Just did compression test pissssed!!!!!

[2GFWDbeast]

Had a shop do my engine build for me. They told me not to do any hard driving for at least 500 miles. So far i only have 199 miles on it, and its been about a month. I decided to do a compression test and it was 160 128 130 160 cause i noticed my vacuum at idle was little on the low side.

I have Je pistons 9.5:1. My vacuum is at 8 in/hg at idle. I do have hks 272 cams. Could it be that piston 2 and 3 haven't seated yet or do i need to goto the shop and bi*** at them, cause they messed something up.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

yes its a good idea after 100 and im assuming you are running arps?

yes I'm, and tomorrow i will check to see if there loose. I'm hopping if they are loose that i didn't do any damage to the MLS gasket, or to the head. I haven't rumped on it or anything.

 

[RadDsm]

Re-torque them and do another compression test, hopefully this will help.

Now would be a good time to change that oil, if you are pushing coolant.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

i will give an update tomorrow

 

[RadDsm]

Any update?

 

[Misterbeechy]

well today is tomorrow.. anything?

 

[Calan]

yes I'm, and tomorrow i will check to see if there loose. I'm hopping if they are loose that i didn't do any damage to the MLS gasket, or to the head. I haven't rumped on it or anything.

They aren't going to be "loose"; if they were, you'd have coolant and oil mixing, leaking, warped head, etc. What happens is that they can expand and shrink slightly with temperature variations, causing intermittent pressure leaks and possible damage to the head gasket. If they are fully torqued, the expansion is kept to a minimum which keeps the head sealed.

My guess is that you partially glazed the cylinders by not breaking in the car properly, and there could also be an issue with the ring tolerances or other work that the machine shop did, as Matt said. As you have done some RPM cycling now, you may be wearing away at least some of the glazing and allowing the rings to partially seat; although you most likely won't get optimum compression at this point.

I also agree on the leak-down test. Low (and matching) compression numbers in the middle two cylinders is a pretty good indication of a small leak between the compression chambers on those cylinders, and the leak-down test will find it.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/336535-do-you-have-blown-head-gasket.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/338152-compression-leak-down-testing.html

Here's some good reading for you. This break-in procedure was developed for bikes, but MANY people (myself included) have been using it for years with excellent results. It is basically as people here have mentioned; the key is in cycling the RPM's and allowing engine breaking to seat the rings. That page will also answer several of the other questions you have posted about break-in.

The amount of boost you run during break-in is mostly irrelevant as far as the block is concerned, as long as it's not excessive (up to 12-15psi should be just fine). Engine breaking and the cylinders seeing vacuum is the important factor; higher boost just makes it a little harder to control the RPM during acceleration and engine breaking. With that said, it doesn't hurt to be a little conservative with boost and keep it below 10psi or so.

BTW - Stop arguing with people about the oil changes. Change the oil at 20 miles, 100 miles, and 500 miles with cheap dino oil, and then switch to a good synthetic like Brad Penn at 1000 miles...and use a good filter like a Wix (NAPA Gold...should be NAPA part# 21381 for about $6). On a related note, there is a lot of info floating around on recent issues discovered with Mobile 1, so beware of that.

 

[LiquidX]

Ah Craig!!!! Glad to see you are still around, haven't seen you posting for a little while. Great information too, you have always been a very helpful individual with correct information

 

[2GFWDbeast]

I'm not arguing with on changing it all the time, is just saying that im all ready passed the 50-100 mark so I'm just gonna have to change it at 500 miles. People kept telling me this, I understood the first 3 times it was mentioned to me.

So what i'm suppose to do, goto the shop that built my motor and be like ya people on the forums are saying my motor is messed up. There responses is going to be "DO THEY WORK AT SHOP".

Or can i make the shop do a leak down test for me?

 

[LiquidX]

No, what you can do IS have the shop do a leak down test because you are concerned about you compression numbers being that different. They shouldn't be more than 5psi apart and having more than that there is an issue regardless if they want to believe it or not.

The oil changes are to keep the bearings in tact and they would have gone out already IMO if there was a real issue right now.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

ok im going out side right now and just check the head studs just for the hell of it. Cause as far as i can remember only thing they told me was to change the oil at 500 miles and to not do wot runs with it.

 

[yepes281]

Dude wtf NO, dont wait until 500 miles to change your oil, change it now. The reason you change your oil is to get all the metal deposits out of your motor. Also dont be afraid to make any WOT pulls, its not going to hurt the motor.

