Intercooler Sprayer [Merged 12-7] sprayers ic i/c fmic sidemount smic co2 water

[psychlow]

Okay.... sorry in advance for a long post.

I have a flux cored wire-feed welder and a pretty good understanding of how to weld. I also have a drill press, a wide assortment of drill bits, a wannabe dremel tool, and a grinder with grinding and cut-off wheels.

First, let me be clear that I don't care about looks, so if it doesn't fill up enough space to look good, I don't really care. My goal is to go as fast as I can with as little money as possible. I realize these are usually mutually exclusive goals, but I refuse to drop $800-900 on a core when the one I've already got can be made to work better.

SO, here's my idea:

I want to move the stock SMIC up front. The position the SMIC is currently in doesn't allow for a whole lot of air flow in comparison to if it were in front of the radiator. Also, it won't completely cover the radiator's airflow, as opposed to a fullsize FMIC.

I can fabricate all of my own mounts from scrap steel using the drill press (and the welder if necessary). From there, I want to fabricate my own steel intercooler piping from the turbo to the core and the core to the throttle body elbow.

After mounting it, I want to fabricate an intercooler sprayer. After installing my Walbro 255HP, I have the leftover stock pump.

So, here are my actual questions:

1) Other than the pain in the ass of actually doing it, and it looking strange, does anyone see any downsides to moving the stock SMIC up front?

2) Can a fuel pump be used to pump water, or will the internals rust/oxidize?

I was thinking that #1 would be asked and answered by now, but I found nothing about it by searching 12 different ways.

 

[Talek]

I don't know exactly the answer to your questions, but I'd imagine that moving the smic wouldn't give much gain. The stock location actually gets decent flow if the stock foglights and ic duct are removed. You might get a bit cooler temps at highway speeds, but the pipes would be longer, and it would probaby soak faster being in the front. It'd be interesting to see though.

As far as making your own ic sprayer, I haven't heard of anyone using a fuel pump for it so dunno what that'd be like, but some people have re-routed their rear windshield sprayer to the front and used that.

Probably the best way to do it if you feel comfortable fabricating your own stuff would be to either buy a used starion or evo 8 fmic for 100-250 and making your own mounts/pipes, or some people have welded custom end tanks onto two smic cores side by side.

 

[Colossus]

The stock smaller smic won't allow as much cfm airflow for much larger turbos and psi levels. That's why most FMIC's are larger and the "race" version are larger than the "street" versions. To allow for more airflow. It'd be more of a hassle to go ahead and make all the fabrication just to move the smic to the front, and then max it out pretty quickly, when you could just go with a normal fmic. Sure, there's a price difference. I buddy of mine has a custom FMIC made out of 4 Saab SMIC's in a row. It's 38 inches long..it's massive. Cost him like $500 I think. Already plumbed and ready to go also. That's the way to go if you don't care about looks, stick with putting multiple SMIC's together to make a FMIC.

 

[psychlow]

Yeah, I was thinking about picking up a used EVO VII FMIC, but the way the endtanks are positioned, I would have some crazy long intercooler piping. I think it still might be a better setup, though.

I'm not really interested in ever throwing a huge turbo on my car; the Big16G should hold me for quite some time. I MAY sometime in the future put on a 50-trim, but that will be when I'm at a point in my life when I'll be able to afford something more extravagant as far as intercooling goes.

I think I'll just make the sprayer for now and fab up intercooler piping for the stock location, since I'm still on the factory POS rubber pieces.

 

[beefstew4]

Tried to find something, and was unsuccessful, so if anyone has a link feel free.
Is it worth the time to put an intercooler sprayer on the stock smic? I can get all the parts needed, cheap, but does it really help on the Stock intercooler?

 

[1LE]

WRX guy locally is using one on his puny stock IC and it seems to help. I use a fan on my SMIC and it definitely helps at the track. Keeps air flowing while I'm sitting in line, instead of it just sitting there cooking.

 

[Defiant]

DSMers use things that work.

IC sprayers aren't used much.

 

[cuttheduck]

Defintlety not something I would spend much money for.
You can make your own and googleing custom CO2 sprayers usually
finds people who have made their own. I was just working on one using steel
braided line and a nitrous solenoid i had around. There was a guy on ebay selling the
little plastic ring that would go around the stock SMIC and spred the CO2 evenly. Don't
see it anymore though.

