Important: Improvements on Saturn Alternator Swap

[talondsp1]

Ended up installing my new autolite saturn alternator I got from a friend yesterday. I wired everything up following all the directions posted. With the "L" wire to the stock plug and my 16gauge "S" wire to my battery. It was working great with a consistent 14.1 volts at idle until later that night. I noticed that the dash brake light and battery light were coming on dim intermediately. I got the car home with the smell of something burning. So I pop the hood to see the factory 2x 8gauge power cables have burned through the rubber protector.

I do know that the dash brake light and battery light can indicate a bad voltage regulator as stated here. But my concern is that its a brand new autolite alternator, and the fact that the power cable connected to the alternator got so hot that it burnt threw the rubber protector and a bit of the wire itself. Could a bad voltage regulator do this to the actual power cable on the alternator? I'm kind of bummed since the alternator didn't even last a day, and don't want a unreliable setup thats going to fail this easily.

I did have a bit of load on the alternator. I had my headlights, heater fans and music playing.

Any thoughts?

Those stock wires can become corroded and cause current flow issues. You either had an issue like that, a loose connection or a short in that wire.

Just run you a new 4 to 8 gauge wire from the alternator to the battery. And put a fuse in between. 100 amp should do if you have stock alt.

Make sure you use good ring terminals that are crimped good and soldered if possible. Make sure every connection is tight and clean. Battery terminals , all wires from stock fuse box to battery etc.

Any lose or corroded connections will cause a voltage drop. Then the regulator will increase output to compensate, that will cause the loose or coroded connection to get hot because it can't flow the proper current.

 

[talondsp1]

I was able to walk a 38" belt on it without too much issue. I think there might be a difference in the 6-bolt / 7-bolt engine and the dimensions of the alternator mounting or something.


On a side note, I purchased a 39" belt to get me by for the weekend. It fit extremely easily and I was happily boosting in no-time! I'll go back to the 38" belt once my longer, grade 10.9 bolt comes in.

The only issue is that when I first cranked the engine up, I was getting 14.3v and once I took it for a drive I was seeing low 13's/high 12's. I'm not sure what the issue is. My wire configuration is as follows:

CS Type Alternator with the Dorman 85854 plug

ALT PLUG >>>>> DSM Harness

L Wire (Brown) >>>>> Black/yellow wire (it used to go to the ALT plug)

S Wire (Red, 12g) >>>>> Ran 12g wire to my factory dist block off the pos. terminal of the battery. Specifically to my 30 amp fuel pump breaker ( I used to have ABS, so now I use that slot for my fuel pump re-wire)

Charging Cable >>>>> 4g wire to the 80Amp fuse in the fuse box, then 4G to the pos terminal.

Any ideas? I'm going to ground the alt tomorrow from the alt case to the chassis and see if that helps.

Ground your case. That is always good even if it doesn't fix this issue. But it will prob help.
The voltage will drop a little as the alternator get hot. Is yours getting a lot of heat from the exhaust?

Grounding my case, and running my S wire to the efi relay area in the car got my voltage right on my old setup.
I seen the biggest voltage drop there.

I have since re did the stock wires in that area and voltage is the same everywhere.

 

[knochgoon24]

So I had too much time on my hands, and looked into other alternators that may work.

Looks like a 93 Chevy Camaro 3.4L V6 alt is the same housing as the Saturn, and is rated at 105 amps.

AutoZone Prices:
Saturn $105
Camaro $92

Might be something to look into if you're going to do the swap.

Also, the alternator is known as a CS130D. So if you need parts for one, use that to search online.

 

[turbosax2]

Also, the alternator is known as a CS130D. So if you need parts for one, use that to search online.

Be warned that not all these cases are the same (for whatever reason). I purchased a 140A Powermaster alternator, and it's different. It won't even bolt up with my alternator relocation kit because it's missing a threaded hole. I'm still trying to work it out with them.

 

[knochgoon24]

From what I can tell in the photos (RockAuto, Autozone, etc), the Camaro alt has the same upper mounting hole, 10mm, unthreaded.

High output alternators, High Amp Alternators, Alternator & Starter Parts - Home

They seem to have quite a few parts for it.

And correction on the alternator part number, they made both CS-130 and CS-130D's.

I'll be checking on the Camaro Alt later tonight or Friday at work.

 

[turbosax2]

The one I have would bolt on the front of the engine like a normal Saturn swap I bet. But putting it on the back is a no-go because of the lack of the threaded hole in the case (not normally used for mounting). Wes, PM me if you want to give the one I have a shot (it's a bit more pricey than those Autozone ones though...)

Edit: Actually it might not bolt up on the front of the engine. The section that the pivot bolt goes through might be too narrow.

