Knock off Greddy Type S bov

[TurboKID69]

Ok i seen this on ebay and i want to know if it performs the same and its worth the money or just spend the extra bucks and get the real type s, and does it have the signature sound..??http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/UNIV...004146958QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

good post above..

food and electronics are good examples.. a lot of small names taking a piece of the pie from the big name brands/companies who monopolize the industry.. not only will it give consumers more choices.. it will force the big names to lower prices to compete..

i dont see a problem with this kind of trend happening in the automotive business.. because the popular companies monopolize a lot of specific products.. take a look at intakes, exhaust, etc.. do intakes really cost $2-300.. and catbacks running $5-600.. yes we can argue quality and R&D.. but China sure makes a good job of knockoffs and what not.. there will be some items that you definitely get what you pay for.. and there are those who just love brand loyalty.. so the smaller no name companies dont care about that.. what they care about are those willing to step out of that for the better price and more options.. we're all consumers.. the more options we have .. the more competitive companies will be to get our business.. and also come out with new/better products to have us swing their way..

keep the knockoffs and copies coming..

 

[suicidal2af]

If everyone keeps buying these China made rip off's of all these products w/in the next few years all these major companies will be suffering, you'll see shops start disappearing and in the long run everyone will be stuck w/ junk China made rip off parts because they chose to save the $$ ans not support the people who have been providing the quality products for years. Personally im sick of seeing people sending items over to China to be directly copied w/ a far lesser quality. We received a news letter from Apex a little while ago about someone that copied their turbo timer to the exact replica w/ their logo and all and they had people sending them back to APex complaing features didn't work. They dug into the item and realized someone had copied it to a far less quality. I've seen first hand local people around here buying some of these products and had drastic failure which ended up costing them more $$ in the long. Seen China knock off headers fall apart and the turbo fall and melt wiring harness, i've seen China knock off turbo compressor housing break in half, seen China knock off TIAL wastegates spike and blow motors up, etc..

So all in all its up to everyone to make the call of wether or not they want to support the larger companies and shops who have built this industry to what it is or if they want to support the China made knock off market and kill the whole indusrty as a whole which i see happening w/in the next few years @ the rate its going.

Maybe, then, the real companies shouldn't charge such outrageous prices for their parts. Take the BOV, for example; that spring and diaphram cost an extra $175? That's a damn fine spring and piece of rubber.

I can understand a higher price justified by R&D; however, I'm pretty sure GReddy more than recovered the amount they spent on R&D at least 12 years ago or so. Now the only difference are the size of the valve and the spring...and it doesn't cost millions, or even thousands, to make something 3mm wider.

Take a look at the B&M short shifter, for example. It's a couple of pieces of metal and one weld. You're telling me that costs over $100 to make? It probably runs them in the range of $12 per unit. Nice markup, B&M.

Now, before you go throwing the cost of equipment, offices, and the like into the mix...the people making the knockoffs, which are identical quality, have the same costs.

How about an exhaust? How much do you *really* think it costs APEXi to make an aluminized steel catback? Given the cost of straight tubing, they probably spend a whopping double digit price including muffler. Let's factor in those whopping R&D costs in measuring and looking at the stock system. Wow, expensive.

On another note, my tsudo catback ran me $200. 3" stainless. It sounds *better* than the apex'i n1, for less...and it routes *over* the suspension, allowing me to actually run pretty much any swaybar...including the ST sways. Can't do that with the apex.

 

[Nayr747]

On another note, my tsudo catback ran me $200.

Does anynoe know if those are coming out for AWD's? All those cheap ss exhausts for FWD but no AWD?

 

[2GeNTSi]

I've only had one experience with knock-offs, and that would be the short shifter. I got the B+M copy off of ebay, looks exactly the same and came with the same parts. I don't have any complaints and I'm sure it performs the same.

 

[doug]

I got the HKS knock-off BOV and it works fine. I don't normally buy knock-offs, but I couldn't justify spending $200 for a real HKS vs. $85 for something that works just as well.

 

[omegis13]

Is the HKS knock off still a dual stage pull type BOV? Or is it just a push type that looks like an HKS unit? Just curious as I have been contemplating getting one...

Greg Heineken

 

[doug]

Yep, dual-stage pull type. If you didn't know any better, you'd think it was the HKS if it weren't for the lack of the HKS logo on the top.

 

[DiamondStarM]

Well someone had to do it, so I spent the 40 bucks and got a Type S knock off. My 1G BOV was leaking now at 20 psi so I'll give this a whirl. I got it and installed it right away and boost leak tested it and the valve did not leak at all, even on the softest setting. It did leak a small amount from the top screw, fixed with teflon tape, and from the base to cover area, fixed with RTV gasket sealant. Only problem now was that even on the softest setting it fluttered or surged, I cant tell the difference but Id rather it just have one strong woosh and know its good so I took it apart and documented it for you guys. I know the real greddy comes with two spring, but probably not like this one did, with one inside the other. I am taking out the softer spring in hopes of getting rid of the flutter while still remaining leak free at 20 psi. I am going to reseal it up with the hard spring only, leak test it, drive it and adjust the top screw and get back to you guys with the new verdict. If it hasnt taken a crap in a few months Ill open it back up for another inspection with pictures.