I just looked on ebay and found this really cheap one, pretty rough and no electronic solenoid. intercoole CO2 kit

Mine is kinda unfinished but so far it does make quite big difference w/ the stock one in
regards to summertime city driving. Those days where it above 80 and the SMIC is getting heatsoaked from just sitting at the traffic light. You can spray a shot when the mustang next to you wants to go. However, It's applications for the track or someone w/ a frountmount already may be a little pointless due to the lack of heatsoak.
If I ever get my PDA working again i'll see what I get for a log.

 

[1LE]

DSMers use things that work.

IC sprayers aren't used much.

Hehe, when I think of the average DSM owner, that's NOT what comes to mind...

 

[chase78]

YEA i have to say that the sprays are more show then go.... TRY WATER INJECTION.... if you DIY it will cost you about the same price and you can run higher safer boost or change A/f closer to 12:1 .... in the tech articles someone has a great writeup about it.... As soon as i get a weekend and about $160 I going to do it.

 

[1LE]

YEA i have to say that the sprays are more show then go.... TRY WATER INJECTION.... if you DIY it will cost you about the same price and you can run higher safer boost or change A/f closer to 12:1 .... in the tech articles someone has a great writeup about it.... As soon as i get a weekend and about $160 I going to do it.

Aren't there some boost controller setups now that have inputs for water injection "water level"? So if you run low on water they reduce the boost so you don't go boom?

 

[chase78]

TO get into it more you have to go to

From what I was reading from the newbie posts of that forum(www.h20injection.com) that you have to control the ratio(air/spray and water/alcohol), location of sprayer, water atominzation, PSI of pump, and IC piping.......... I was in doubt before i started to read up on it myself. Im not an expert by no means so if you want for info go to the web site above and read around...

Here is the write up

http://dsmtuner.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81892

MORE INFO

www.h20injection.com

 

[beefstew4]

Sorry beefstew4 that i hijacked you post......

no prob, i welcome anykind of feed back, good, bad or just off subject.
Let me tell you what im trying to do, since you all might have a little more experience with this. I hacked my airbox completely so that is open all the way, now im running into problems with the car idling well at stoplights. Im already starting a "air filter isolater" for lack of a better term. Im designing something a little different than what ive seen before, im starting out with two pieces of aluminum with a sheet of shower lining sanwiched in between to insulate it, just something to keep hot air off the filter. Im also developing a type of ram air, or cool air duct coming up from the bottom of the car and up undernieth the air filter. i had one developed, but it hung way too low, and i did not like how it looked, so back to the drawing board. Its gonna take me a while but i think i can get inlet temps to drop quite a bit.
So thats how i got on the intercooler sprayer, i was looking for every possible CHEAP option to cool the incoming air, especially at stoplights. Electric fans on the intercooler was another idea, but i have heard mixed results on this. i can get pretty cheap parts, i have a "u pull it" junkyard near by, and they are pretty reasonable on most stuff. I was looking for a front mount too, cause they have a starion, but someone ganked it b4 me.
So if anyone has any other ideas feel free to give me some feedback, no sore feelings about high jack-in!
Also, i fly for free, so anyone with a free afternoon, who might happen to live by an airport, maybe i can fly there and exchange some buddy passes for tips, or parts or something. I was trying to make it to the meet in Indi, the one at nocturnal motorsports, a couple weeks ago, but had to work.

 

[beefstew4]

DSMers use things that work.

Not to be an ass, but, just wondering, if they dont work then why did they put one on the new evo? Is it cause the fmic is much larger on the evo? It seems that if it did not work they would not have wasted the time to develope one on the new evo.

 

[cuttheduck]

Not to be an ass, but, just wondering, if they dont work then why did they put one on the new evo? Is it cause the fmic is much larger on the evo? It seems that if it did not work they would not have wasted the time to develope one on the new evo.

I think its was more a gimmick since the Sti was going to have one. Water on the intercooler won't do much if Co2 at 80 below zero wont do much.

 

[chase78]

Sounds like you are going for a more effecient design then volume(air flow)..... Hacking out the honey comb will give you the lumpy idel.... must people get around that by SAFC of HKS A/f computer..... it has a nice light ideal control function that will clear you problem right up. you can find then used for about $120-170 on ebay or in the classifieds...

