2G In search of the e85 hx40 guys.

[Cynxe]

Looking for some help with a timing curve and fuel maps. Im currently at 30psi. And have adjusted fairly accordingly, but my car kinda bogs down at around 24psi. Looking for some pictures of maps or maybe even a tune i can reflash and modify.
Pte 1200s
E85
30psi hx40
Black box ecu
Speed density

 

[Justin Lauscher]

Cams? Intake? .55 or t3 housing? What's your timing @ peak torque? What does it ramp up to?

 

[Cynxe]

Cams? Intake? .55 or t3 housing? What's your timing @ peak torque? What does it ramp up to?

Stock cams for now. Im logging with evo scan. So im unsure where to look for peak timing. I cant figure out how to switch to 2 byte from 1 byte. It only logs to 160 load then nothing passed that. My car pulls good to 24psi. It could obviously pull harder. Do you have a picture of your fuel map, timing and or your VE tables?

 

[livedsm4g63]

Post a log.

 

[Cynxe]

Post a log.

I will be posting a log here pretty quick

 

[Cynxe]

Here are my logs

 

[97gsxIA]

Fill out a profile.
Stock cams running an hx40 at 30 psi isn't going to help your top end one iota.

You need to let it breathe or its going to fall on it's face over 6K.

Since most people running a similar setup to yours (like myself) have much larger cams than stock and much larger injectors than 1200s and most likely a lot more supporting mods (we wouldn't know because you have no profile) our VE tables aren't going to do you squat but make it run like garbage. They won't even look them same.

Off the evo forums:
"look in "EvoScan" at the logger and find load 1Byte, theres a request ID (mine is 4,1), then open up "EcuFlash", and open up your rom, and then open up the MUT table, and look at MUT (4,1), and check to see if you have the correct value for your rom. Then make sure that your value for 2Byte to 1Byte Load factor (1.2) (in EcuFlash) is in your formula for 1Byte Load in EvoScan (1.2*x).

Now if your using another MUT location, just change the Request ID to match your MUT table..."

We need to see your tune to help you with it. Giving you a table to look at isn't going to help you. You need to understand how it all works together and what you should be seeing for your setup.

Have you ever tuned before? I would advise some reading.

 

[livedsm4g63]

WT-F are these logs... Lm fao.. So much wrong I dont even know where to start.

 

[97gsxIA]

Here are my logs

Do a MAP Trace on your data so us who don't have evoscan can see it outside of excel docs.

EDIT
Here's another forum that discusses MAP Tracer if you can't get it to work properly.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ecuflash/443043-evoscan-map-tracer.html

 

[livedsm4g63]

Do a MAP Trace on your data so us who don't have evoscan can see it outside of excel docs

Im using a 3rd party tool that I cannot give out. But theres a ton wrong. Be ready.

 

[Cynxe]

Fill out a profile.
Stock cams running an hx40 at 30 psi isn't going to help your top end one iota.

You need to let it breathe or its going to fall on it's face over 6K.

Since most people running a similar setup to yours (like myself) have much larger cams than stock and much larger injectors than 1200s and most likely a lot more supporting mods (we wouldn't know because you have no profile) our VE tables aren't going to do you squat but make it run like garbage. They won't even look them same.

Off the evo forums:
"look in "EvoScan" at the logger and find load 1Byte, theres a request ID (mine is 4,1), then open up "EcuFlash", and open up your rom, and then open up the MUT table, and look at MUT (4,1), and check to see if you have the correct value for your rom. Then make sure that your value for 2Byte to 1Byte Load factor (1.2) (in EcuFlash) is in your formula for 1Byte Load in EvoScan (1.2*x).

Now if your using another MUT location, just change the Request ID to match your MUT table..."

We need to see your tune to help you with it. Giving you a table to look at isn't going to help you. You need to understand how it all works together and what you should be seeing for your setup.

Have you ever tuned before? I would advise some reading.

Arp mains
-Arp 2000 rod bolts
-Arp headstuds
-Acl race main bearings
-Acl race rod bearings
-Weisco ap 9:1 pistons
-Eagle rods
-micropolished Crank
-3g revised lifters
-Cometic Headgasket
-4bar map
-Speed Density
-1g n/a throttle body
-Gates racing blue timing belt
-Balance shaft elimination, only using oem mitsu parts
-Braided tank to rail w/AN fittings
-Aeromotive fpr
-Twin 255s, (need sending unit)
-pte 1200s
-e85
-Blackbox ecu
-Cx racing huge fmic, short route
-90 intake pipe welded bung for Iat sensor
-Tubular t3 manifold, modified for 44mm external wastegate
-Godspeed external vband 44mm wastegate (held 32psi no problem)
-Wastegate dump tube (custom)
-Fresh rebuilt Holset Hx40, t3 housing (no shaftplay)
-Braided oil feed and return
-A/C delete
-Cx Racing aluminum radiator
-Oem mitsu oil pickup tube w/gasket
-New waterpump
-Brand new gaskets and seals all the way through

 

[Cynxe]

Im using a 3rd party tool that I cannot give out. But theres a ton wrong. Be ready.

