Information on EVO3 GT turbochargers from manufacturer.

[Jon Lane]

! You think the end seller is making $175 profit?? If that were true, the knock-off would have no reason to exist! It's more like $50-75. And $50/unit to import is way high, too. Assuming a distributor imports a pallet of 50 units, it probably costs about $500 to bring in, including any tariffs/fees/whatever. That's about $10/unit.

A 20' box costs in the neighborhood of $4000 to float and land and clear, meaning roughly $20 per unit for a wholesaler to own it on US soil. Then we have US fulfillment to the dealer, probably not less than another $20/unit.

As far as dealer profit, I speculate, but I wouldn't touch an expensive US specialty retail operation with a 10% margin with a ten-foot pole; would you?

 

[cuttheduck]

So far you've compared Chinese counterfeiters to rocket scientists, pulled out the race card, and said vendors make $175 profit on the evo 16g. I wish

Please, lets keep this thread open. If you can prove turbochargers.com is wrong when they say Chinese made turbos are shoddy, then bring the proof. Until then, quit trying to save your outrageous claims and speculation with crap unrelated to the thread at hand. This thread is about a turbo, not international shipping practices.

You said it best

Anyway, first, I won't put words in TC's mouth -- in their view if Chinese turbos are naturally garbage, then they certainly know more than I do.

Seriously, let stop this crap. Read below......

Agreed. At this point, it is either:

Defend your argument with facts, or back off.

I deleted everything that was off topic. Discuss the turbos, not economics. If I have to start deleting stuff again, I will lock this. Consider yourselves warned.

 

[Jon Lane]

Almost anything in the world is now counterfeited and shoddily made in China.

...quit trying to save your outrageous claims and speculation with crap unrelated to the thread at hand. Seriously, let stop this crap.

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot.

 

[oldman]

vendors make $175 profit on the evo 16g. I wish

You wish? Are you a vendor? If so, what is your company name? Do you sell this turbo? Any numbers you would like to share with us that will prove your statement how shitty this turbo is? If not then stay out of this discussion, we have had enough of "China turbo must be shitty" statements. Put up or shut up.

Seriously, let stop this crap. Read below......

Originally Posted by leet
Defend your argument with facts, or back off.

I deleted everything that was off topic. Discuss the turbos, not economics. If I have to start deleting stuff again, I will lock this. Consider yourselves warned.

You're the one who started this crap again. leet did a great job stepping in and stopped the last round of off topic economic discussion, you then came in again with your ignorant, unfounded, stereo typing statements and when someone else responded to them , you accuse them of being off topic? WTF

IMO There are three crucial points here.

1. Why was this turbo marketed as a EVOIII turbo and why wasn't discount being passed on to us? I think Buschur had already answer that and we will have decide whether we believe him and whether Buschur will get our future business.

2. SBR either needs to come back with prove to back up their claim or admit they were unfounded. Again, we as consumers will have to decide whether their practice was ethical and deserving of our future business.

3. Most importantly, real numbers. The best case scenario is for both Buschur and SBR to perform back to back dyno runs and post the results here. At this point, I suspect neither thinks we the consumer are important enough for them to even respond so the best we can hope for is for some GT user to post and share their experiences.

 

[cuttheduck]

You're the one who started this crap again. leet did a great job stepping in and stopped the last round of off topic economic discussion, you then came in again with your ignorant, unfounded, stereo typing statements and when someone else responded to them , you accuse them of being off topic? WTF

You might want to read page 5 before you post. Read my first post soley about the turbos origin, then read the jon lane economic discussions following it. It would help greatly before replying. That is all.

BTW, how is a statement by one of if not the largest turbocharger dealers in the U.S. "unfounded". Are you an expert on Chinese turbos? Its like I wandered into the "Chinese trade and commerce department" website or something. God you guys are scaring me. Read my first post, maybe type in china AND counterfeiting into google while you're at it to see what the world thinks.

 

[oldman]

Are you an expert on Chinese turbos?

Not at all and neither are you. This is why I have held back my comments on the quality of the turbo, I think you should as well.

 

[cuttheduck]

Not at all and neither are you. This is why I have held back my commets on the quality of the turbo, I think you should as well.

This is exactly why I said READ THE 5TH PAGE!!! I talked about where the turbo was made, I let turbochargers.com do the talking about turbo quality for me.......

Again, I say Taiwan , not China . Mainland China indeed has a bad reputation for turbo quality, while Taiwan has a reputation for being the best quality manufacturing in Asia .

Thanks for playing

 

[oldman]

first sentence in your page 5 post.

How do we know these aren't Chinese made crap turbos.

Thanks for playing

 

[99gst_racer]

A larger flapper is a downgrade, not an upgrade. And the thicker blades on the compressor are a downgrade, too. Where have you been?