 

[black_gst]

how did you get the oem mitsu pulley on the saturn??? also would you make another one ill send you a oem pulley

^^^^ Yes, please elaborate on this.

the OEM mitsu pulley ID is a tad smaller then the shaft on the saturn Alt so i had it machined bigger. any machine shop should be able to do this, the place where i get my Alt have a lathe there so they did it right there for me

 

[HIGHPSI4]

I am starting the swap on my 1G. I was looking for a very low voltage source and I realized that the ecu has a fuel pump voltage input. So, the lowest voltage point in the car can be tapped at the ecu, pin 13, BLK/WH wire.

 

[knochgoon24]

I checked the Camaro alternator. It is the same as the Saturn alt, but is rated at 105 amps and is cheaper.

For those looking to do this swap, it definitely looks like a better way to go. I'll double check the plug when I finish my lunch break. Forgot to do that.


EDIT: Checked it. It's the same plug and everything. Looks like the way to go.

 

[My1GLaser]

I am starting the swap on my 1G. I was looking for a very low voltage source and I realized that the ecu has a fuel pump voltage input. So, the lowest voltage point in the car can be tapped at the ecu, pin 13, BLK/WH wire.

Does having your fuel pump rewired affect this location as a good choice? My voltage is good except for at night when I turn on my headlights. Its really annoying!!

 

[ed1380]

Is it possible to tie into the headlights? take the voltage drop at the source

 

[HIGHPSI4]

No because the rewire is on the other side of the rewire relay. You still have the low voltage wire there turning on the relay.

 

[Spoolin98]

Subscribing...

I just read this whole thread and man there's a lot of information and different ways of getting this done.

Anyone have time to draw up a diagram of what goes where and the sizes of wires for the 3 wire hook up?

 

[jamel16]

Quick question, I am in the middle of doing my wire tuck and I deleted the oem alternator wiring with the intention of using the saturn alternator 1-wire hook up. By reading this thread i have decided to use the gm 3-wire harness for better performance out of the saturn alternator. My question is how can i incorporate the gm 3-wire harness into my wire tuck since I deleted the oem alternator wiring?

 

[miguelmcv]

I checked the Camaro alternator. It is the same as the Saturn alt, but is rated at 105 amps and is cheaper.

For those looking to do this swap, it definitely looks like a better way to go. I'll double check the plug when I finish my lunch break. Forgot to do that.


EDIT: Checked it. It's the same plug and everything. Looks like the way to go.

Can you elaborate with the Year and model to look at it.

 

[knochgoon24]

Can you elaborate with the Year and model to look at it.

93-95 Chevy Camaro 3.4L V6
93-95 Pontiac Firebird 3.4L V6

Chevy Alt

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Saturn Alt

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I just noticed that the pulley on the Camaro alternator looks smaller. A quick search says it's 57mm (2.25in), and the Saturn one I have on my bench measures 67mm (2.6in).

 

[miguelmcv]

Thank you Knoch,

I was searching right now, and I did found them, they are very alike, the difference is just the back heat shield, the camaro doesn't have it, but all the rest is the same.

Saturn alternator is running around $140 96amp, and the camaro is running around $99 105amp.

I have lifetime warranty on my crappy 90amp galant alternator (autopart)., I'm about to replace it which the bearing start making some noise.

I just order the camaro to give a try and see how it works, (If it is the same).

Hopefully I will get a refund, because the galant alternator (90amp) run me around $150 or some sore of.

I will check and post pics of it is the same.

EDIT.

Finally I installed the alternator,,,, there were a couple of problems that I run through.

1,-- Obviously, grinding, I try to avoid that but couldn't make it, The Camaro alternator is completely rounded, so there is absolutely no grinding on the housing area, however, even like that it didn't work, I didn't have the tools to grind the block, so I just drill out the mounting holes on the alternator, I did that only on the front hole of the alternator, then I took off the adjuster/spacer (or what ever is called) that has on the other side of the alternator (hole) and cut part of it, I just cut it to let the bolt be more towards the out side and be able for the alternator to get farther out of the block bracket.

Here are some pics of what I am talking about.

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With that drilling, I was able to install the alternator with out grinding the block, and I mean NO GRINDING AT ALL.

2,---- The pulley is smaller then the saturn and dsm, but it was long, it is made up for a wider belt, It will fit like that but it leaves less then 1/4 to hit the frame, so the pulley is a NO. I replaced it with an extra one that I had in my garage, The pulley is the same size but shorter in length.

Here are some pics of the pulleys.

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Here is the alternator with the smaller pulley all ready installed.

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3,---- And the last problem that I run through is, IT'S NOT CHARGING.
I hooked up the red wire on stock harness to (S) red wire on 3 wire plug.
Black with yellow stripe on stock harness to (L) brown wire on 3 wire plug.

It was to late and dark, so I didn't go deeper into the problem, So I will check that out tomorrow after my work and see what I did wrong, However here is a pic of the alternator all ready installed.

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[92 GSR-4]

Ground your case. That is always good even if it doesn't fix this issue. But it will prob help.
The voltage will drop a little as the alternator get hot. Is yours getting a lot of heat from the exhaust?

