ECMlink I think I can now say I suck at tuning...

[LiquidX]

Even we need help at times

I could really use some help anywhere and everywhere you see it. I've been out doing pulls and adjusting for a while and it seems I'm going backwards. The tune that was on before I started was netting roughly 380 according to the HP reading and now I'm much lower.

The only progress I actually made was getting my KnockRet down to an "acceptable" level.

I'm running Sunoco 93oct gas.

The log attached starts with an idle, I then do a short antilag session and then a 3rd gear pull. I had to stop short (rev limiter is 8250) at 7700 because I've been hearing what seems like back firing.

On the DA table, the MinOct is the table that I originally started with and the MaxOct is where it sits for that log.

Please help me out. I do have a meth kit I need to finish installing as well if that should help things out.
I did perform a boost leak test earlier today and I'm leak free.

 

[BigBeans]

Unfortunately i have no experience with SD, so i'm not sure how much i can help.

You have an LC-1 but aren't logging it, what kind of AFRs are you seeing?

Is the boostest accurate?

 

[LiquidX]

It's under wideband. You still need to select displayable values by hitting "f9"

 

[BigBeans]

It's under wideband. You still need to select displayable values by hitting "f9"

Ahh, got it. I was expecting to see it under LC1WB.

I'm way confused. Your AFR is conservative and you're seeing what appears to be real knock with 2.9* of timing.

My first thought was base timing has to be way off, but the car has decent airflow and no power so that's probably not the case...

You're sure this isn't phantom knock, right?

 

[LiquidX]

Base timing is set to 5*. I've reduced knockret by lowering boost and going richer and lowering the timing cells in the DA table. I'm completely baffled.

This is an earlier log

 

[BigBeans]

Base timing is set to 5*. I've reduced knockret by lowering boost and going richer and lowering the timing cells in the DA table. I'm completely baffled.

This is an earlier log

Holy crap, that's a lot of knock. This isn't your inability to tune, you seem to have things setup well. Something else is going on here.

I don't even know what would cause that amount of knock with so little timing.

How much flow should you expect from an HX40 Pro at this boost level?

Any possible restriction in the custom exhaust you have?

 

[LiquidX]

Holy crap, that's a lot of knock. This isn't your inability to tune, you seem to have things setup well. Something else is going on here.

I don't even know what would cause that amount of knock with so little timing.

How much flow should you expect from an HX40 Pro at this boost level?

Any possible restriction in the custom exhaust you have?

I don't know either and this is why I'm stumped. The exhaust is straight through without a cat full 3" minus the o2 housing at 2.5"


Any timing I add to the tune more knock occurs and I've even been dropped into negative timing.

 

[BLINKY619]

how in the hell do i view this...

 

[BigBeans]

I don't know either and this is why I'm stumped. The exhaust is straight through without a cat full 3" minus the o2 housing at 2.5"


Any timing I add to the tune more knock occurs and I've even been dropped into negative timing.

Ok, so exhaust flow should be decent.


What can you say about the setup? Possible combustion deposits, high compression, or anything else that would lower the knock threshold.

Any issues with the turbo, any oil consumption, etc?

 

[LiquidX]

New build bud look in my profile

New turbo as well

 

[BigBeans]

New build bud look in my profile

New turbo as well

I looked but didn't know it was a new build. I wish i could be more help, but i don't know what to tell you. I don't think i've ever seen a car knock with this little timing.

You've got all the normal bases covered it seems, but that's a given as you're a wiseman.

This amount of knock...

 

[LiquidX]

It's all good. I am going to try some new maps and see how I stand with these first and assess the Knockret. Perhaps too low of timing was inducing knock?

But here are the custom maps I'll be using now. Not exactly sure on how to upload just the fuel and timing DA tables as I've seen before so it's just a "log".

I took notice to the minoct map that is attached as it doesn't match up. I made the map from a different map by accident instead from the maxoct map so please disregard it

 

[BigBeans]

Perhaps too low of timing was inducing knock?

Nah, i've run timing down into the 6-7* range with the 11:1 AFRs and similar boost/flow to what you're seeing, and never had knock start developing.

You can try different maps but i dont think there is going to be any magic in a map change. It's not like there is something way off with the current fuel curve, the A/F is good but the car just won't take timing.