Intercooler would be a great place to look next since it sounds like you have a great intake system. The homemade intercooler in ebay you want to stay away( the fMIC for around $200-400). Greddy and APEX make the leading designs with the numbers to prove it(just hop on thier web sites)..... I say they are the leading because for thier size they give awsome cooling.

I hear good things and bad things about the MAF translator + GM 3" BOX..... it sound to me that people you want lots of volume(drag racing mostly) love this mod it give them a great bang for the buck.

I:m personaly a big buff on ignition...... if you ever at a big chain bookstore like Boarders go to the auto section and get:

"Performance Ignition Systems : Electronic or Breaker-Point Ignition System Tuning for Maximum Performance, Power and Economy (Paperback, 1999) ISBN 1-55788-3068
May 1999"

this book changed my things on car performance.....


ALSO back to the topic..... I`m not saying they(CO2 sprays) dont work. Im saying they dont work that great compaired to a waterinjection system..... I read up on them and man they are KICK ASS

 

[95TalonTuner]

Not to be an ass, but, just wondering, if they dont work then why did they put one on the new evo? Is it cause the fmic is much larger on the evo? It seems that if it did not work they would not have wasted the time to develope one on the new evo.

same reason they put a cool fmic, carbon fiber spoiler, and altezzas on.

 

[beefstew4]

it just seems that it would be a big waste of time for mitsubishi to put the effort into something that didnt work. Yes there are altezzas, but they dont leak like the cheap ones that others sell, shine brighter and they are dot legal, yes there is a huge carbon fiber wing, but it actually does produce a useable amount of down force at speed, and yes they put a HUGE cool fmic on the front of that thing, but i think its safe to say that they have been proven to work well. I just find it hard to believe that they would put it on a car that has somewhat of a cult following all over the world and not have it serve some sort of function. They had to have tested it and found it to be useful, or they would not have put it on there. I cant see them spending that much money (think of cost per every car shipped over here) for something that most people have never heard of. They have a relitively proven testing program not to mention an awsome rally record with the evo. Im really convinced that it works on the evo, and i would spend the time to install such a system, i just dont know if it would be useful enough on such a small intercooler. In my eyes, and i guess i will find out if i build one, a intercooler sprayer on the small stock smic would be an invaluble tool, in traffic if nothing else, i think it might even work better than a fan, i almost want to say that other than in traffic, a fan might impede airflow. This of course if you mounted it on the back, so that it would suck the air back.
i dont know, whos got some more opinions?

 

[dets]

ic sprayers work when you put them in the right application.

On the drag strip, you probably won't see too many gains. On a 12 turn track, or a rally, IC sprayers work great in between pits stops and control check points. Keeping temperatures down is usually one of the hardest things to accomplish on a hot track or rally day. IC sprayers provide a good way of trying to keep the intercooler cold while not having the tools that you would have in an actual pit.

 

[PieTSI]

I don't know how much this helps but you can definately build this for free. When your at the track disconnect one of your windshield pissers and rerout your stock windsheild washer lines to the intercooler. Then disconnect the electrical connector for the windsheild wipers. Then connect the pisser to the fluid line by the intercooler, there was a little hole I could stick mine in so it was perfectly aimed at my Supra sidemount. So all you have to do is push the windsheild pisser lever and only the water will squirt on the intercooler. Takes about 15 minutes to build and after I was done racing I just reconnected everything back. So if its free why not?

 

[sleeper04]

Wht i was thinking about is using a nitrous solenoid but what size should i get or doesnt it matter.... i have the tank and the all lines is that all i need once i get the solenoid??? any kind of help would be nice

 

[DSMJim]

You will need a solenoid and bar for the nitrous to spray out of.

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[sleeper04]

yeah i have all that i just need to know if the size of the solenoid matters or not??? im spraying CO2 out of it

 

[DSMJim]

yeah i have all that i just need to know if the size of the solenoid matters or not??? im spraying CO2 out of it

Bigger will let more though, other then that, nope.

 

[JohnTSI]

Does anyone have any real world input or data on thier IC prayer setups? I know I have seen countless dyno sheets and so on but that really doesn't mean beans to me. WHat I am looking for is more of I took my car to the track and here are the results. Personally I prefer those dyno sheets that are 1320 feet long. A insufficient fan running on a dyno can scew results of how well a IC cooler helps.

Thanks
John