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Let's talk 4G63 Turbo Oil Feed / Supply Locations- ALL TURBO BRANDS

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Here's enough proof for me to never feed a journal-bearing Garrett turbo from the filter housing without a restrictor:

Mitsu oil supply inlet- notice the tiny, pen-point-sized hole in the bottom of the inlet:
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Garrett T3 oil supply inlet- notice the 5/16" hole in the bottom of the inlet:
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Now which do you think is going to dump oil through, possibly overflowing the center cartridge and causing premature journal bearing wear and oil seal damage?

I'm with turboglenn and 92awddsm on this one.
 
I purchased the PTE 4431R (BB) Mitsu flange. When I called precision they said to run the oil line to the oil filter housing with no restrictor. It also came with a diagram with a picture of the OFH and what to tap into. I told him I have no balance shafts and the oil pressure is prob very high. My stock pressure guage is about 3/4 of the way up at high RPM. He said twice do not run the oil line from the head or use a restrictor, it will burn up the turbo. I have hit 18Psi and about 7500RPM and I haven't seen any smoke yet. The car is cutting out pretty bad when I floor it so I only did it a couple times so far. FYI: It has stock exhaust on it trying to get it to pass emissions :(

With some of the posts above about damage to the turbo with high pressure. I think I'm gonna call them again and double check.
 
Typical rule of thumb is journal bearing = Oil Filter Housing, BB = Head.

The head has siginificantly less oil pressure than the filter housing so ball bearing turbos fail pretty quick with that much pressure while Journals simply don't get enough from the Head.

If you run a restrictor on a journal turbo pulling from the oil filter housing it will fail.

Call me a sheep, but I completely agree. With a BB turbo the feed should come from the head in my opinion. When you add too much oil to the center section of a BB turbo, you get rid of the ball bearing effects by flooding it with oil. I have been told many times that they only need a tiny amount of oil and pressure to run properly because all the pressure is on the bearings itself. Too much oil pressure will put too much pressure on the bearings and make it fail prematurely and also push oil past the seals. When I had my E316G, I had it fed from the OFH with no restrictions and it was perfectly fine. Never pushed oil, spool was typical for that turbo.

Same is true with the last statement. Robert at FP says this a lot with their journal bearing turbos. Especially with Subaru's and their oil filter problem. This filter clogs VERY easily and thus pushes little to no oil pressure and oil to the turbo. When running one of their standard bearing turbochargers, they recommend double what the factory turbo was seeing. Now, I am unsure is this is the same with our vehicles because I believe they are fed from the head with all their turbos. But, my point is still valid. Journal bearing turbos require a lot more oil pressure then BB turbos and that has been proven by at least one turbo manufacture.
 
From my experience with my journal bearing pte 5031e oil feed from the oil filter housing lead the turbo to blow oil out the exhaust. But once I changed the oil feed to the head the problem disappeared and the turbo's been running great ever since. (with the BS in place).

And also if I remember right the 2g stock come with a restrictor on the oil line even though its a journal bearing turbo.
 
I know how to solve the Ball Bearing turbo oil supply confusion.


"Hey Shep! Where do you pull the oil for your GT42R?"

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"Got it! Hey thanks for all the help."
 
I think I figured out why it is ok to run the PTE4431R BB from the filter housing. look at the pic of the oil line fitting. It looks pretty restricted. I've never seen a restrictor in person. Does this look like the right size?,
 

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I think I figured out why it is ok to run the PTE4431R BB from the filter housing. look at the pic of the oil line fitting. It looks pretty restricted. I've never seen a restrictor in person. Does this look like the right size?,

That appears to be the correct restrictor (.030").

Keep in mind that a restrictor will only restrict volume....it's up to you to find the oil source with the correct pressure for your application.
 
Well I guess I will just have to see how long this BW lasts. It is being fed from the head.
 
I'm feeding my E316g off the head and it seems to be fine. Granted, I've only got about 1k miles on it so far, but it still feels new.
 
I just need to verify this: MHI turbos are okay to run from the OFH w/o balance shafts?

I remember having my downpipe removed, revving the engine and seeing a huge puff of smoke from the O2 housing, however this was prior to the V.C. breather catch can install.
I'm running a rebuilt 14b w/ about 5k on it, no smoke at idle or WOT(at least in the rearview), little side to side shaft play no in-out, oil in LICP but could have been from the VCB port.
 