 

[Street Surgeon]

I bought the real Type-S oh so long ago, had it for years with no problems whatsoever. Sure it was 180 or so at the time, but it's a tried and true Greddy product that has performed as advertised from day one. Some things I could see people skimping on (honestly, how much better is one piece of 3" stainless piping than another?) so for parts like exhaust or something they really can't screw that up. Well, they could but it'd be tough but for something a bit more complicated like a BOV etc. I'll be happy to pay a bit more.

 

[asexton6969]

I would say the only problems with knockoffs is that its more available to everyone. Meaning that more people are gonna have more modifications to their cars. That can be a bad thing or a good thing. More competition between drivers because each can afford more modifications. Then again there are those who like being the only 1, 2 or small few that have quick to fast cars. Maybe I'm wrong, someone throw their two cents in.

 

[AmpleEclipse]

I would not buy a knock off part. There was recently an article in modified magazine reviewing some of the knock off parts and they are proven to fail. I tried to find the online article but couldn't. When I get back to work I'll try to find the issue number. Here is a link to the Apexi Site about the knock off turbo timer that you SHOULDN'T buy. Hope this helps.
http://www.apexi-usa.com/news_article.asp?id=12
-Matt

 

[TOPSECRET]

I'd say knockoffs are junk. Compare it to everything automotive I work at a gm dealer. The aftermarket stuff is never as good of qaulity I see about 100 parts a day on regular basis most oe and some aftermarketand the aftermarket is always cheaper for a reason it's simply not as good. I've personally bought aftermarket stuff for my mitsu and I've always had trouble with the cheap stuff. I'll say this if you can afford a new turbo because of compressor surge buy the cheap shit it if you can't wait another month eat out less and buy the real stuff. Who said a bov was'nt important come on and neither is the timing belt . Oh and whenever you can buy u.s.a so my dad can work . Most toyotas mitsu's and other ### brands are built in the us.

 

[Nayr747]

The real Type-s does come with one spring inside the other just like the knockoff. A review in a mag is inherently biased. What fills more than half their pages? Ads from those non-knockoff companies who are competing with the knockoffs. I'm sure Injen would write a whole article about how my ebay knockoff intake is inferior and "could cause damage to your car" Or B&M could tell you the knockoff short shifter is not as good as theirs. But the fact is my intake works exactly the same and so does the short shifter. You do not always get what you pay for. All knockoffs aren't crap, but high priced companies sure would like you to believe that so they can have more of your money.

And by the way, many people have had problems with the real Greddys. It's all in how you set it up. And yes that's more than turning the top nut. Does the knockoff have a lower port/nipple? If so DO NOT plug it.

Oh and whenever you can buy u.s.a so my dad can work ..

Stay away from Walmart then.

 

[DiamondStarM]

The real Type-s does come with one spring inside the other just like the knockoff.

Thanks for the insight into the real type-s, that definetly helps with the comparison.

And by the way, many people have had problems with the real Greddys. It's all in how you set it up. And yes that's more than turning the top nut. Does the knockoff have a lower port/nipple? If so DO NOT plug it.

The knock off does have the lower port, I understand you hook it to a boost source to help open the valve faster, but you can leave it open. I take it you have experience with this, please share...

 

[Nayr747]

I take it you have experience with this, please share...

Yeah you're right about the lower port. Very in depth info on BOV operation: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=465301

Thanks for taking the valve apart btw. Someone had to do it. What's your impression of the diaphram and also the bov fit and finish as a whole?

 

[Scrubulum]

In response to the "all china = junk" posts.
I'm 26 and have been working on cars for as long as I can remember. My garage is happily full of all kinds of tools. Most of my "everyday" hand tools are Craftsman or similar (not that those are even made in the USA anymore for the most part). But for all of those tools that I don't use very often I have been happy to buy cheap tools from Harbor Freight or similar. Heck I have at least two die grinders because the were $10 each and they run better than my Dad's expensive one. My dad constantly tells me that I am lucky that I can have all of these tools. When he was my age he couldn't afford all of the special tools that I have because you could only get Craftsman or Snap-on. I have the Dewalt 18volt drill and saw kit. Sure it out performs my friends Ryobi set on battery life, torque and ruggedness, but I only have it because I got a good deal on it used. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless they are doing serious work. They only people that need to spend the big money on the name brand tools are people whose livelyhood rely on them. Most of my "cheap" hand tools (Ac delco, gear wrench, etc.) have the same lifetime guarantee on them (granted it is only as good as the company is in business, like any guarantee). All I'm saying is that getting what you pay for isn't always a bad thing. When I get a new turbo I will get a brand name one because my engines livelihood relies on it. But my non critical parts will probably be cheap.
Two case studies are interesting. Emachine Computers used to be the worse ones in the world. Last I heard they were ranked number one for initial quality and customer satisfaction (I've owned two and loved them). Hyundai used to be the Emachine of cars. Look where they are today. The new Elantra ('06) is going to give a swift kick in the pants to even the Japanese companies. I would say you might get more than you pay for in both cases. Just my two cents.
I've been thinking about this ebay BOV for a while too since I "accidentally" bought an UICP with a Greddy flange.

