Incredibly loud twin disk noise

[jakelandry]

Hey guys, im normally not one to get on here and ask questions as i'm aware that nearly every topic imaginable has been covered, but im stumped on this one. I recetly installed a used but in good condition qm twin disk and its making some very harsh noises when the clutch pedal is pushed in. Its more than normal chatter for sure and its nearly intolerable. Ill include a video just to show the severity. I pulled the trans back off cause my first assumption was the pp bolts werent clearing the clutch fork but once i got it apart there was no sign of rubbing between the 2 parts. My second thought was the flywheel bolts were too long and the flywheel could be loose. I put a pry bar between the block and flywheel and theres no slack. I used 22.5mm stock 6 bolt flywheel bolts as suggested by twicks (i have a 6 bolt swap) and torqued them to 100 ft/lbs with red locktite. The oem tob was one I used on my previous clutch and has about 10k on it. IT seemed to be in good shape and was perfectly fine with my previous clutch assembly so i assumed it would be fine. Im open to any suggestions whatsoever as im trying to have the car ready for this friday (big car event). Thanks for your help guys.

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[Colt4G63 also]

Mine makes a horrible noise like that too. I imagine it sounds a little worse because it's being recorded and played back, but yeah it's embarrassing and intolerable.

 

[jakelandry]

Mine makes a horrible noise like that too. I imagine it sounds a little worse because it's being recorded and played back, but yeah it's embarrasing and intolerable.

Nice to know im not the only one. I'm used to clutch chatter and similar noises, but I can honestly say that I dont think this is normal. If I were a reputable company who built clutches of this caliber I wouldnt install one, hear this, and say "okay lets sell it". I mean no negative intent toward qm, i'm just saying I dont think this is normal.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Mine is a $1400 CM700, and I feel the same way you do. I called CM and they said the screech during engagement might go away, but the god awful rattle is just the steel plates jangling around, and it's permanent. I've been putting up with it since last August.

 

[jakelandry]

Mine starts right when the clutch gets past engagement point. It also squeals when shifting between gears. I thought about that but the surface disks for fairly snug against the pressure plate guides. I'm stumped.

Just to add in case it helps any, I read that this clutch needed to be adjusted to prevent overextending. In order to get the clutch to engage around 2 inches from the floor I had to adjust the pedal out completely AND shim the slave cylinder which I found to be odd.

 

[twicks69]

What slave cylinder and rod are you using??? It should be an OEM slave, OEM slave rod, OEM pivot ball, OEM TOB, either a clearanced OEM clutch fork or a Competition Clutch forged clutch fork, and OEM clutch master cylinder.

Your clutch engagement/disengagement should be around 2-3" off the floor with a new clutch, and if you are extending past the proper disengagement point, there will be a loud screeching noise as you overextend the clutch cover diaphragm spring.

Did you do any measurements of all the clutch components prior to installation? Is this a gear drive or a standard hub QM twin? How many miles are on the disks? Which disk friction material?

 

[gofer]

Tim brings up some good questions but, for some peace of mind, my ACT twin disk chatters comparable to your video and my setup is within spec of what Tim posted above.

Twin disks are a PITA to drive around on the street but once you go to the track and pre-load launch and shift at 7k+ you'll be nothing but grins.

 

[jakelandry]

Glad to see some knowledge chime in. I did absolutely no measuring whatsoever before installing. I don't have the proper tools do do so. I know that's exactly what you were expecting to hear . I have an all stock master to slave setup except the slave which is just a cheapie from oreillys. None of it leaks any fluids and it all has plenty of travel. That's why I had to shim the slave and back the pedal all the way out cause it was engaging right when my foot hit the pedal. Not claiming none of the hydrolic assembly is to blame, but the sound happens immediately after the point where I can shift, so I don't feel like its an overextension of the pp. although I didn't personally measure the disks the previous owner measured them and I don't recall the measurements but the 2 disks were within qm specs. I believe I have a screenshot on my computer of what he said they were at and I will look and update when I find it. The previous owner put 1000 miles on it with a fair amount of track passes. I put 5 on it. One thing I did do was reverse the pp bolts that you have to grind the clutch fork down to clear. I did them one at a time and I tightened them as accurately as I could to one another. I did quite a bit of research before I chose this clutch and I can tolerate noise but this noise is plain embarrassing. It feels great, the pedal feels good and it grabs solid, the noise/whatever the root of this problem is is all I have to complain about.