Help me out. Tell me what's wrong so i can learn.

 

[livedsm4g63]

my car kinda bogs down at around 24psi.

I wonder if its because you are running 25+deg of timing up top....Please have someone else tune your car, or do more reading. Im not teaching a tuning class from square one.

You want a good start, make sure you see 100% throttle when you go WOT...This is how far back you have to learn.

 

[Cynxe]

I wonder if its because you are running 25+deg of timing up top....Please have someone else tune your car, or do more reading. Im not teaching a tuning class from square one.

I knew that shit was wrong. I kept asking questions. And everyone was saying increase the number for more boost. I had it at +19 and +20 high end. Then increased

 

[Cynxe]

I wonder if its because you are running 25+deg of timing up top....Please have someone else tune your car, or do more reading. Im not teaching a tuning class from square one.

You want a good start, make sure you see 100% throttle when you go WOT...This is how far back you have to learn.

I have tried and tried to look for threads and cant find any. This is a last resort. Guys like you that have the knowledge dont put it out so others can learn. Im literally at a stand still. I just need a little guidance. And not for someone else to do it for me so i cant learn at all.

 

[97gsxIA]

There are HUNDREDS of posts and articles on how to tune. No one is hiding secrets from you.

Start here for ECUFlash and evoscan:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-get-a-basic-tune-with-ecuflash.407715/

*EDIT*
Sorry that's not using evoscan, but here's the link
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/evoscan-and-ecuflash-tuning.311214/


Start here if you get ECMlink:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/basic-dsmlink-tuning-guide.262460/

Those are two basic "101" crash courses into tuning and thousands more out there if you just use the search tool.

I can see the throttlepos being off and timing is pretty courageous up top to say the least, but I can't see your AFR's, your knock, your max octane/timing tables for targets, your fuel globals or your VE (SD) table. I can't see what values your capturing let alone displaying in your log (unless the few in your spreadsheet are it. So its not like I can tell you anything at this point. Your fuel trim levels are all at 0 while youre cruising- that makes no sense to me.

Fill out a actual profile, don't just spew your mods on a post.

We're trying to help you here....

 

[livedsm4g63]

I didnt look that far into it but he is prolly running in open loop while cruising, hence the zeros you speak of. Injectors more then likely are not scaled correctly.

Also, if you are using evoscan/open ecu please read the following. To be honest, you should just read the below to gain the concept of tuning.

http://www.evoscan.com/ecuflash/Merlins EcuFlash EVO 7-8-9 TUNING GUIDE-V1.7a.pdf

 

[97gsxIA]

I knew that sh** was wrong. I kept asking questions. And everyone was saying increase the number for more boost. I had it at +19 and +20 high end. Then increased

By "everyone" you mean the 5-6 20 year old kids in Ottumwa who can't tune a radio knob?

Sorry, I had to say that. Ya'll down there aren't exactly building a great rep for yourselves in the tuning department. But I digress, just do some simple reading, turn the damn boost down and trust only what you've read by reputable people, not Joe-Blow-mcSouthern Iowa.

 

[boostdawd]

Start low with timing and increase as needed. Personally I would drop it down to 14/15. E85 doesn't knock as much until damage is done.

What type of plugs are u running and where are they gapped?

 

[wishihadatalon]

At 30psi with a hx40 on stock cams, I had timing in the 12-13 degree range up top. Anything more than that and I was peppering the plugs. I can't look at your logs, but based on the feed back you're receiving, I'd turn the boost down as much as you can and start from square one getting everything in order. Making power is easy once the other things are in order.

 

[livedsm4g63]

So I pulled up another one of his logs because... rabbit hole... and it does have him hitting 30psi. However this time it is showing 5 deg up top.
The weird thing, Im not sure the OP knows how to do a "pull". They start by easing into the pull.(30% throttle until like 5k) They stay in it (90% throttle) to about 6k, from 5k.. After 6k they start to ease out of it, yet the RMP is still going up. (to about 7k)

OP. Zero out your throttle so when you go WOT you see 100%. This can be done with the car off, vehicle key on.
From there, make sure your injectors are dialed in right and your fuel trims are within +-5%. After this is when you can start doing pulls.
A pull consists of starting out at around (for this turbo) 3-4k and stay in it until redline. (Whatever that is for you.) Meaning it should read 100% throttle until you decide to let off. None of this half throttle crap.

When you have completed this, report back with a new log.

