Hydraulic clutch questions

[74runner]

Hey guy's, I can't remember?
When you push the Slave cylinder in by hand it should push back out on it's own right? (Under it's spring pressure)

My Clutch pedal sticks to the floor, my master is not leaking a drop neither is the slave cylinder (boot is dry inside too). I also checked all of the lines.Yes the fluid is full, new and clean.

When I press in the pedal it's very weak but the slave extends all the way and holds the fork under pressure no problem but the pedal wont pop back up.

I have bled the system several ways and times.Standard bled, Gravity bled and reverse bled and also did the old stand by, Pedal down, bleeder cracked and pushed in the slave piston.

I took the slave off and pulled it all apart, the seal is good, the bore is good and the spring is good. What did I miss here? Bad master? Normally a stuck pedal is caused by a bad slave???

Sorry guy's, this is for my 1991 Eagle Talon awd Turbo

 

[92AWDHX40]

A stuck pedal? I would continue to keep bleeding it, if you cant shift. check the clutch master cylinder it could be leaking inside the car, I would look at that.

 

[74runner]

A stuck pedal? I would continue to keep bleeding it, if you cant shift. check the clutch master cylinder it could be leaking inside the car, I would look at that.

Yes the Clutch pedal sticks it stays on the floor after you step on it, I have to pull it back up by hand. I've checked the Clutch Master cylinder many times through out the whole process and it's still bone dry under the dash on the firewall. I'm sure the slave rod should return on its own after pusing it and the fork in by hand.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

So when you push the pedal in is it stiff? Does it feel like a clutch is on the other end?

You say that its bleed and pushes the Clutch fork but how far does it push it towards the passenger side?

Can you drive the car or put it in gear?

There should also be a functioning Spring on the Clutch Pedal Assembly close to the gas pedal that moves when the clutch pedal is depressed. Does it?

The slave should "grow" on its own but the sticking pedal means that there is no pressure, like the kind needed to operate the clutch. If you answer the questions above we will help you figure it out.

Robert

 

[mitsubishikid]

Are you using an after-market slave cylinder?
cause some times they cheep out, and put the smaller spring inside there
see this post here.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dri...aftermarket-clutch-master-slave-cylinder.html
and I did buy a brute power slave cylinder, and it had the right size spring inside.
it worked perfectly, and it's still on my 1g right now, no issues.
autozone and o'rielys slave cylinders all had the small spring inside as I recall using autozones garbage one, I was bleeding forever and when I did get them to work the pedal would really have to be in the floor to engage gears.
and the clutch pedal would not return to the brake pedals height.
that was when I decided to order the brute power one mentioned in the link above.
night and day.

 

[74runner]

So when you push the pedal in is it stiff? Does it feel like a clutch is on the other end?

You say that its bleed and pushes the Clutch fork but how far does it push it towards the passenger side?

Can you drive the car or put it in gear?

There should also be a functioning Spring on the Clutch Pedal Assembly close to the gas pedal that moves when the clutch pedal is depressed. Does it?

The slave should "grow" on its own but the sticking pedal means that there is no pressure, like the kind needed to operate the clutch. If you answer the questions above we will help you figure it out.

Robert

When I push the pedal in there is no resistance at all.(so I don't get why the slave pushes the fork)?
The fork moves all the way to the other side of the fork hole a good inch plus of travel.
I can't start the car because the gas tank was removed to be cleaned out.(Bad gas from sitting)

I'll double check on the clutch pedal spring moving and get back to you.

Are you using an after-market slave cylinder?
cause some times they cheep out, and put the smaller spring inside there
see this post here.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dri...aftermarket-clutch-master-slave-cylinder.html
and I did buy a brute power slave cylinder, and it had the right size spring inside.
it worked perfectly, and it's still on my 1g right now, no issues.
autozone and o'rielys slave cylinders all had the small spring inside as I recall using autozones garbage one, I was bleeding forever and when I did get them to work the pedal would really have to be in the floor to engage gears.
and the clutch pedal would not return to the brake pedals height.
that was when I decided to order the brute power one mentioned in the link above.
night and day.

