1G Major coolant leak from timing side of engine.

[AlaskanDsm]

**re-opened thread**

See post #22 for update.

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Okay, So I will give a quick run down, then my thoughts, and looking for anything that I have missed with suggestions or confirmations.

I got to work the other day and I noticed that may car was leaking like crazy from the driver side of my car. I tried to identify the cause of the leak but I knew right away that there was only 2 things that could leak from the area I was looking at. Basically the coolant was running all down the pulleys and all over the belts.

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With this knowledge and additional diag of the car without dissassembly, I have narrowed the issue down to the water pump itself. I do not believe that the leak is being caused by the water pipe o-ring due to the fact that the water is running from(what looks like) behind the water pump pulley and not down the pipe itself being as that area faces slightly down towards the front of the car.

Now the other things I have observed safely while car is at idle and verifying the level of the coolant, would be that inspection of the timing belt is DRY! And all the coolant is running down on the outside of the timing cover.

With that being said I feel that I could safely rule out a headgasket or water pump gasket leak. By eliminating those 2, the only 3 other options that I can consider is:

- crack in the water pump
- problem with the seep hole (if it has one?)
- leak from the pulley shaft seal to impeller.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

Currently in the process of getting the timing cover off to get a better view of the problem but before I get to it, I just thought I would ask. I am also not unwilling to consider the water pump gasket, just seems unlikely.

Thanks!

**UPDATE**

Well I ripped apart the rest of timing side to get to the water pump and once I got the ALT belt and water pulley back on after getting the timing cover out, I added water to the system, and before I could start it this time, it was running onto the ground!! Got under there and started looking around... the damn seep hole was the cuplrit... Plugged it with my finger and water stopped running... So it looks like I am getting a new water pump.. as well as replacing my timing cover... It has a lot of belt rash on it. Thanks for the help guys!

 

[MY1GDSM]

Its probably on its way out once the bearings start to go they leak from a small hole on the side of the pump or threw the bearings themselves

Time to pull the T-belt.....

 

[goodbuds]

don't go chasing waterfalls son, time to swap that bad boy out.

 

[Boostinsideways]

Things that tend to leak on that area :

Seep Hole - Indicator of failing water pump.
Water Pump gasket - Might as well replace the pump @ ~ 25$ for for a GMB or 32$ for a gates.
Water Pipe O-ring - You can replace this without pulling the entire pump which requires pulling the timing belt. But its a pita.

 

[AlaskanDsm]

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

My car has a rebuilt engine in the car that has just under 30K. At that time we replaced the pump with an OEM pump so it is also at approx 30K... So it is just odd that it would die so quickly. Also, I would think that it is still premature on the timing belt. I also just don't have the extra casht o do everything that needs to be done right now. For example, that engine mount on the driver side is shot as well. I need a new timing cover as mine is cracked and worn out, ie busted bolt hole areas etc.

My other question is, is the Gates pump worth the cheaper value.. or stick to OEM?

On another note, I just recently, within the past 6 months, replaced the water pump o-ring.. so there should be no leaks as well as it looks dry while the car is idling.

 

[slayer450]

Could be a freeze plug. There are two of them in that area.

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[MY1GDSM]

I recently seen a brand new Gates pump pop a freaze plug within 100miles... .

Also a freaze plug would be dumping a Whole Lot More coolant then that....

Regardless more then likely the T belt & cover needs pulled an pumps are to cheap to just not replace it.

 

[JusMX141]

There are a bunch of hoses carrying coolant to the filter housing- I'd start there before going any further, especially with the coolant leaking onto the crossmember as far forward as it is in your photo. The water pump is back further- almost directly above the crank.

As others have mentioned, there's a freeze plug in the head right in between the two cam gears. This could have rusted out or blown out as well.

 

[dsmornothing]

I agree! I blew one out on my car when I first got it. The rubber was so soft I could rip it with my fingers with very little effort! I had also put some DEI heat shield over the rubber hoses because I am pretty sure the heat from the turbo/o2 housing is what killed the rubber!

 

[AlaskanDsm]

There are a bunch of hoses carrying coolant to the filter housing- I'd start there before going any further, especially with the coolant leaking onto the crossmember as far forward as it is in your photo. The water pump is back further- almost directly above the crank.

As others have mentioned, there's a freeze plug in the head right in between the two cam gears. This could have rusted out or blown out as well.