Glad to see some knowledge chime in. I did absolutely no measuring whatsoever before installing. I don't have the proper tools do do so. I know that's exactly what you were expecting to hear . I have an all stock master to slave setup except the slave which is just a cheapie from oreillys. None of it leaks any fluids and it all has plenty of travel. That's why I had to shim the slave and back the pedal all the way out cause it was engaging right when my foot hit the pedal. Not claiming none of the hydrolic assembly is to blame, but the sound happens immediately after the point where I can shift, so I don't feel like its an overextension of the pp. although I didn't personally measure the disks the previous owner measured them and I don't recall the measurements but the 2 disks were within qm specs. I believe I have a screenshot on my computer of what he said they were at and I will look and update when I find it. The previous owner put 1000 miles on it with a fair amount of track passes. I put 5 on it. One thing I did do was reverse the pp bolts that you have to grind the clutch fork down to clear. I did them one at a time and I tightened them as accurately as I could to one another. I did quite a bit of research before I chose this clutch and I can tolerate noise but this noise is plain embarrassing. It feels great, the pedal feels good and it grabs solid, the noise/whatever the root of this problem is is all I have to complain about.

The previous owner claimed to buy it in 2012 and it is a standard 7.25 vdrive.

 

[gofer]

Even at the track you'll have people coming by and telling you the TOB sounds terrible or you're getting knock in the bottom end, at least I get that. I just tell them, I know. That way they think my car's falling apart...

I recommend getting a OE slave from the dealership or JNZ Tuning...

 

[jakelandry]

Even at the track you'll have people coming by and telling you the TOB sounds terrible or you're getting knock in the bottom end, at least I get that. I just tell them, I know. That way they think my car's falling apart...

I recommend getting a OE slave from the dealership or JNZ Tuning...

I plan to. I recently got a new job and have been slowly replacing everything. I'm just ready to get the car off jack stands and I'm not gonna let a slave cylinder stop me. And I'm half way expecting to get the same outcomes . It literally sounds that bad.

Also I found the clutch measurements .243 a piece.

 

[StarFawkes]

Oh the woes of being a twin disk user...
I can say this made me pull my trans twice before I decided it was "normal"

 

[jakelandry]

Well I guess if its all normal and noone has anymore suggestions I'm going to put it back in today and deal with it.

 

[twicks69]

Is it knocking noise, or is it simply whirring rattling noise? Knocking noise is over-extended clutch; whirring rattling noise is normal; especially when the clutch cover has grooves in it from the floater and pressure plate cutting into it, or if there are parts out of tolerance or past their wear limits it normally becomes louder. The chirpy noise is common with clutch disks that are not broken in fully yet.

Things that can help - heavier chromoly steel flywheel (like the street flywheels I normally put with the Gear Drive disk assemblies); gear drive disk pack (prevents the disks from wobbling as much as a standard hub disk and reduces wear patterns on the input shaft splines while nearly doubling the surface area of engagement on the input shaft splines); Fluidampr harmonic crank damper (reduces 4th order harmonics, decel harmonics and significantly quiets up the clutch setup.

Other things; don't ride the clutch sitting at a stop; simply push in when you need to go and stay in neutral with the clutch engaged until you need to disengage and shift into gear. If you are noticing decel noise from 5000-2000rpm, then shift to neutral or shift to a higher gear or on downhill or low mph flat coasting, trail-brake with a bit of load on the throttle to keep the clutch/trans from unloading.