Smoothing out the A/F curve a bit might get you a degree more timing, but you're not looking for a degree, you're looking for 10 degrees. I'd be looking more carefully at the hardware and details than the tune.

 

[LiquidX]

I understand what you are saying and I do need to diagnose if this is any major vibration or noise occuring.

The map change is to help me get back on track with a non jumbled map which the old ones were after I messed with them and then adjust what needs adjusted.

 

[BigBeans]

I understand what you are saying and I do need to diagnose if this is any major vibration or noise occuring.

The map change is to help me get back on track with a non jumbled map which the old ones were after I messed with them and then adjust what needs adjusted.

Well, you had 4+ degrees of knock, pulled timing and it went away. It doesn't seem like that would be phantom knock from a vibration.

I know the car is making less power since you messed with the tune, but at least you're not living on the knock sensor at this point.

If you're still trying to verify it as real knock throw a few gallons of race fuel in it. It sure looks like real knock.

 

[knochgoon24]

I don't see anything wrong with the tune. Maybe you need to try a little race gas and see if that gets rid of the remaining knock.


EDIT:

Are you hitting peak torque right when you start knocking? Maybe you do need a little less timing, but I bet you can start adding some timing and leaning it out again up top to regain some lost power.

 

[LiquidX]

I just really cant grasp on how I am knocking at such low timing, it just doesn't make sense.

 

[BigBeans]

EDIT:

Are you hitting peak torque right when you start knocking? Maybe you do need a little less timing, but I bet you can start adding some timing and leaning it out again up top to regain some lost power.

He's got plenty of fuel and almost no timing advance, he needs to figure out why the car wants to knock. As far as adding timing up top, he's at like 6 degrees peak and flirting with the threshold. Depending on his compression, he should be seeing 15+ at this boost level.

 

[Imback]

If you lower the timing does the knock go down?

 

[deth2u]

Some ideas for you

When was the last time you calibrated your LC1?
Check your intake manifold for cracks, I've had a very small crack on my SD setup drive me nuts for weeks trying to T/S
I've never used ECMLink, what is your base trigger α at if you can change it? That will obviously throw the timing numbers off

 

[Below Ambient]

just curious if you turned the boost down and richened it up at once or did you log each change? just wondering because sometimes if you run it too rich you'll get knock below a certain rpm

 

[knochgoon24]

He's got plenty of fuel and almost no timing advance, he needs to figure out why the car wants to knock. As far as adding timing up top, he's at like 6 degrees peak and flirting with the threshold. Depending on his compression, he should be seeing 15+ at this boost level.

I've seen some cars that can't take much timing at peak torque, but they can usually add more timing in up top again.

What plugs are you running? How do they look?

 

[BigBeans]

Some ideas for you

When was the last time you calibrated your LC1?
Check your intake manifold for cracks, I've had a very small crack on my SD setup drive me nuts for weeks trying to T/S
I've never used ECMLink, what is your base trigger α at if you can change it? That will obviously throw the timing numbers off

His base timing is accurate and he has no boost leaks. The LC1 would have to be WAY off.

just curious if you turned the boost down and richened it up at once or did you log each change? just wondering because sometimes if you run it too rich you'll get knock below a certain rpm

His changes reduced the knock, and AFRs are where they should be for high psi on pump gas.

I've seen some cars that can't take much timing at peak torque, but they can usually add more timing in up top again.

He knocks throughout the curve with very little advance. 3-6 degrees total should not be causing knock, unless he neglected to mention that the motor has 11:1 compression.

 

[LiquidX]

I'll be checking the plugs tonight. LC1 was calibrated last week with the turbo install.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Where do you get your Fuel ?
I would be finding somewhere that has better gas...

Or better yet how far are you from these places...? You've got pretty close to the fuel system for it... .

Sheetz Store #191
1098 Harrisburg Pike
Carlisle PA 17013

Sheetz Store #426
1401 Trindle Rd
Carlisle PA 17013

Sheetz Store #412
6260 Allentown Blvd
Harrisburg PA 17112

Pacific Pride - Worley & Obetz
600 Emaus St
Middletown PA 17057

Tom's Erngsville
3167 Susquehanna Trail
York PA 17406