The slave is stock, it has the longer spring.I'm going to pull it apart again today and check it all over and put it all back on the car, might pull the master too because I have a used one kicking around that I could try. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

I see that you are running the stock clutch so its not going to be much resistance at all. However there should be a slight amount.

Without the car running, it will be more difficult to see if you are having disengagement issues. You could put the pump inside a tank with gas just to start it and test it while stationary.

You can pull the rubber boot that is around the Clutch fork and get a look around in there with a flash light. Check to make sure the Clutch Fork is still attached to the Fulcrum ball and that the Fulcrum is still screwed into the Transmission. You can have someone push the pedal and try to look at the pressure plate but I am not sure that you will be able to see much.

For some reason you are lacking the pressure to return the pedal. A clutch that is not properly bleed will act the same way but you state you have bleed it several times. Whether this is a hydraulic issue (Master or Slave) or a mechanical failure inside the bell-housing or Clutch Pedal assembly is hard to tell at this point.

Robert

 

[74runner]

I see that you are running the stock clutch so its not going to be much resistance at all. However there should be a slight amount.

Without the car running, it will be more difficult to see if you are having disengagement issues. You could put the pump inside a tank with gas just to start it and test it while stationary.

You can pull the rubber boot that is around the Clutch fork and get a look around in there with a flash light. Check to make sure the Clutch Fork is still attached to the Fulcrum ball and that the Fulcrum is still screwed into the Transmission. You can have someone push the pedal and try to look at the pressure plate but I am not sure that you will be able to see much.

For some reason you are lacking the pressure to return the pedal. A clutch that is not properly bleed will act the same way but you state you have bleed it several times. Whether this is a hydraulic issue (Master or Slave) or a mechanical failure inside the bell-housing or Clutch Pedal assembly is hard to tell at this point.

I had an extra used slave kicking around and installed it but didn't get any further then before. It could also be a bad part or the slave just isn't the issue....I checked the Master under the dash again and it's still dry.I also checked that the spring under the dash was working and it is and nothing else looks broken or loose.


Robert

I went out again tonight and bled the ever living snot out of it, thinking its very cold out and it might have water in the line/fluid that has frozen.Long story short I managed to get the pedal to pop up half way now on its own. I did install the fuel pump and sender and put it into a bucket of gas to get it running and well I'm not surprised the car will not go into any gears.Tomorrow after work I'll pull the fork boot and have a good look in there.

 

[Turboturd]

When this happened to me I found more than one problem. The first was that air had gotten into the upper line, where it makes several bends that keep it at the same height or above the starting height of the line where it comes out of the master cylinder. It is almost impossible to get that bubble out. With a lot of reverse bleeding we finally got it out, and it looked like nothing, just a few tiny bubbles, but it made a world of difference. I also found at the same time that the clutch pedal assembly was worn out, the pivot point was shot, so the pedal had to be depressed halfway before it contacted and moved the master cylinder rod. This prevented me from getting good pressure on the line, and was why it was so hard to bleed initially. Two things to be aware of, the master cylinder does not necessarily have to leak into the car to be blown, fluid just needs to slip past the inner seal. And the clutch pedal itself is responsible for driving the entire system, so check it for wear

 

[BoostedBeaver]

For some reason, I thought that you had inspected the Pedal assembly already but after further review I see no mention of it. You should check the shaft that runs across the length of the assembly for any play when pressing the clutch pedal.

