igntion timming help

[89fox]

I have a 92 talon 2.0 fwd and i actually got it for free from a local dealer and when i got it someone had stolen a few parts out of it and it wasnt getting spark or fuel, i soon realized that the tranny computer and ecu relay and a few other things were missing so i got all the stuff and installed them and now it has spark, fuel and compression but still isnt running

so im pretty sure i screwed up the timing becasue before i realized the tranny computer was gone i had replaced the CAS and i dont think i did it properly. all i did was unbolt it and put the new one in without realizing it had to go in a certain way and since then i have pulled it out a few times to try to get the timing right but im not familar with these cars and im basically clueless

any help is appreciated

anybody?

 

[Colt4G63 also]

You'll need to take the CAS back off and you'll notice a small mark on one side of the paddle thing that engages the cam. Line that mark up with the small mark in the CAS housing.

Then remove three bolts and take off the upper timing cover. Turn the engine over in small clicks until the locating dowels in the cam are facing up, and the marks in the cam sprockets are aligned with the top of the head/bottom of the valve cover.

Now put the CAS back on. This would also be a good time to pull #1 plug and check that it's really at TDC, then check your harmonic balancer to see if it agrees that you are at TDC. The balancers outer ring sometimes slips and leaves the marks in the wrong spot.

Now ground the timing test connector, and set timing to 5*btdc with a timing light.

 

[89fox]

Ok cool ill try that now, but i dont have a timming light. is it really neccesary or could i eyeball it to be close enough?

also not to seem dumb, but how would i set the timming to 5 degrees BTDC?

 

[doubleclutch99]

there's a timing pointer next to the harmonic dampenor . and you'll need a timing light. so if you can just borrow one.

 

[89fox]

ok so i lined everything up right and it all checked out fine, so i thought why not just ground the timing connector and turn the crank pulley to 5 degrees BTDC. so i did and it didnt really work the car got better though, it would backfire instead of just turning over

im gonna try it again with a timing light as you suggested

but how would i use it if the car isnt running?

 

[nehring8]

you can try different settings for the timing until you get the car running, it own't hurt anything if you are way off. just rotate the cas about 1/8 of an inch at a shot, somewhere in the adjustment the car will run if everything else is correct, when the car is running then set the timing with a light

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

You'll need to take the CAS back off and you'll notice a small mark on one side of the paddle thing that engages the cam. Line that mark up with the small mark in the CAS housing.

Then remove three bolts and take off the upper timing cover. Turn the engine over in small clicks until the locating dowels in the cam are facing up, and the marks in the cam sprockets are aligned with the top of the head/bottom of the valve cover.

Now put the CAS back on. This would also be a good time to pull #1 plug and check that it's really at TDC, then check your harmonic balancer to see if it agrees that you are at TDC. The balancers outer ring sometimes slips and leaves the marks in the wrong spot.

Now ground the timing test connector, and set timing to 5*btdc with a timing light.

To pick up where he left off:

After verifying that your CAS is properly installed, start the car and let it warm up to normal operating temp. Make sure that all accessories are off, transmission is in neutral, and the idle is 750 +/- 100. (If your idle is out of spec, follow these instructions to set the idle first: 1G BISS Adjustment)

Ground the timing adjustment plug located behind the battery (it's usually taped to the wire harness).

Attach you timing light to the battery and hook up the inductive clamp to the spark plug wire coming out of cylinder #1 (the one on the driver's side, closest to the timing belt)

Aim the light at the harmonic dampener (Crankshaft pulley).

As the light flashes you will see the timing mark illuminated, turn the CAS to advance or retard the timing while watching the illuminated mark until it lines up at 5* BTDC.

Once you are there, tighten down the CAS, remove the timing light, unground the adjustment clip, and live happily ever after.

Here is the VFAQ for setting the timing complete with pictures: Engine Timing

Here is a picture of the timing marks on the harmonic dampener (crankshaft pulley):

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Here is a picture of the engine timing adjustment plug, it is usually taped to the harness behind the battery. Remove the cap and there is one prong, ground it to the battery or chassis.

If you have anymore trouble, let us know. Hope this helps!

 

[navyvr4]

you will need to properly set base timing. you need to ground the diag port. you will also need a timing light. you have to rotate the CAS to get timing to where you want it to be. there are a lot of writeups on here on how to do it.