 

[jakelandry]

Is it knocking noise, or is it simply whirring rattling noise? Knocking noise is over-extended clutch; whirring rattling noise is normal; especially when the clutch cover has grooves in it from the floater and pressure plate cutting into it, or if there are parts out of tolerance or past their wear limits it normally becomes louder. The chirpy noise is common with clutch disks that are not broken in fully yet.

Things that can help - heavier chromoly steel flywheel (like the street flywheels I normally put with the Gear Drive disk assemblies); gear drive disk pack (prevents the disks from wobbling as much as a standard hub disk and reduces wear patterns on the input shaft splines while nearly doubling the surface area of engagement on the input shaft splines); Fluidampr harmonic crank damper (reduces 4th order harmonics, decel harmonics and significantly quiets up the clutch setup.

Other things; don't ride the clutch sitting at a stop; simply push in when you need to go and stay in neutral with the clutch engaged until you need to disengage and shift into gear. If you are noticing decel noise from 5000-2000rpm, then shift to neutral or shift to a higher gear or on downhill or low mph flat coasting, trail-brake with a bit of load on the throttle to keep the clutch/trans from unloading.

Thanks twix, from my VISUAL inspection there were no grooves or slack in the pressure plate and floater. It is more a of a whirling sound but it just sounds like metal on metal or a loose flywheel. I'm used to clutch chatterand this isnt normal chatter, but this is my first twin disk. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[gorf]

I removed my QM and sold it here because of the noise. Worked great but took some getting used to - I just could not stand the noise. I always thought my engine was about to fall out - down shifting was the worst!

 

[TSiAWD666]

Since there's a lot of noise commentary here... I figured I'd chime in so folks have more info if they're interested in that subject: the noise in the gear-driven QM clutch Twicks69 (aka TMZ Performance) built for me last year is really minimal. Sure I can notice it when the clutch is disengaged but it's very mild. Maybe mine is a fluke, or maybe newer models like mine are quieter, I don't know. I can tell you when I first disengaged the clutch with the engine on I thought it wasn't disengaging properly because I didn't hear the raucous noise I thought I was supposed to have. I had to strain to listen for it. It was a fairly light rattle. Of course my car is pretty loud being a track car and all but still, I expected a lot more noise from all the complaints I'd read about online. Even listening to it in front of the car with the hood open while someone else disengages the clutch it's not anything bothersome.

Definitely nothing to even make anyone consider pulling it just because of the noise. Not even close, unless having a 3" exhaust is also too loud (and then you might need to stop modifying cars). This isn't a a jab at Gorf, as I'm sure his must have been very obnoxious like other folks' twin-discs.

 

[jakelandry]

Thanks for the input about the gear driven version, definitely something ill be considering when I tear this one up. I put it all back in today after inspecting it all again. There's definitely not enough play anywhere for the sound to be the floater and pressure disks beating on the pressure plate. Maybe I just got one of the noisy ones, who knows.

 

[gorf]

Definitely nothing to even make anyone consider pulling it just because of the noise. Not even close, unless having a 3" exhaust is also too loud (and then you might need to stop modifying cars). This isn't a a jab at Gorf, as I'm sure his must have been very obnoxious like other folks' twin-discs.

Like anything you do to a car, it all depends on what your goals are.
If you have a 400 hp street car, a twin disk is not only overkill, it is loud.
If you have a 600+ hp track car, a twin disk is the way to go.
Anything in between and you have to decide if you can live with the noise.

This noise is a LOT more obnoxious than a 3" exhaust and cams. Who can get upset about throaty loping sound coming from your car???
On the other hand a metallic rattling every time you down shift can (and did) bug the bejesus out of you.