Robert

 

[74runner]

When this happened to me I found more than one problem. The first was that air had gotten into the upper line, where it makes several bends that keep it at the same height or above the starting height of the line where it comes out of the master cylinder. It is almost impossible to get that bubble out. With a lot of reverse bleeding we finally got it out, and it looked like nothing, just a few tiny bubbles, but it made a world of difference. I also found at the same time that the clutch pedal assembly was worn out, the pivot point was shot, so the pedal had to be depressed halfway before it contacted and moved the master cylinder rod. This prevented me from getting good pressure on the line, and was why it was so hard to bleed initially. Two things to be aware of, the master cylinder does not necessarily have to leak into the car to be blown, fluid just needs to slip past the inner seal. And the clutch pedal itself is responsible for driving the entire system, so check it for wear

I just won a slave cylinder and a Master for $34.00 Heck of a deal!
So for what it cost me I'll just replace both, I'm also going to replace the Hose and short line to the master for the heck of it. The car is clean and I'll be getting my engine parts back from the shop this week so why cheep out at this point . Thank's for the help!

For some reason, I thought that you had inspected the Pedal assembly already but after further review I see no mention of it. You should check the shaft that runs across the length of the assembly for any play when pressing the clutch pedal.

Robert

I'll do that, I had a look up there last night but didn't see any thing wrong.
Would a worn assembly cause the pedal to stick to the floor though?

 

[74runner]

Just a quick update for everyone wanting to know what's up!
It's been warm out so I've been working on the car again.
I got under the dash and confirmed that the clutch cam to the slave rod was loose, I got a 14mm deep socket on the nut, pulled the pedal up as high as I could and tightened that baby up and boom the clutch worked perfectly!
I've now removed the entire assembly and will fix it tomorrow and post repair pic's. Thanks for the help guys.

For anyone with a pedal not returning all the way back up, get your head under the dash and look at the slave rod while you push the clutch pedal in by hand.If the slave rod doesn't move at exactly the same time the clutch pedal does you have a worn pedal assembly "cam"

Part #14 slides onto part # 4 and gets worn out causing play that wont allow the salve cylinders rod to be pushed in all the way and as in my case the pedal won't return all the way back up level with the break pedal.

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I ordered some bronze bushing today and should have them tomorrow, so for now I have to wait for the weekend to finish this up.

 

[74runner]

I took my clutch pedal assembly to a machine shop on Monday and had them repair the cam/shaft I picked it up today and looked it over, It looked perfect,nice tight fit!
I installed it and pressed the clutch pedal down once and the shaft slipped in the cam hole.Not happy at all Although the bronze bushings I had them machine work perfect.

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[nelliott500]

What do you mean by "repair"? And if you went with a bronze bushing, why didn't you have it welded? That's the only reason why you would need to use a bronze bushing. The OEM plastic one is fine if you're not welding it.

It sounds like you didn't buy a rebuild kit. A kit comes with a new clutch pedal lever, new z-bar (or cam as you're calling it), and new plastic bushings. If the pedal assembly is in pretty good shape but the z-bar is just worn out, you can install a bronze bushing and weld the pedal assembly so you (should) never have the problem again.

 

[74runner]

What do you mean by "repair"? And if you went with a bronze bushing, why didn't you have it welded? That's the only reason why you would need to use a bronze bushing. The OEM plastic one is fine if you're not welding it.

It sounds like you didn't buy a rebuild kit. A kit comes with a new clutch pedal lever, new z-bar (or cam as you're calling it), and new plastic bushings. If the pedal assembly is in pretty good shape but the z-bar is just worn out, you can install a bronze bushing and weld the pedal assembly so you (should) never have the problem again.

I've seen the welded repairs and didn't care for it much.My plastic bushing came out fine but I figured no harm in adding the bronze bushings now while its apart plus I'm putting in a heaver clutch so it seemed like a good idea.I had the clutch pedal levers shaft welded and reground at the end because it was worn, the nut came loose and the "cam" twisted the end of the shaft as it slid off. Its funny this car has 120 000kms and the assembly wore out, my 1990 awd tsi has over 300 000 hard kms and I've still never had an issue with it.

I just took the assembly back to the machine shop, as irritated as I was by this I have to admit the work the guy did looked great and he is reworking the part with out any issues. Were going to try and find a serviceable solution to this problem and not just weld it up solid, if were successful I'll post it.