The freeze plug is something I had not even considered. As far as it being a hose from the oil cooler housing, this would not be the case as the picture is misleading. the car is sitting on a downward angle as well as I can see the water coming down directly onto the harmonic balancer from the water pump area. I will definitely keep this in mind though just in case it is shooting the water up onto the timing cover when I get the timing cover off the car.

Now as far as a freeze plug goes, I find this also unlikely due to the issue with the water being on the outside of the timing cover. I would think that if the freeze plug went out, it would spray coolant all over the timing belt. Is this not good thinking?


Also what is everyone's thoughts on the gates pumps vs the OEM ones?

I am not afraid to get down and dirty changing and testing, I just won't be able to do so until this coming weekend as I will be working and will have no light to work by once the sun goes down. This is just to be able to take in any other options that I can keep in mind when diagnosing the problem.

Thanks for the additional input!!

 

[DSM1G90]

I have a JMB pump in mine .. well satisfied 25k miles later from the install .. and it didn't cost a week's paycheck either...

 

[AlaskanDsm]

JMB? Just guessing but just a different off brand style of water pump?

 

[-red97rum-]

At first looking at the picture I expected it to be leaking from one of the coolant lines feeding the OFH. Now after your description I agree it's probably a water pump. I had good luck with a bosch replacement pump I bought from rockauto a long time ago.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Whatever you do dont cheap out when I rebuilt my motor I was short on time an picked up a TOPline pump cause there was a wait on everything else an needless to say I was pulling my T belt 45k miles early ....

 

[Boostinsideways]

GMB, and Gates are both great pumps. You can't really go wrong with gates products.

 

[DSM1G90]

(...sorry on that .. meant "GMB", not "JMB" for my pump ....)

 

[1997_GSX]

I like Aisin pumps but you will pay for them.

 

[MikeyTsi]

Brand is probably a bit less important if you consider the water pump to be a part that should be replaced whenever you do the timing belt.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Brand if very important if you take into consideration that the amount of work to replace the pump I. dont know about anyone else but I dont want to be doing something every 15k that only should only have to he done 60k as a precaution ....

I think the Aisin Oem pumps are the only pumps that I think Ive never seen an issue pop up prematurely with(cant really go wrong with OE parts) gates are good just had the one recently with the freaze plug but Another freaze plug got pop'd in an it works fine now....

 

[AlaskanDsm]

Well I really appreciate everone's input. This thread at this point is moot until I rip the rest of the timing side down which may not be until this weekend. At that point I can report my findings and then if there is any additional need for discussion it can be addressed then. So unless someone has something to add for me to look for, thanks for the help!!

 

[AlaskanDsm]

**UPDATE**

Well I ripped apart the rest of timing side to get to the water pump and once I got the ALT belt and water pulley back on after getting the timing cover out, I added water to the system, and before I could start it this time, it was running onto the ground!! Got under there and started looking around... the damn seep hole was the cuplrit... Plugged it with my finger and water stopped running... So it looks like I am getting a new water pump.. as well as replacing my timing cover... It has a lot of belt rash on it. Thanks for the help guys!

 

[AlaskanDsm]

Okay so after the car being down forever and having a problem with the first new water pump getting installed, I finally got the second new water pump installed and now I am having an issue with the timing.

I have the cam's lined up properly but the true issue I am having is that the crankshaft sprocket will not line up with the belt. It either has to be a half tooth above or a half tooth below the timing mark and so I am not sure what I should do... Help would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[zcoh2gdsm]

crank can be rotated up to 6 times till the marks fully line up, i'd keep trying.

 

[JRSTANGE]

be curious to see pictures of the lining of the cams and crank. Even though the cams can look right they then selfs might be a bit off with out a way to lock the cams with the specific tool. Even still the crank may be off and need to be rotated maybe a half a tooth to a tooth for the belt to seat. Then roate it back and take the slack out the belt and double check the cams and crank again as well as the oil pump etc...

edit: how old is the belt? could be streched.

 

[AlaskanDsm]

I have been able to verify that the cam inside marks are at the center of the cam bolts. And the problem is that if I line up the crank pulley first and try to get the cams to line up, I cannot. They do the same thing where the cam marks will not line up and end up being a half a tooth off.

I believe that because the head and the block have both been milled/decked etc, that the marks may be a little bit off. And the belt is not terrible too old. it only has about 36K on it and it doesn't show any signs of wear. I will replace it eventually but of course money is tight so I have to make due with what I have.

crank can be rotated up to 6 times till the marks fully line up, i'd keep trying.

The crank is at the proper location as the timing mark matches TDC verified with a screwdriver down spark plug well 1.