The shop you went to were complete tards, also you spend $5000 on your motor build??? They at least put the motor back in for you correct?

Words from a REAL performance engine machine shop, "we take our motors straight to the dyno after their done"

 

[ulitka]

Did machine shop deck your block? With mls head gasket you want a head and a block decked.

When i had my engine machined at one of the reputable shops, I cought some quality control issues like one of the cylinders had vertical scratches after honing, crank micropolish showed a scratch on one of the mains, they were able to fix their mistakes without compromising clearances. Experienced people do make mistakes too.

After you retorque head nuts, perform a leak down test, and issue still persists, I would have a machine shop inspect the health of the cylinder walls with an inspection camera through a spark plug holes (assuming they have a camera to fit through spark plug holes). If walls look ok, then I would demand a machine shop to replace piston rings, rehone cylinders if enough clearance at their cost. After that do a proper breakin procedure that was already mentioned many times in this thread.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

just checked the head studs i set the torque wrench to 100 and all the bolts were tight. The bolts didn't move at all each time the wrench clicked.

They never took the motor out of the car. They said they were able to change out the pistons with block still in it to say me monye. I was on a pretty strict budget. I believe they used a bottle brush to hone the walls. It even say this in the haynes that you can use a bottle brush with a drill. The head was taking off the get cut again cause it was warped. I did see the whole process being done. I was in and out like every day, and i'm sure they were getting annoyed of me. But hey its my 5 grand, and i want to know whats being done with it. No the block wasn't decked They used a precision straightedge with a feeler gauge. They told me i was lucky. Because the block was 0.0020 with the straightedge.

I have read people taking pistons out with the block still in the car so i didn't didn't think much of it.

Also i thought id post some more pictures these are pictures of the head also can anyone tell me what valve springs theses are they came in the car when i bought it.

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[Calan]

I'm not arguing with on changing it all the time, is just saying that im all ready passed the 50-100 mark so I'm just gonna have to change it at 500 miles.

I would be getting that original oil changed out ASAP if it hasn't been changed since start-up. Why are you so insistent on waiting until 500 miles?

But...it's your motor.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

The oil changes are to keep the bearings in tact and they would have gone out already IMO if there was a real issue right now this was said by LiQUiDx. So which one is it to get metal shavings out or to keep bearings in tact or both. We can all stop talking about oil now its getting old. Im more worried about the compression being 18psi off in cylinder 2-3. I cant goto the shop till monday anyways to get a leak down test. IF you plan on saying something about oil dont say it cause its already been mentioned 30 times in this thread. If you have an opinion on my cylinder 2-3 are low like they are Im then happen to answer or listen to what you have to say.

I would be getting that original oil changed out ASAP if it hasn't been changed since start-up. Why are you so insistent on waiting until 500 miles?

But...it's your motor.

Well one its 21 out side i live in wisconsin there is snow on the ground i dont have a garage i live in apt complex i part on a slopped parking lot and theres a snow storm warning for tomorrow does that answer your question.

 

[Valerie]

Ok so if thats what happens, then what about all the brand new cars out there. I bought a 2006 cobalt ss 5 years ago, with 8 miles on. I didn't change the oil til the cars oil sensor told me to, and that was 7500 miles. I highly doubt that the car manufacturers bent test's hundreds of thousand motors in a room for 20 miles, and then change the oil.

I agree with this, do they really take a car and change the oil that much in the beginning?

 

[LiquidX]

Regardless, you should still change the oil. There is still metal floating around and you want to make sure that it is completly out of the system for sure. In an extreme case after this time period the bearings would have taken a hit and now the reason to change is to lessen that potential chance or it occuring.

Moral of that post is "Change your oil if you know there is something in it"

Now onto the next part I read. Was the block and head resurfaced on a mill, not belt sanding, since you are using a MLS gasket?

 

[3kgt2nv]

I agree with this, do they really take a car and change the oil that much in the beginning?

the last 2 new cars i bought had the first oil change at 1000 miles. they also inspect alot of stuff at the same time to make sure nothing was wrong. And this is on my kia's that ive bot. Anything american is usually 3,000 miles. I think alot of it is the tolerances of manufacturing for different car companies

 

[2GFWDbeast]

Regardless, you should still change the oil. There is still metal floating around and you want to make sure that it is completly out of the system for sure. In an extreme case after this time period the bearings would have taken a hit and now the reason to change is to lessen that potential chance or it occuring.

