. 49lbs a minute is about the max the 68hta will flow
SS Fuel feed line kit $60
Walbro 255lph fuel pump kit $100
Prothane Motor Mounts $70

Suspension:
OBX Rear Camber Kit $125 STM has one for $25 which should have enough adjustability to fix what you need. I am running the HP kit "non adj shocks" and only needed 2 washers to fix the issue, make sure you get it four wheel aligned.
Tokico Illumina suspension kit $544
Megan Racing Front & Rear strut bars $100

Transmission:
ACT 2600 clutch kit w/ OEM tob (steet disk) $470
Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel $215.99

Internals:
ACL Race Series Main Bearings $60 (I have a 7bolt with 170k miles, so this is a precaution)
ACL Race Series Rod Bearings $40
MAP high performance head studs $95
SCE ICS Copper headgasket $137 Run an OEM Mitsu 5 Layer they are better.
FP2 cams $400
EVO 8 Springs / Retainers $152
Eagle Rods $310
JE Pistons Pro Series FSR $550
Balance Shaft Eliminator Kit $25 (removal by PINA $300) Check oil pump for wear while in here.

Engine Management:
ECMlink V3-lite $520 (socket, eprom service incl.)
Acer Aspire 2G $300 (win7, 2gRAM, 250gHDD)

Gauges & Misc.:
AEM Boost Display Gauge $145
Innovate LC1 LC-1 Wideband + DB Gauge Kit O2 $168 if you want your gauges to match you can get the AEM wideband for a little bit more.
HKS Type-1 turbo timer w/ harness $170 I would pick up a used Apexi timer as they are small and just get a new harness if it doesn't have on. The TT is usually $50 used and the harness is about $8 new.

Belts:
Gates Racing Timing Belt
Gates Racing Alternator Belt
Gates Racing P/S Belt

Sites I use:
extremepsi.com
andysautosport.com
cimotorsports.net
maperformance.com/dsm
forcedperformance.net
pinamotorsports.com
punishment-racing.com

I did splurge a little on some parts (such as the AEM boost gauge and turbo timer, the quality of the laptop) but that's just a matter of personal preference. A Dell Latitude D400 will work just fine, you can pick on up for about $100. Turbo timers just keep your car running for a minute to allow the turbo to cool off with the oil running through it. The boost gauge is purely preference, and I chose it for laser accuracy.

To answer some of my own questions earlier, compression is tricky for a turbo setup. Hondas run 10:x compression and up, and turbo them, but the longevity is unknown. I knew a guy whose Honda did 6s, but he went through 3 engines in one year. Our stock compression rate is somewhere like 8.5:1. Lower compression is generally accepted as better, but don't go too low. The pistons I went with are 9.0, and that's fine for me.

Just shop around for the best parts, consider your goal/application, and buy accordingly. Read up on all the information you need, ask for help before you buy, talk with the person you're buying from. Customer support goes a long way towards making your setup a headache or an enjoyable experience.

I never got my answer on the camber kits, but I'm sure some searching will provide answers for any of those who are interested. I'm getting one to be safe, as I know raising/lowering a car beyond factory specifications can be harmful to the structure.

Unless anyone else has something to add to this thread, my issue is RESOLVED. Just search, read, look for deals, ask questions, and if you don't know what you're doing, get a buddy who does or be prepared to pay someone so you don't #### everything up.

-Josh

There you go more info provided.

About my Exhaust manifold, its made here in the USA by hand by Punishment Racing. If it cracks which its highly unlikely I am cover under a lifetime warranty. Punishment Racing your parts source for the Mitsubishi Evo & Eclipse, Eagle Talon and Laser

The OEM ignition is good for around 550 to 600 hp. I decided mainly for looks that I wanted a Coil on plug setup to eliminate sparkplug wires. It consists of 2.8L Dodge Intrepid Coils. The Dynatech box was needed because coil on plug setups start breaking up round 17psi which mine were. I had already spent $200 on the COP so I had to get an ignition box to provide more power to the coils to eliminate the breaking up. http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=21507&cat=1558&page=1

Lol you can see that it starts adding up. I have around $750 in AEM Gauges and the 99 cluster, $570 in the Ignition and those are just small parts that I wanted for looks.



My gauge setup, OEM 99 gauges rare. AEM Wideband, AEM 50psi Boost Gauge, AEM 150psi Oil pressure gauge. I have a silver Apexi Turbo timer mounted below the OEM cluster on the black bezel.

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Got the coolant overflow installed and out of view couldn't find my ss bolts but found them after I put it on so I am going to take it off the put the ss bolts on it .

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[abaddon_baliel]

Very nice! I'm glad you ended up responding. The engine bay looks really sharp. It's almost tax time & I'll get my military bonus relatively soon, about the same time as taxes, so I'll have about $20k to spend, maybe a little over that. I can't wait to get my parts and start doin' work. Then I can move on to my next project, a 95 Mustang GT 5.0. Then I'll have a tuner and a muscle car, and they're going to be exact opposites on everything. Eclipse = forced induction, 2.0L 4cyl., 5spd. manual, FWD, import, white on white color scheme. Mustang = all motor, 5.0L v8, automatic w/ shift kit, RWD, domestic, black on black color scheme. I think it's gonna be pretty sick, I can just hop in whichever car depending on my mood.

Thanks for the heads up on the BCs, I'll keep an eye out for them. And the mitsu head.. I looked for it, but thought the 4-layer was the strong one and the one I listed was stronger than that one. But I'll look for the 5 layer.

Also, those aem gauges look pretty sweet. Nice theme goin on there. And the catchcan is a nice addition, but I still really love that exhaust manifold. I'd always been a fan of tubular, and that one just looks beefy.

Well I've updated the list and searched around for some more info on parts. Thanks a lot for the help. I'll post pics as soon as everything is complete. I may start a blog for the build, though. And I'll def. review every part before and after break-in.

 

[1997_GSX]

Very nice! I'm glad you ended up responding. The engine bay looks really sharp. It's almost tax time & I'll get my military bonus relatively soon, about the same time as taxes, so I'll have about $20k to spend, maybe a little over that. I can't wait to get my parts and start doin' work. Then I can move on to my next project, a 95 Mustang GT 5.0. Then I'll have a tuner and a muscle car, and they're going to be exact opposites on everything. Eclipse = forced induction, 2.0L 4cyl., 5spd. manual, FWD, import, white on white color scheme. Mustang = all motor, 5.0L v8, automatic w/ shift kit, RWD, domestic, black on black color scheme. I think it's gonna be pretty sick, I can just hop in whichever car depending on my mood.

Thanks for the heads up on the BCs, I'll keep an eye out for them. And the mitsu head.. I looked for it, but thought the 4-layer was the strong one and the one I listed was stronger than that one. But I'll look for the 5 layer.

Also, those aem gauges look pretty sweet. Nice theme goin on there. And the catchcan is a nice addition, but I still really love that exhaust manifold. I'd always been a fan of tubular, and that one just looks beefy.

Well I've updated the list and searched around for some more info on parts. Thanks a lot for the help. I'll post pics as soon as everything is complete. I may start a blog for the build, though. And I'll def. review every part before and after break-in.

Sounds good just keep us posted and pm me if you need any help down the road.