 

[DRTredHEAD]

I have a spec mini twin..same thing chirps and chatters. That was my worry but I'll live with it...oh and mine is pretty loud too.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I put mine in because it was less than a week to the shootout, and I was looking at big chunks of friction material missing from my 6 pad sprung disk. After searching everywhere local to me, the twin disk setup with and aluminum flywheel was the only thing immediately available.

It shifts phenomenally, and it was nice to be able to bang out five 12.0xx passes in a row, hopefully with a little luck it will stop me having to do a clutch every summer (5000 miles), but on a quiet car like mine, it just sounds like crap. I have my shop name on my car, so even though I know it's fine, I don't really like having it sound like it's about to break.

 

[TSiAWD666]

Like anything you do to a car, it all depends on what your goals are.
If you have a 400 hp street car, a twin disk is not only overkill, it is loud.
If you have a 600+ hp track car, a twin disk is the way to go.
Anything in between and you have to decide if you can live with the noise.

This noise is a LOT more obnoxious than a 3" exhaust and cams. Who can get. pset about throaty loping sound coming from your car???
On the other hand a metallic rattling every time you down shift can (and did) bug the bejesus out of you.

No one questioned your noise level so unbunch your panties. My point was that somehow my setup, either by grace of god, a revision of parts, or perhaps a lucky combination of parts (there's a lot of options to customize twin disc setups) mine is in no way loud enough to bother anyone enough to yank it. Maybe we'll hear from others with similar experiences, or maybe I am just the lone lucky bastard.

 

[twicks69]

No one questioned your noise level so unbunch your panties. My point was that somehow my setup, either by grace of god, a revision of parts, or perhaps a lucky combination of parts (there's a lot of options to customize twin disc setups) mine is in no way loud enough to bother anyone enough to yank it. Maybe we'll hear from others with similar experiences, or maybe I am just the lone lucky bastard.

Mine is nice and quiet; the Fluidampr and the Gear Drive disks definitely help.

 

[gofer]

I've been holding off installing a Fluidampr on my stock 7-bolt, saving it for the 2.3, but you two have me tempted to do a before/after sound check.

 

[acidreian]

So this may sound silly or stupid you pick.. i ran a QM twin disc after installing it it sounded normal but started making the same noise that your hearing... i took it back out and made sure my clutch travel ball was shimmer to engage the clutch all the way it was good put it back together and it was quite again... was like damn.. then it came back after a couple of days... any how moral of my story is....
the Bolts holding your tranny to block you must have all 4 bolts including the special one in the back that is a bi*** to get to unless the Tcase is off...
My bolts where getting loose and backing out. randomly making the clutch engage cockeyed and making that noise.

Step 1 go buy perm RED locktight.
step 2 make sure you using good bolts good threads.
step 3 check all bolts to be torqued to right torch for the bolt size.
Step 4 magic quite QM twin disc..

just my experience. and my own solution.

I also cant guarantee you used the right clutch fork that clears the bolts of the clutch

 

[jakelandry]

So this may sound silly or stupid you pick.. i ran a QM twin disc after installing it it sounded normal but started making the same noise that your hearing... i took it back out and made sure my clutch travel ball was shimmer to engage the clutch all the way it was good put it back together and it was quite again... was like damn.. then it came back after a couple of days... any how moral of my story is....
the Bolts holding your tranny to block you must have all 4 bolts including the special one in the back that is a bi*** to get to unless the Tcase is off...
My bolts where getting loose and backing out. randomly making the clutch engage cockeyed and making that noise.

Step 1 go buy perm RED locktight.
step 2 make sure you using good bolts good threads.
step 3 check all bolts to be torqued to right torch for the bolt size.
Step 4 magic quite QM twin disc..

just my experience. and my own solution.

I also cant guarantee you used the right clutch fork that clears the bolts of the clutch

That's an interesting story. While I don't believe that to have been my issue, it is something to consider for those of us with 6 bolt motors on 2g transmissions where we already lose some of the mounting points between the block and transmission.