Importance of Timing Belt?

[Eagle96TalonTSi]

My older brother has owned a few DSMs (97 gst, 98 gsx 2.3) and has gotten me hooked on DSMs. I bought a 96 talon tsi fwd and hes having me change the timing belt absolutely first, no questions asked. The motor mounts are out, and the struts are rough due to a aftermarket lowering kit on the stock struts.

I understand the timing belt is crucial in how the motor works, and I am getting it and the water pump done first, but what im wondering is why do DSMs seem to have such a problem with timing belts?

I believe it is every 50-70,000 miles that the timing belt/wp needs to be redone. What is the truth behind the actual mileage I should change the tb/wp again?

 

[idkiliketurbos]

They don't have problems with the timing belts until the owner decides to not change it and then it snaps and your valves bend. The only reason it is suggested is because most people neglect cars and don't do any maintenance and only mod it. A car running is faster than one that isn't running.

 

[95talongirl]

Its not that they have problems with them; it's that a belt wears over time, and these are interference engines. (Actually, a vast majority of 4cly engines are; not just Mitsu's). what this means is if the belt breaks, you risk damage to the valves and pistons.

As such, the timing belt becomes a maintainence item. If you do not know the history on the car, it is a good idea to do it as a precaution. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Eagle96TalonTSi]

Its not that they have problems with them; it's that a belt wears over time, and these are interference engines. (Actually, a vast majority of 4cly engines are; not just Mitsu's). what this means is if the belt breaks, you risk damage to the valves and pistons.

As such, the timing belt becomes a maintainence item. If you do not know the history on the car, it is a good idea to do it as a precaution. Better safe than sorry.

Thats the problem, is the owner had no idea when the timing belt had been changed. THey owned the car for 2 weeks (craigslist car flippers) and did not know any maintenance that had been done to the car.

Anything else I should do besides the tb/wp, and front seals before getting into modifications? I have motor mounts/inserts and the new struts on the way already. What else before I worry about exhaust/ic piping ect.

 

[pauleyman]

They have a bad reputation because most 4 cylinder motors interference or not are not high performance. Many motors have a recommended change of the timing belt at 60k but may make it to 100k before it breaks. This is rarely if ever the case with DSMs. There is no hard evidence that I know of to support a change more frequent than 60k but it stands to reason a modified DSM would require more frequent changes. It's cheap enough I do mine at 40k and I change everything except the water pump which I will do every other time depending on the mods of the car. If there is no history on a car I require I change it all without question. It's just too cheap not to.

 

[My1GLaser]

Like already mentioned; it is much more of a concern on an interference engine where engine damage can happen.

Unlike a mid-90s ford Escort I put a timing belt on for someone...belt broke and there was no damage, she was just stranded. Same thing happened to a lady I know with an older Cavalier...no damage, the engine just shut off.

How many miles? I'd think about valve stem seals, and cam seals & front main seal/BSE while you're doing the timing. Don't for get the tensioner and pulleys/bearings...

http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

Look into partsdinosaur.com for parts. I have run their timing belt, pullies, lifters, water pump and various other engine components in 4 different cars. 2 of the cars were DSMs. Get the Gates belt if you buy from them!

 

[Eagle96TalonTSi]

Like already mentioned; it is much more of a concern on an interference engine where engine damage can happen.

Unlike a mid-90s ford Escort I put a timing belt on for someone...belt broke and there was no damage, she was just stranded. Same thing happened to a lady I know with an older Cavalier...no damage, the engine just shut off.

How many miles? I'd think about valve stem seals, and maybe cam seals & front main seal/BSE while you're doing the timing. Don't for get the tensioner and pulleys/bearings...

Timing Belt VFAQ

My mechanic has it set up to have my front seals done at the same time as the timing belt/wp. The car has 118k.

The timing belt kit im getting is one from Extreme PSI my brother has setup for me. Not sure on the specs, but its a 300$ kit. Its supposed to come with everything I need as far as timing belt/timing belt accessories goes.

 

[talon2gbuyer]

that always made me wonder.. why didnt they switch to timing chains on these things? Given the timing belt's likelihood to break vs a chain.

 

[DSM1G90]

that always made me wonder.. why didnt they switch to timing chains on these things? Given the timing belt's likelihood to break vs a chain.

Guess again - chains DO break just like fabric covered rubber belts do since the nylon runners that keeps the chain snug gets worn, the teeth of the sprockets gets worn where it can't hold a chain secure on it, and now you that have major chain slack (and timing will be off as well), that chain will snap anytime on a piston's downward power stroke.

And, wanna hear a good story ending: There is no changeout frequency with a chain drive - they can snap when they want to, where as with the belt from a respectable manufacturer needs to come out around 60K miles.