 

[Cynxe]

So I pulled up another one of his logs because... rabbit hole... and it does have him hitting 30psi. However this time it is showing 5 deg up top.
The weird thing, Im not sure the OP knows how to do a "pull". They start by easing into the pull.(30% throttle until like 5k) They stay in it (90% throttle) to about 6k, from 5k.. After 6k they start to ease out of it, yet the RMP is still going up. (to about 7k)

OP. Zero out your throttle so when you go WOT you see 100%. This can be done with the car off, vehicle key on.
From there, make sure your injectors are dialed in right and your fuel trims are within +-5%. After this is when you can start doing pulls.
A pull consists of starting out at around (for this turbo) 3-4k and stay in it until redline. (Whatever that is for you.) Meaning it should read 100% throttle until you decide to let off. None of this half throttle crap.

When you have completed this, report back with a new log.

I cannot get my fuel trims to appear. I will read on the link for ecuflash though

 

[Cynxe]

So I pulled up another one of his logs because... rabbit hole... and it does have him hitting 30psi. However this time it is showing 5 deg up top.
The weird thing, Im not sure the OP knows how to do a "pull". They start by easing into the pull.(30% throttle until like 5k) They stay in it (90% throttle) to about 6k, from 5k.. After 6k they start to ease out of it, yet the RMP is still going up. (to about 7k)

OP. Zero out your throttle so when you go WOT you see 100%. This can be done with the car off, vehicle key on.
From there, make sure your injectors are dialed in right and your fuel trims are within +-5%. After this is when you can start doing pulls.
A pull consists of starting out at around (for this turbo) 3-4k and stay in it until redline. (Whatever that is for you.) Meaning it should read 100% throttle until you decide to let off. None of this half throttle crap.

When you have completed this, report back with a new log.

My car is also auto. So i really have no control of when it shifts unless i blue wire mod, so forgive my pull. Idk how it's +5 @30PSI when i dont have anything near that up there

 

[Cynxe]

By "everyone" you mean the 5-6 20 year old kids in Ottumwa who can't tune a radio knob?

Sorry, I had to say that. Ya'll down there aren't exactly building a great rep for yourselves in the tuning department. But I digress, just do some simple reading, turn the damn boost down and trust only what you've read by reputable people, not Joe-Blow-mcSouthern Iowa.

No. I wouldn't ask them to help. I was talking to people who have high power cars. But apparently they didn't know either. I would research and id read about pulling and adding timing. But when i would tell them im supposed to take it away they said i was supposed to add. Of course you could understand my confusion

So I pulled up another one of his logs because... rabbit hole... and it does have him hitting 30psi. However this time it is showing 5 deg up top.
The weird thing, Im not sure the OP knows how to do a "pull". They start by easing into the pull.(30% throttle until like 5k) They stay in it (90% throttle) to about 6k, from 5k.. After 6k they start to ease out of it, yet the RMP is still going up. (to about 7k)

OP. Zero out your throttle so when you go WOT you see 100%. This can be done with the car off, vehicle key on.
From there, make sure your injectors are dialed in right and your fuel trims are within +-5%. After this is when you can start doing pulls.
A pull consists of starting out at around (for this turbo) 3-4k and stay in it until redline. (Whatever that is for you.) Meaning it should read 100% throttle until you decide to let off. None of this half throttle crap.

When you have completed this, report back with a new log.

Also. These logs were from last night. I log every time i drive. I would attempt a pull, but when it bogged down id let off i didnt want to harm my engine. I sent the log on my lunch. I apologize theres not enough info

 

[97gsxIA]

Just start over. It sounds like someone handed you a sh*t-sandwich and you're trying to reverse engineer it without knowing the things you need to know.

Read through some of the links and get an understanding of how things should be approached and what values to look for.


Regardless of software, you need to make sure your globals are spot on for your fuel type and injector size.

then dial in your idle based on ISC position/learnedidleadjust (controlled though BISS adjustment - make sure you do it properly) then get airflowperrev close to .25 (bigger cams will be ok closer to .28 or .30) with the cells you're targetting through SD (add a number to increase airflowperrev, subtract from number to decrease) This will make your combined fuel trims offset, so get those back in line by adding or subtracting deadtime to get it up close to +/-2%
VIOLA you have a tuned idle.

Nxt is cruising (which requires an all closedloop log of various driving conditions that aren't WOT/openloop), taking a log and going in (by hand) and adjusting the values in your SD table to get their corresponding fuel trim% in the log to +/-2% extrapolating the data to make things "look" smooth for all types of driving.
VIOLA you can idle and cruise your car.

WOT tuning requires 100% throttle pulls from 3K->whatever your setup allows- cross referencing targetted AFR with actual wideband AFR', boost readings, and then starting with stock(ish) timing targets, adding only when youve reached your target boost (in your case I'd advice stock wastegate pressure and adding conservatively) with no knock. Then back the timing off based on Knockretard (in evoscan I think its KnockSum)

There is tons more to be considered as this is the very tip of the iceberg but this is as dumb as I can make it without spewing a books worth of knowledge onto you.

AND all of that relies on the fact that you're running the right plug/gap,you have zero boost leaks, fuel pressure is spot on, and have no other mechanical problems.