Moral of that post is "Change your oil if you know there is something in it"

Now onto the next part I read. Was the block and head resurfaced on a mill, not belt sanding, since you are using a MLS gasket?

The head was milled but the block wasn't decked They used a precision straightedge with a feeler gauge. They told me i was lucky. Because the block was 0.0020 with the straightedge.

 

[ulitka]

That is some cold weather. I would not want to change the oil myself under those weather conditions, however, I would take my car to a shop and have them replace engine filter/oil, should not cost more than $20. Do you have an oil pressure gauge and what does it read when cold/hot? Chances are your oil filter is partially clogged up and cold weather start ups do not help the oil flow through a dirty oil filter. This is just my logical opinion.

Makes me wonder if a machine shop overtorqued the head nuts or torqued them out of sequence w/o stepping, ask them what they torqued them too and in what sequence. I heard some people torquing head nuts to 100ft/lb and never had issues, however, ARP does not recommend torquing them over 90ft/lb. I read many posts where people complained about leaking MLS head gasket and most of them did not have the block decked. If it happens to be a leaking head gasket, i would have it replaced with oem composite or have the block decked and reinstalled with MLS.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

That is some cold weather. I would not want to change the oil myself under those weather conditions, however, I would take my car to a shop and have them replace engine filter/oil, should not cost more than $20. Do you have an oil pressure gauge and what does it read when cold/hot? Chances are your oil filter is partially clogged up and cold weather start ups do not help the oil flow through a dirty oil filter. This is just my logical opinion.

Makes me wonder if a machine shop overtorqued the head nuts or torqued them out of sequence w/o stepping, ask them what they torqued them too and in what sequence. I heard some people torquing head nuts to 100ft/lb and never had issues, however, ARP does not recommend torquing them over 90ft/lb. I read many posts where people complained about leaking MLS head gasket and most of them did not have the block decked. If it happens to be a leaking head gasket, i would have it replaced with oem composite or have the block decked and reinstalled with MLS.

when its cold it reads 90 to 100psi. when the car warms up to operating temp it reads around 20-30psi

The head studs were torque 30-60-90. I checked the studs with a torque wrench to see if they were they loose in any way, and they weren't.

my block wasn't milled because it was with in spec when they measured it with a filler gauge.

 

[dsm-onster]

OK you've been taught some incorrect information concerning the head bolts. . .

You have to loosen them to retorque them. 1/4 turn will be enough.

Also you need to do the torque sequence so that the final torque amount is drastically different than the others. So for example, you need to do: 20-35-50, then 90

And finally, you must retorque after 5 heat cycles. Not one heat cycle, and not after 100miles.

I would be worried that there's no oil/lube in the threads of the head bolts at this point. . . I, for one, have forgotten to lube the bolts and installed them and had the gasket leak, then went back in with oil and re torqued and it sealed. But I also never put the engine under enough load to move it down the street. Who knows what normal cylinder pressure does to head gaskets with improperly lubed headbolts.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

OK you've been taught some incorrect information concerning the head bolts. . .

You have to loosen them to retorque them. 1/4 turn will be enough.

Also you need to do the torque sequence so that the final torque amount is drastically different than the others. So for example, you need to do: 20-35-50, then 90

And finally, you must retorque after 5 heat cycles. Not one heat cycle, and not after 100miles.

I would be worried that there's no oil/lube in the threads of the head bolts at this point. . . I, for one, have forgotten to lube the bolts and installed them and had the gasket leak, then went back in with oil and re torqued and it sealed. But I also never put the engine under enough load to move it down the street. Who knows what normal cylinder pressure does to head gaskets with improperly lubed headbolts.

I talked to the shop people that did my car and they did everything you said with the re-torquing and such.

 

[3kgt2nv]

I talked to the shop people that did my car and they did everything you said with the re-torquing and such

this is also the same shop that told you a wacky way to break in a motor. I would check them yourself just to have the piece of mind they didnt mess it up or have one work loose on you.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

this is also the same shop that told you a wacky way to break in a motor. I would check them yourself just to have the piece of mind they didnt mess it up or have one work loose on you.

the only thing they told me was not to do wot pulls, till the car get a good tune on it cause i only have a base tune so i can drive it.