I just need to verify this: MHI turbos are okay to run from the OFH w/o balance shafts?

I remember having my downpipe removed, revving the engine and seeing a huge puff of smoke from the O2 housing, however this was prior to the V.C. breather catch can install.
I'm running a rebuilt 14b w/ about 5k on it, no smoke at idle or WOT(at least in the rearview), little side to side shaft play no in-out, oil in LICP but could have been from the VCB port.

If it is an MHI turbo, I would feed it from the head. They seem to live long with no issues feeding from stock location. EX: Pressure at head with bs removed-20-30psi max. Pressure from ofh with bs removed-70-125psi. You do the math.
 
I noticed I never updated my findings on this. Here is what Precision Turbo said about the oil location.




Tanner,

I apologize for the delay in response as Alex is no longer with the
company. The turbocharger needs to be fed from the oil filter housing,
NOT the head. If you have that many miles on the turbo already, it
should be just fine.

tanner.whipple wrote:
> Name: Tanner Whipple
> Email:
> Subject: Tanner Whipple has filled out the Precision Turbo Contact Form
> Message: Hello Alex, I purchased an SCCM4431R from extremePSI for my 97 Eagle Talon and the turbo came with a picture of the oil filter housing and which port to run the oil feel line to. My question is I have removed the balance shafts in the motor and the pressure at the OFH is most likely 90PSI ish. Will it damage the turbo bearings with this high of pressure. There is a threaded fitting thas screws into the top of the turbo then oil line that looks like it is a restrictor. Should I run it to the head Approx 20PSI? There has been a lot of discusion on this topic at DSMtuners.com and it's starting to worry me. It has 3K miles so far fed from the OFH and I don't notice anything wrong. Thanks Tanner Whipple
 
I just use nitrous jets and machine the inlet fitting to accept it. All that is required is to just machine the flare from the -4am fitting and the nitrous jet drops right in and replaces the flare.

Interesting.

I used to use steel JIC fittings (similar to AN) weld the pipe thread end of the fitting up and then use a proper sized drill bit to make the desired restriction hole size.
Drill Size Conversion Table
 
I apologize for the delay in response as Alex is no longer with the
company. The turbocharger needs to be fed from the oil filter housing,
NOT the head.
If you have that many miles on the turbo already, it
should be just fine.
....exactly what my buddy did with his 6031E, and it died a painful, smoky death three times with less than 1200 miles on it each time. I wonder what Precision would have to say about that one.

Never again will I recommend a turbo be fed unrestricted from the filter housing based on what I've seen lately. If Mitsu turbos are fed from the head from the facotry with restrictors built into the turbo's banjo fitting on the oil line, then that's all pressure that is needed for any journal-bearing turbo to properly function....with or without a restrictor.
 
Im running a MHI 14b ported off the oil filter housing with the extreme psi oil feed. So far so good after more then 5000k on it. Now im putting on a MHI Evo 3 ported out. I believe that more oil is better for trust bearing turbos since they need it so the shaft can glide on the journal bearings properly. Plus the oil is pure and clean coming from the oil filter housing. From the head is a dirtier supply line and way lower pressher. I rather have more then too little.
 
I believe that more oil is better for trust bearing turbos since they need it so the shaft can glide on the journal bearings properly. Plus the oil is pure and clean coming from the oil filter housing. From the head is a dirtier supply line and way lower pressher. I rather have more then too little.
It's not like the oil that is fed to the head is scavenged from the pan. It's the same oil that comes from the filter housing- it just gets pumped through the clean oil supply holes in the block before it reaches your turbo. How does that make it dirty?

The cams obviously get enough clean oil supply at the head- they're under alot more load pressure than a turbo's shaft, and they ride directly on the cam journals in the head with no bearing as a buffer. The oil IS the buffer.

By sourcing the oil to the filter housing you're not increasing the volume as much as you're increasing the pressure....which is proven BAD for turbos such as Garretts that have trouble smoking and blowing turbine seals.


Here are some interesting facts / points to consider:

- TD05H Mitsu turbos on factory 1G's are proven more reliable than T25's on factory 2G's. Where do the TD05H's on 1G's get their oil supply?