 

[oldman]

This thread has stayed on topic and civil for the MOST part, let's keep it that way so we don't have to delete/edit posts or lock the thread, let's not let this one turn into another EVO3 vs. GT thread. Post only if you have factual information or real life experience with either the original type s or the knock off, keep political views and economic theories out of the discussion.

 

[DSM90AWD]

I dont' think anyone is saying products manufacturered in China are all junk (better not be as 90% of the stuff I owns is "Made in China"), just that items such as this BOV that are direct copies of existing products without any R&D, made of questionable components/quality, with no exprss warranty or means to repair must be viewed for what they are and not just a less expensive alternative.

Buy one and post a review. If it works you're a hero, if not.. well.. we told you so

 

[Nayr747]

Direct copies don't need R&D. R&D is a very small part of companies costs anyway. Warranties are pretty meaningless too. Prostreetonline seems to think these knockoffs are good enough: http://www.prostreetonline.com/buy/pro_street_brand_x_blow_off_valve/

 

[DSMJim]

Direct copies don't need R&D. R&D is a very small part of companies costs anyway. Warranties are pretty meaningless too. Prostreetonline seems to think these knockoffs are good enough: http://www.prostreetonline.com/buy/pro_street_brand_x_blow_off_valve/

While it is true knock offs don't need R&D because they just reverse engineer the item, generally it's inferior materials and being made in Taiwan much like the Fake Greddy Blow off valves and Tial wastegates that SSAutochrome sells.

R&D is a major cost of items like these and it takes the sale of a lot of units to make that back, not sure where you get that info from. I work with a company doing R&D on new items and we spend a load if money. Making one cast for a piece cost over $5000 u.s. and the item had 3 different casts etc.. So it's not cheap. But after the cast you pop em out for 0.15 each.

I have not seen the pro street vavle so I can not comment on that. Things from Taiwan can cost very little (generally) or a lot as they can build thinks with as much or little quality as you want, just depends on what you wanna spend.

 

[Fayt]

Whats funny, is companies justify their price by calling it R&D. I work for an aftermarket truck company, and I can see the cost on EVERYTHING we sell. All name brand stuff (at least in the truck market). Springs that run $189.95 retail, jobber for less than 1/2, and cost our company less than that. Exhaust systems are a joke, retail is around $569.95, jobber is $300 less approx, and our company cost is even less then that.

Honestly, I buy into the knock-off brands. XSPower on eBay is selling a FMIC w/short route piping and GReddy flange for around $400 shipped. I've read the reviews, and others use this same IC. IC's are a simple design, I can see why they can sell it that cheap. IC's themselves are about $250 on ebay and the piping is $100, why are the complete systems now $800-$1000 when the kit costs $350? I think they are just offering quality parts for less of a profit margin, nothing wrong with that.

Case in point, Modified Mag talked about a single turbo top-mount header for a RB26DETT. Retail is $2000 for an original, they run $100 on ebay; and they even said, and I quote, "We found this RB26DETT single turbo top-mount header on eBay for only $99.00 versus $2000 for the original! The 321 stainless steel piece features a T4 flange and is ported to a smooth surface inside the runners. We can't argue that the piece is well constructed however, how many Skyline owners will actually trust this header?"

I understand the industry has to make money on parts, but maybe they should make the mark up not as much. I know personally how hard it is to save the money to upgrade a car. You want a new exhaust system, your looking at around $800 for a 3" TB system. Thats a big ass chunk of change for new parts. Just because you are a tuner, are you forced to buy used parts? Sorry if it just doesnt feel the same as when you buy NEW parts. Just my thoughts on this.

ADDED: Now that I think of it, if you give me 5 minutes, I'll give you a list of the cost prices of some items that I can order through here, and you can compare them to normal retail and see the markup. As long as the vendors dont care if I show the markup...