Doing a chain changeout is a PITA compared to a belt due to gaskets on the covers to seal in the oil, cleaning out the bay where the chain is located in, changing out worn drive sprockets, et.al. Have fun if you ever do a chain.

Fabric covered belts are tons more forgiving than any roller chain out there since they've got more flex than a chain can ever imagine. Granted, the new 4B11T motors that Mitsu puts out have a better chain assembly being the silent link multilink chain, but we don't have those motors in our DSM's. plus belts are far more cheaper than any chain can be and easier to manufacture.

Why do you think that the biggest and heavest motorcycle out there and made in the USA - the Harley-Davidson uses a big BELT to power the rear wheel (along with a wide inner belt to power the transmission from the motor), knowing that there is no roller chain strong enough to handle the massive torque that that big long stroke twin up front can produce.

Nah, change your belts out at 60K miles and you'll always be a happy camper.

-DSM

 

[95talongirl]

Yea, the chain vs. belt thing can be debated over and over. Like mentioned, Chains also age and can break, too. Also, they can be noisy. The Chrysler 4.7 and 2.7L engines were notorious for chain noise.

Like everything, there's pros and cons... the core issue at hand is the fact the engine is interference. Chain or belt driven, you will have to take extra care with these types of engines.

 

[1Gina2G]

Speaking of changing things at 60,000 miles...when changing things at that mileage, should one also go ahead and change the rubber oil seals for the crankshaft, and oil pump sprockets? Should be possible to change those seals without taking the front case off correct?


I chose to actually buy a kevlar belt. Some say it was a bad idea since I still have to replace everything at 60,000 miles but it's my first timing job and I wanted to have some extra insurance.

 

[IrishBeatdown]

Like already mentioned; it is much more of a concern on an interference engine where engine damage can happen.

Unlike a mid-90s ford Escort I put a timing belt on for someone...belt broke and there was no damage, she was just stranded. Same thing happened to a lady I know with an older Cavalier...no damage, the engine just shut off.

How many miles? I'd think about valve stem seals, and cam seals & front main seal/BSE while you're doing the timing. Don't for get the tensioner and pulleys/bearings...

Timing Belt VFAQ

Look into partsdinosaur.com for parts. I have run their timing belt, pullies, lifters, water pump and various other engine components in 4 different cars. 2 of the cars were DSMs. Get the Gates belt if you buy from them!

This. Bruce is a pimp daddy as well, will help out with whatever, great customer service. Unbeatable prices and quality on timing belt components and revised lifters.

 

[DaRKSiDeGSX]

haha ...I just suffered a perfect storm of issues with timing.

fresh build, 500 miles...

1. oil pump locked up (I didn't lock tire the bse stub) dumbass..if you eliminate the BS and I suggest you do. cut the shafts or install the stub with red lock tite

2. the non-oe timing belt stripped (given the locked oil pump any belt may have done this) install OEM or Kevlar only

3. the valves then bent in the recently refurbished head...love interference engines..

4. there are 2-3 shorter bolts through the front case, if you put the wrong ones in it'll put a groove in your belt

5. replace the hydraulic tensioner, it can fail and cause belt slippage.

being an interference engine leaves no room for half assing or cutting corners

 

[foxracing4500]

i just made a thread about lining the cam gears perfectly but I failed at my first attempt and the 2nd time around it went alot smoother. I am just your average guy with tools, so do it! You have plenty of support. I bet now knowing what I know I could do a timing belt under 3 hours.

 

[1bad4g]

most important.
1 count your 9 to 3 teeth on cam gears
2 6 full crank turns check timming marks.
3 check tentioner arm plunger gap. very important to make sure the check valve in tentioner will work

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

i just made a thread about lining the cam gears perfectly but I failed at my first attempt and the 2nd time around it went alot smoother. I am just your average guy with tools, so do it! You have plenty of support. I bet now knowing what I know I could do a timing belt under 3 hours.

Get it under one hour:thumbup:

 

[jasonbaz85]

Lots of people have said it. If you do not change your timing belt, and it snaps, your in deep trouble. Damage to your engine can occur. Even if you are not sure about the belt, maybe you can take off the TBC and take a look at the belt itself. If it has slack on the side that isnt supposed to have slack, or if the belt looks cracked or worn, safe to say get it replaced. I would get it replaced in the next 20k of owning the car anyway just to be safe. Enjoy your ride!

 

[DUOeclipse]

"A car running is faster than one that isn't running." Now that has to be the most intelligent car quote I've ever heard!

They don't have problems with the timing belts until the owner decides to not change it and then it snaps and your valves bend. The only reason it is suggested is because most people neglect cars and don't do any maintenance and only mod it. A car running is faster than one that isn't running.