- The 1G TD05H turbos have a restrictor built into the oil supply hole in the CHRA AND the turbo end of the banjo fitting on the 1G hard metal oil supply line (from the head) also has a restrictor in it. Not only is a TD05H supplied from the head on these cars, but it's also restricted....so why is supplying one of these turbos with more pressure and no restrictor a good choice?

- Shops preach that you absolutely must supply Garrett T3 journal-bearing turbos from the filter housing, and as a result companies had to develop the stagger-gap turbine seals to combat the oil burning. All the while there are guys running T3 turbos from the head with no reliability problems at all.

- Call me crazy, but I swear the oil supply on Evo VIII and IX turbos comes from the head...meaning Mitsu abandoned the idea of supplying the oil from the filter housing for the newest generation of 4G63's.

Personally I don't see why anyone would want to use the oil filter housing as a oil source for their turbo when the head obviously does a fine job.

What you need to do is read and understand the oil pressure requirements for whatever turbo you're running, and base your oil supply source / restriction on what the manufacturer recommends. If the manufacturer states never to exceed 60psi of oil pressure, then don't bother running the oil supply to the filter housing or you will be putting alot of unwanted stress on the journal bearings and seals at the point in which the turbo is operating under the greatest load.
 
Been supplying the T04E 50 trim from the filter so far. Just recently checked the shaft play and it's fine. 2000 miles and no in and out, very slight side to side, and wheel spins very smooth and nice.
 
I just need to verify this: MHI turbos are okay to run from the OFH w/o balance shafts?

I remember having my downpipe removed, revving the engine and seeing a huge puff of smoke from the O2 housing, however this was prior to the V.C. breather catch can install.
I'm running a rebuilt 14b w/ about 5k on it, no smoke at idle or WOT(at least in the rearview), little side to side shaft play no in-out, oil in LICP but could have been from the VCB port.

My B16G had problems down the road with no BS when it was on the OFH.I put on a Garret and it smoked like grandma on a poker night.Put it back on the head,it stopped smoking.
 
From my experience with my journal bearing pte 5031e oil feed from the oil filter housing lead the turbo to blow oil out the exhaust. But once I changed the oil feed to the head the problem disappeared and the turbo's been running great ever since. (with the BS in place).

And also if I remember right the 2g stock come with a restrictor on the oil line even though its a journal bearing turbo.

My BP 57 caused oil to POUR out the exhaust. It was literally SPARYING oil when I gave it throttle. I'd park the car and there would be a puddle of oil in the exhaust. Smoked up a storm too.

Tom
 
When you cause a restriction in any kind of flow, you're causing a pressure drop. What a restrictor in the feed line does is restrict flow, yes, but that necessarily will drop the pressure to the turbo too.
 
I have two DSM's and one has b/s elimination and the other does not, the one without the B/S elimination is completely bone stock motor. I also have aftermarket oil pressure gauges on both of them; off the head on one and the other the oil filter housing. I am getting 9psi at idle from the head and getting 40psi at high rpm. After firing up the motor from a fresh build and B/S elimination I had 80psi at idle and past the gauge at high rpm at the filter housing. This kind of oil pressure will kill you valvetrain from the high pressure and wipe out bearings because of improper lubrication. The OEM oil pressure should be around 20psi at idle so I ported my oil filter housing and cut the spring until I achieved this number from the block. I believe the reason people are have constant failures are because nobody uses aftermarket oil pressure gauges and has no idea how high there oil pressure is after eliminating their balance shafts.


BTW: I feed a SC6152 from the block with a .068 restrictor with absolutely zero problems. This is the motor with the B/S elimination kit installed.
 
I still don't know what caused my BEP/BW turbo to go bad. I was using the OFH w/BS no restrictor. After a few months, oil was gushing out of the down pipe, compressor cover, and turbine cover. Oil was literally pouring out of those parts. I had the turbo rebuilt and now I am running off of the head w/an FP black inline filter. The banjo bolt I bought from Summit seems to have a really small hole, so I'm thinking about drilling it out a bit, to give a bit more flow.
Now I have the BS removed and we'll see how it holds up.
My S20g was holding up great from OFH though, with BS installed.
 
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