 

[Nayr747]

Being made in Taiwan doesn't make the part crap. If you know airsoft guns there is a top company (in japan) that makes a Glock handgun. Then there is KJW, a Tiawanese company that makes the exact same gun (yes exactly the same in every way, not just made of inferior materials, I own it so I know), but improved some aspects like making more of the pieces of metal instead of polymer/plastic, and putting all the real identical Glock symbols on it, and putting a hidden auxilary safety in the serial plate. Oh and they sell it for less too. And somhow... still make a profit. Btw, that same theory of 'it's made in a country that uses cheap labor / materials so it must be crap' applies to basically everything everyone in this country owns. It's all made in China.

From the information I've seen R&D is not a major cost for most large companies; it is a one of the smallest costs to a company. The companies just tell you that to make you feel bad for buying competitors products. Most of the money a company spends is on advertising.

If companies want to start being honest how bout giving the profit margin of every product. I don't see any of them giving up this info and for good reason. If they weren't making a sh*tload of money on them then they should have no plroblem giving us the info. But no one would want to buy it anymore when they see what the company could be charging them and still making a good profit. Let's say CDs. I'd guess the profit margin on these is probably 10,000% or so. That could come down a bit I'd say. WTF

I'm sorry but I have no love for companies and no one else should either. They would kill you to make a dollar; Ford in the 70s with the Pinto, Vioxx and many other drugs today, cigarette companies for decades, the list goes on and on and on. This is what a coorporation is--profit and loss. You do not factor into that.

I've said this before but: store brands, generic drugs, downloading music--all the exact same as buying knockoffs. When a company charges too much peoole will find another way.

 

[Fayt]

Alright, I don't have many prices seeing as how I work at a truck place, but it is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) aftermarket truck stores. Heres just an idea of some stuff I can order.

Baer track kit, the GT Extreme one, big 14" rotors and 6 piston calipers - $1200 cost ($2500-$3000 retail)
Tokico Illumina adjustable 5 way shocks - $72/front $72/rear ($300 front/rear usually, thats 2x the cost!)
Bad example, kinda rice, but 7 color LED underbodys - $52/kit ($200 retail)
Pilot replacement fog light, assembly and all - $45/pair ($109.95 retail)
PIAA bulbs - $27/pair 9005 or 9006 ($90/pair retail!!)
APC seats - $122/pair w/sliders ($300/pair retail)

Thats all for parts made EXACTLY for my car. As far as the parts, exhaust systems are usually 2-3x cost, accessories are about 3-4x cost. Shit, they have a lincoln navigator kit (changes f150 to a lincoln navigator front end), retail is $4000, cost is $1200. The superchargers they offer are $2500 retail and are about $900 cost.

IMO, I am waiting for a company to offer parts cheaper. I'm not against making a profit, but 200-300% per part? Please. I'm glad my friends and I are working on getting a small shop w/a lift to do installs. Were planning on selling parts for only about 20% above cost. Just gotta work out some lil things with getting a business license and zoning for the garage.



Just for the record, I bought a knockoff MBC for $5 on ebay, works perfectly fine. My short shifter? $15 on ebay, perfectly fine. Its a piece of metal, how "engineered" can it be? My friend has a real B+M and I showed him mine, couldnt tell a difference, except mines a lil shinnier. O yea, my headlights? Knockoff ones that I got for $100 shipped. Black halo projectors that dont leak at all. Sure the instructions were in japanese, but they fit perfectly, were crystal clear, halos were bright, and dont leak at all. I'm going to get my FMIC off ebay for $400 from XSPower. Same with the piping, HKS SSQV, and turbo. Exhaust? Its $200 for a knockoff brand or $570 for namebrand. ITS PIPING, HOW MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE IS THERE? A 3" stainless pipe is a 3" stainless pipe, regardless who makes it.

I just keep adding this as I read more about it. Look at these sites offering wholesale. On prime example, who will remain nameless, is offering 30% off all their items to wholesale it. $800 IC kit will cost $560 to wholesale, and they STILL make money off that because they are the middleman. Think of their cost if they can offer to sell ANYTHING they have for 30% off!

 

[fwdeclipse]

I got the HKS knock-off BOV and it works fine. I don't normally buy knock-offs, but I couldn't justify spending $200 for a real HKS vs. $85 for something that works just as well.

I agree with him.I never bought anything knock off either. Then i bought the fake greddy type s and it works fine. No need to spend 200$ when not needed.

 

[MrBoxx]

Took the BOV apart to find that the rubber seal was all cracked inside.

The issue here is, according to Greddy, the knock-offs use a simple rubber diaphragmt that isn't oil resistant. Sure, it'll work great for a few months, maybe even a year or two. But over time, as all that junk that gets sent back into our intake tracts builds up on it, it'll wear down and fail. The Greddy BOV uses oil resistant diaphragms that help it last longer. This is why so many people have posted that their real Greddy's have served them faithfully for years while many people have been posting that their knock-offs have failed in some way.