Resolved 1G Let's play "what is this tranny sound"

[CrackedDSM]

Sup fellas. Me again back with another problem.


Symptoms: Transmission will not disengage the clutch. If you try to start it in gear, car lurches forwards. When the engine is running, if you press the clutch in and try to put it in gear, it will not budge. Linkage is adjusted properly, trans goes into gear perfect when engine is off. Transmission has like 0 miles on it.

More info: I have not bled the slave yet, but I sat under the car and had my wife push the clutch pedal in, and the clutch fork does move/does push against the clutch plate like it SHOULD work. I'm not sure exactly how far the fork should be pushed by the slave. Is there a hard number/measurement it's suppose to move? Clutch fork is right in the middle of the window, if a little bit towards the passenger side if anything.


QUESTION:

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Is this sound with the engine on related? It's coming from the transmission. IF it is related, what could be making this sound? As far as I know, the transmission has redline shockproof fluid in it. Manual transmissions are brand new to me, so I have absolutely no experience or clue as to what I'm doing here. I'm an auto guy. Lol. So any help is majorly appreciated!

More info: Noise does NOT go away with clutch pedal pressed.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Could be a gear damaged, hard to tell, take off trans and do a visual inpsection of the pressure plate or something loose in the bell housing. First thing i would do is that.

 

[pauleyman]

What the status? Fresh trans? Fresh motor? Fresh clutch? Need to know where to start.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Could be a gear damaged, hard to tell, take off trans and do a visual inpsection of the pressure plate or something loose in the bell housing. First thing i would do is that.

I very sincerely hope not. That would suuuuuck.

What the status? Fresh trans? Fresh motor? Fresh clutch? Need to know where to start.

Fresh transmission with 0 miles, clutch is used. I think it's a "stage 3" Exedy model, according to previous owner that is. Motor is fresh, bearings are freshly broken in and first oil change has been performed. Oil was clear, no chunks or metal in the filter.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Is the fork rattling

 

[CrackedDSM]

Is the fork rattling

I can't move it or jiggle it with my hand.

However the P.O. did include a new pivot ball in his pile of new parts. I've had to legit use everything he had saved up so far, so it makes me wonder.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yeah I can imagine you'll get it sorted out.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Yeah I can imagine you'll get it sorted out.

I'm a dirty filthy liar. I can move the fork by hand, and I took a video of the amount.

Adjust video quality to 1080P if it doesn't automatically. Is this normal amount of play/movement or nah?

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[92AWDHX40]

I don't think so it should be firm not able to move by hand if I. Correct. Sounds like its loose on the pivot ball.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I don't think so it should be firm not able to move by hand if I. Correct. Sounds like its loose on the pivot ball.

Guess I know what I'm doing next weekend I have free.

Sigh. Damn it. Lol. I don't wanna have to drop this trans. Anyone wanna make a trip to Pensacola and help a brotha out? Free food and beer(only for you, I don't drink). Lol.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I can't think of anything really pull it off and see

 

[pauleyman]

That fork doesn't look normal but I don't think that's your problem. Should still be addressed. When you get it down put it in neutral and slide the clutch disc on it and try to move input in neutral. That should get you started. Inspect the clutch also.

 

[CrackedDSM]

That fork doesn't look normal but I don't think that's your problem. Should still be addressed. When you get it down put it in neutral and slide the clutch disc on it and try to move input in neutral. That should get you started. Inspect the clutch also.

For sure. I also got more info from the previous owner. The clutch is an OEM Exedy kit, OEM TOB, ARP flywheel bolts.

So knowing now that it's essentially just a stock clutch kit, trans has to come out anyway. I'm gonna wait awhile, save some money and grab a southbend clutch from @twicks69 (or someone else if he doesn't have the inventory/stock). Upgrade it all while I'm in there.

It's an ACT Streetlite flywheel though, so that's good!

 

[1cleangsx]

Have you bled the system recently? Make sure your master cylinder isn’t leaking from the hardline on the firewall and from behind the boot inside the car along with the slave. I just recently replaced my slave cylinder due to a leaky bleeder valve, I did the TRE bleed procedure x3 , it took a minute to fully get the air completely out, that was with the master adjustment rod all the way out. Once I was certain it was air free I still had to adjust the master rod in, turning clockwise towards the firewall before it would go into gear, from there I took the car out for a full clutch drag/adjustment. Anyways I was just curious how confident you were on your hydraulics and adjustment

 

[CrackedDSM]

Have you bled the system recently? Make sure your master cylinder isn’t leaking from the hardline on the firewall and from behind the boot inside the car along with the slave. I just recently replaced my slave cylinder due to a leaky bleeder valve, I did the TRE bleed procedure x3 , it took a minute to fully get the air completely out, that was with the master adjustment rod all the way out. Once I was certain it was air free I still had to adjust the master rod in, turning clockwise towards the firewall before it would go into gear, from there I took the car out for a full clutch drag/adjustment. Anyways I was just curious how confident you were on your hydraulics and adjustment

Not confident at all. . So it's all stuff I'll add to my list and go over. Not taking anything for granted for sure! I absolutely need to bleed this system, I know that. I haven't touched the pedal or etc.