 

[89fox]

lots of helpful info guys, thanks

so I line up the timing gears with the top of the head/bottom of the valve cover, check to see if the crank pulley is set to 0 degrees BTDC and it is, i put in the CAS aligned with the marks on the paddle thing and on the CAS itself and i install it.

since the car wont start i wouldnt be able to use a timing light and so i adjust the CAS with the timing connector grounded from the full retard position (which is how it lined up when i installed it) to about halfway from top to bottom in small increments and it still wont start

It will backfire if i let it sit after i spray a little gas in the TB, but thats about as close as it gets to starting

what else could be the problem?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

lots of helpful info guys, thanks

so I line up the timing gears with the top of the head/bottom of the valve cover, check to see if the crank pulley is set to 0 degrees BTDC and it is, i put in the CAS aligned with the marks on the paddle thing and on the CAS itself and i install it.

since the car wont start i wouldnt be able to use a timing light and so i adjust the CAS with the timing connector grounded from the full retard position (which is how it lined up when i installed it) to about halfway from top to bottom in small increments and it still wont start

It will backfire if i let it sit after i spray a little gas in the TB, but thats about as close as it gets to starting

what else could be the problem?

The car has to be running in order to set the ignition timing. It takes three things to start an engine: air, fuel, and spark. I'm going to assume that have air to check to make sure you have fuel and spark. I saw from your first post that you had fuel and spark but you might want to double check. Also it is very important that all of the timing marks for the timing and bs belts are lined up exactly. The CAS being slightly out of adjustment shouldn't keep it from starting.

 

[LiquidX]

Now as above mentioned, you need to deduce to find out what else you are missing.

Are you getting fuel to the cylinders? Do you have spark getting to the plugs? Do you have air enterin the cylinders all at the right time? You need to verify these 3 things to help us out and also when it's not starting for you, is it attempting to turn over, does it not do anything, what does it to when it doesnt start?

 

[89fox]

ok so i checked each plug wire and cylinder for spark/fuel and every plug wire had a nice blue spark and each plug was wet with gas when i pulled them.

When i try to start it, the engine turns over fine and you can hear and feel it compressing thru the exhaust. I can even smell gas after Its turned over a few good times.


is it safe to say i have an odd problem?

 

[nehring8]

I'm not sure you really have an ignition timing problem. make sure that you check all of the timing belt marks, set the crankshaft to tdc and remove the camshaft gear cover and make sure that the cams are set correctly to the crank (post if you need more instructions on it), if these are correct I might be inclined to try a different MAF as that can keep the car from running...did you say you did a compression check??

 

[89fox]

I didnt do a compression check but when it turns over it compress's just fine, it doesnt turn over at a steady rate it goes thru the intake, compression, power and exhaust strokes.

I can feel air getting sucked in thru the intake and exiting thru the exhaust, so I wouldnt suspect the compression is the issue

The maf controls A/F ratio so if its getting fuel on the plugs, could it still be bad?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Here is something to go by: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html

 

[doubleclutch99]

check the coolant temp sensor. if it's not working or even plugged in, it'll send a negative temp to the ecu and pour fuel in the engine. try holding the gas pedal to the floor for 30 seconds to shut off the injectors from flooding the engine. then see if it'll start.

 

[89fox]

check the coolant temp sensor. if it's not working or even plugged in, it'll send a negative temp to the ecu and pour fuel in the engine. try holding the gas pedal to the floor for 30 seconds to shut off the injectors from flooding the engine. then see if it'll start.

If there were no coolant in the radiator at all (mine is busted open from an accident) would that cause a no-start?

If it was dumping in fuel like that after trying to start the car a LOT of times could it have fouled the plugs to?


9!'clipseDOHC, thanks for the link it was very useful

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

If there were no coolant in the radiator at all (mine is busted open from an accident) would that cause a no-start?

If it was dumping in fuel like that after trying to start the car a LOT of times could it have fouled the plugs to?


9!'clipseDOHC, thanks for the link it was very useful

The car will still start with no coolant. Not the best idea, but yes it will still start. Just don't let it sit and run or drive it though.

Plugs could be fouled, pull them and check. A new set of NGK BPR6ES plugs is only about $13 from any autoparts store. It never hurts to replace them.

You are welcome for the link.

 

[89fox]

Ive been working on the car for a few days now and it still isnt running. I changed the plugs, drained the gas and cleaned out the fuel filter and after putting in some fresh gas it still wont start

What kind of car wont start with spark, fuel, compression and timming WTF

what else could be the problem?