Grounding my case, and running my S wire to the efi relay area in the car got my voltage right on my old setup.
I seen the biggest voltage drop there.

I have since re did the stock wires in that area and voltage is the same everywhere.

I grounded my case with an 8 gauge wire. It's all I had at the time, but I feel it should be sufficient. Issue persists.

My alt is getting some heat from the exhaust. I have the FP Race manifold with a blanket on it. The blanket works well, to the point I can rest my hand on it even after hard driving. The FP O2/44mm gate coming off my 3052 is another story, but I don't think it's excessive heat. I may try to build a heat shield for it.

I had run my S-wire to the fusible link block at the battery and apparently it was a drain on the system and kept killing my battery. So I disconnected it, only to find that I'm getting about the same voltage output.

Can you be more specific about what you did with your S-wire and what wiring you improved in the car? My bluemax injectors run like ass at low voltage.

I'm taking my voltage readings from my turbo timer, also. But I've seen that it is only about .2 lower than what DSMlink logs. Thanks for the response!

 

[knochgoon24]

That close to the frame huh. Dang. I saw where other people mentioned using the 6-rib pulley and they didn't mention a clearance issue, so I thought nothing of it.

 

[miguelmcv]

That close to the frame huh. Dang. I saw where other people mentioned using the 6-rib pulley and they didn't mention a clearance issue, so I thought nothing of it.

Yes, But that clearance was with the original Camaro alternator pulley (150amp) that came with it, It is 6-rib though, but looks like the ribs are more wider and the edge of the pulley is way, but way thicker, which it makes it even more longer, You can see the difference on the pic I posted, I swap the pulley with one from a 1999 Chevy Cavalier, it is smaller then the Saturn pulley, It does has 6-ribs as well but fits perfect.

With the Cavalier pulley, it has the same clearance as the Saturn Pulley, But the Cavalier pulley is smaller (OD), You can see the difference between the Saturn and Cavalier Pulley on post #305.

 

[My1GLaser]

Running the S wire to pin 13 at the ECU (fuel pump relay) netted me about .5 volts higher voltage under all operating conditions on my test drive! I'll see if it remains that way for the long run. I just used a vampire clip.

 

[talondsp1]

I grounded my case with an 8 gauge wire. It's all I had at the time, but I feel it should be sufficient. Issue persists.

My alt is getting some heat from the exhaust. I have the FP Race manifold with a blanket on it. The blanket works well, to the point I can rest my hand on it even after hard driving. The FP O2/44mm gate coming off my 3052 is another story, but I don't think it's excessive heat. I may try to build a heat shield for it.

I had run my S-wire to the fusible link block at the battery and apparently it was a drain on the system and kept killing my battery. So I disconnected it, only to find that I'm getting about the same voltage output.

Can you be more specific about what you did with your S-wire and what wiring you improved in the car? My bluemax injectors run like ass at low voltage.

I'm taking my voltage readings from my turbo timer, also. But I've seen that it is only about .2 lower than what DSMlink logs. Thanks for the response!

The S wire usually isn't a drain. The F wire is for sure though. What all wires are you hooking up? S and L ? L or F will excite the regulator. But just use one to do so if you are using the Sense wire.

If your S wire is draining the battery, then hook it to a spot that is switched and that will solve that.

I had to rewire the wires in my own harness that go to my efi relay. Not sure if they were just old or had always been bad, but there was a big voltage difference between the relay and all other positive wires in the harness.

My ecu would be about 2 volts lower then everywhere else. Made a big difference in the tune when I fixed the wires.

Run the S wire to your fuel pump or to the ecu etc. There is usually a bigger voltage drop there then right at the distribution block near the battery.

If I didn't answer anything just let me know.

David

 

[gprix1]

Just put up a how-to for doing the Saturn alternator bracket in such a way that you retain the OEM function of the tensioner and it's super-simple to do:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/452642-saturn-alternator-bracket-works-like-oem.html

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[DECODER22]

i still wasn't able to get the stock 1g alt pulley on a saturn style alternator i just hate that the saturn alternator has so many extra grooves then needed

 

[richard33]

Im having my own issues now. I installed the saturn alternator using the harness. I hooked up the S wire to an ignition source (the cigarette lighter) since I have some gauges and stuff on that source. Im going to switch it though. I grounded the case and used the stock batt+ wires. When I first started it up it idled at 13.8v or so but once its gets warm it drops to 13.3v. At full boost it was at 12.5v. I put the stock pulley 2g alt pulley on there too btw. I went to the track and after my burnout the plastic cover popped and then the alt failed half way down the track. When the car shifted to 3rd the voltage went from 12.5 to 11.5 and kept dropping. I packed up and left but only made it a few miles before it died. Im going to change the S wire to my distribution block but the voltage was never as high as some of you guys. What is wrong?