A larger flapper is known to help fix the common boost creep problem on the E3 16G turbos. I never said it was an upgrade in performance.

So your cousin's, brother's, former roomate's, ex-girlfriends, bodygaurd says those are major downgrades.... Talk is cheap. Prove it on paper.

I dont consider the China GT to be a low quality, poor performer until someone actually proves it to be. Anyone care to step up to the plate?

 

[ShapeGSX]

So your cousin's, brother's, former roomate's, ex-girlfriends, bodygaurd says those are major downgrades....

No, I say those are major performance downgrades. A=pi*r^2 says the flapper is a major downgrade. In fact, that is one of the equations that can tell you that thicker blades are a downgrade, too.

I've had a 16G with a flapper upgrade, and it was a major limiter to my car's performance. That is why I made sure NOT to get one on this 16G. The fact that I can hold 25psi to redline in a car with upgraded cams is a testament to that fact.

So this is coming from my personal experience. It is not a guess. It isn't hearsay.

But people continue to get 34mm flapper upgrades on internally gated 16Gs. And then they wonder why their boost falls in the upper RPMs. In fact, I don't even think that they do all that well when it comes to combating boost creep. Once the exhaust exits the wastegate hole, now it has to get around an even larger flapper valve that you put in its way!

 

[Jon Lane]

I dont consider the China GT to be a low quality, poor performer until someone actually proves it to be. Anyone care to step up to the plate?

Bingo. As in vetting all new products, in a capitalist market that test will occur, something any reasonable person is willing to grant. Then if it's junk, it's junk. In the meantime I see a lengthy warranty and a big DSM reputation behind this thing, and that speaks a lot.

The onus is never on anyone to prove a negative: Obviously you cannot prove that all Chinese (or Taiwanese or Japanese, or...) turbos are not crap, nor should you be required to just because of origin.

The onus is the anti Chinese-manufacture folks to prove that their bias is always automatically valid when huge numbers of successful eastern items -- whether integrated products or component pieces OEM'd to other makers -- prove otherwise every day. It's just a point of logic and reason to argue from the right side of the issue.

And regardless of the diversionary flack in this thread about "economic discussions", that's not what they are; they're about whether or not the MHI EVOIII could in fact be made in China or Taiwan too, either in part or in its entirety. Wouldn't surprise me at all, and I'd even expect that were, given the prices and quantities...

 

[BUCK]

finally - the MOTHER of all TURBO Threads - & I would'nt want the Porting because I would want to be able to still use the Stock "ring" that fits in the recess for better gasket life - call me old school...

 

[97GS-TSpyder]

4 pages and absolutely nothing at all, to back up either turbos as one being better than the other.

This is getting rediculous.

 

[tighty]

1. Why was this turbo marketed as a EVOIII turbo and why wasn't discount being passed on to us? I think Buschur had already answer that and we will have decide whether we believe him and whether Buschur will get our future business.

2. SBR either needs to come back with prove to back up their claim or admit they were unfounded. Again, we as consumers will have to decide whether their practice was ethical and deserving of our future business.

3. Most importantly, real numbers. The best case scenario is for both Buschur and SBR to perform back to back dyno runs and post the results here. At this point, I suspect neither thinks we the consumer are important enough for them to even respond so the best we can hope for is for some GT user to post and share their experiences.

How many times do some of us have to point this out and in how many different ways before these points actually get answered. Lock this shit already....

 

[Thomas91169]

my buddy has one of these Evo3GT turbos, and has had it for a couple months now and i have yet to see any problems. he does just as many runs as me on a "real" evo16g. i think it spools a wee bit faster and the boost comes on a little differently than my evo16g(the boost comes on more smoothly on his gt, rather than all at once on the real). other than that, no difference.

this thread reminds me of the countless others where people take 2 fmic's of equal build quality and design, one has a big name brand spraypainted on it, the other is sold by some guy off ebay. even though theyre both the same, the name brand is always better. i guess its the same reason nike is still in business, cause people will fork out 150 for a shoe i could get at payless for 40 bucks that is just as good and lasts just as long(or longer).

 

[indiglotrd]

my buddy has one of these Evo3GT turbos, and has had it for a couple months now and i have yet to see any problems. he does just as many runs as me on a "real" evo16g. i think it spools a wee bit faster and the boost comes on a little differently than my evo16g(the boost comes on more smoothly on his gt, rather than all at once on the real). other than that, no difference.

Finally someone with useful info.

 

[ryu]

Finally someone with useful info.

you call that useful info? since when is butt dyno used as facts?no offence to you thomas, thanks for trying to put some real input but you and your friend have two diff cars.

 

[leet]

I warned you guys.

Once again, the few ruin it for the many.

Good Job

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

As a follow-up we will lock any threads having do with the EVO3GT unless they contain some "real world" data that can be discussed.