It would be amazing if it was just a case of bleeding/adjusting. The sound was just startling to me. I thought that sound was loose bolts on the exhaust rattling, but after tightening it all up and hearing it clearer from the trans area, made me start sweating.

 

[DSMPT]

Just for in case, since the fork has some play, isn't the fork contacting with the pressure plate?

 

[1cleangsx]

See after watching the video I could imagine the fork doing that if there’s no pressure in the slave, but I’m no expert, I just know that’s not normal

 

[CrackedDSM]

It was originally tight against the slave, but I pushed the rod back into the slave with (fairly minimal) effort and then started wiggling it.

Also, in case anyone is curious and can't load TRE's website, here's TRE clutch bleeding procedure, word for word. All credit to TRE/Team RIP Engineering.

1. Inspect and fill clutch master cylinder reservoir with appropriate hydraulic oil. You will want to check this during the bleeding process making sure it doesn’t run out or you will get air into the system again. Leave cap off of reservoir.

2. Have your friend camp in the drivers seat to push in and let out the clutch pedal when you tell him to.

3. During this procedure DO NOT allow your friend to “pump” the clutch pedal.

4. You will be opening and closing the bleed screw on the slave cylinder as instructed below. CAUTION: During this procedure protect your eyes from squirting brake fluid by using a small hose and a soda bottle. Brake fluid is nasty stuff so wear gloves.

5. (Helper) Press clutch pedal in fully and hold.

6. (You) Open the bleed screw to allow fluid to escape.

7. (You) Close bleed screw quickly.

8. (Helper) Release pedal completely

9. (You) Top off fluid in reservoir. Leave cap off of reservoir.

10. Repeat steps #6 – #9 no less than 10 times before going to #12 below. NO PUMPING!

11. Now you will want to purge the slave cylinder of any air bubbles that might be trapped inside of it.

12. Grab the clutch fork and push towards the slave cylinder pushing the rod all of the way into the slave cylinder as far as it will go AND HOLD it in.

13. (You) open bleed valve and command helper to push the clutch down slowly purging any air that was trapped in the slave cylinder

14. (Helper) As soon as the pedal hits the floor command your bleeder monkey to close the valve before you let the pedal return from the floor.

15. Repeat steps #6 – #9 one last time and proceed to the clutch reality check.

CLUTCH REALITY CHECK

The easiest way to do the reality check of the clutch is to get all four tires in the air by placing the car on a hoist.

1. Start the engine and put the car into 1st gear.

2. Slowly let the clutch out until the wheels start to turn round and round.

3. Now slowly push the clutch in until the wheel stop turning. Hold the clutch at this position.

4. At this point the clutch pedal should be at least 2-3 inches off the carpet. If not then the clutch needs adjustment and/or the clutch needs to be inspected for issues that are causing it not to release fully.

The reason why the clutch should be this far off the floor at the engagement point is to allow enough room for movement of the clutch disc so it finds a nice center position between the flywheel and pressure plate. While this may be a tedious method to make sure clutch is functioning properly but this is the preferred method and the true reality check for where the clutch releases.

at "bleeder monkey".

 

[pauleyman]

This is not just a bleed issue. It sounds internal to me. Who built it?

 

[CrackedDSM]

This is not just a bleed issue. It sounds internal to me. Who built it?

Builder was a guy named Rick Barker. He was a local and honestly was a great m/t guy. kchaaz on these forums helped build the transmission too, both are really knowledgeable/good with M/T DSMs.


But, I realized something kind of disheartening. This car didn't have axles in it when I got the car delivered to me via tow truck, and I just threw the axles in and kept going with re-assembly and didn't even think about it as I'm not an M/T guy.


Sooooooo I'm not sure the transmission even has fluid in it. If it does, it's a minimal amount. Really hoping I didn't completely screw the pooch here.


Hopefully a positive is that it never went into gear at all. It's only ever been started in neutral.

 

[jdxnc]

I'm almost certain you popped a spring out of your clutch disk. This will prevent the pressure plate from operating correctly and yeah it sound like crap with the spring flopping around between the disk and pressure plate.

 

[pauleyman]

Wait....you never added fluid? Whatever is causing the noise consider it a blessing in disguise that you didn't drive it.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I'm almost certain you popped a spring out of your clutch disk. This will prevent the pressure plate from operating correctly and yeah it sound like crap with the spring flopping around between the disk and pressure plate.

You’re the second person to tell me this so I’m convinced. Not sure how though because the PO drove the car until the engine blew and then only thing changed was rebuilding the trans/reinstalling it.

Wait....you never added fluid? Whatever is causing the noise consider it a blessing in disguise that you didn't drive it.

Yeah. Never just take someone’s word that they did something. 100% taking it as a blessing. Need to check fluid/add it next time before I do anything.

 

[steve]

Never just take someone’s word that they did something.

Words to live by. There are lots of threads on the site that support this.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Words to live by. There are lots of threads on the site that support this.

I really should know better but hey. Sh** happens.