Help! NO Traction, Best size tire for street/Strip

[Eclipse2216]

Alright, Got a 95 FWD Talon, EvoIII turbo, Huge Front mount, 3 in turbo Back, all the Fuel Upgrades, all the basic stuff. Currently have 225/50/16's. I have no traction when I punch it under 40 MPH. I assume I need wider tires, I am leaning towards a 17x8 wheel with a 245/40/17. Any cons with this size. ANYBODY HAVE A BETTER SUGGESTION for tire sizes. I just want something that really grabs the street and strip. All suggestions needed.
I spin through 3rd on the track when I spray the N-ter cooler kit.

 

[PMO]

Is there a company that makes traction bars for your car? The traction bars that are out there work well.

 

[igopoopy]

slicks are what you need

 

[zxdude]

i think a saw a LSD for the FWD not to long ago maybe SBR?

 

[jtmcinder]

Is there a company that makes traction bars for your car? The traction bars that are out there work well.

Please explain how a traction bar would work on a double-wishbone FWD car.

- Jtoby

 

[DSMu4ia]

LSD and suspension + motor mounts are your best bets.

Then some decent tires. Depending on what your driving consists of, I can recommend some tires.

And yes, there are traction bars for FWD cars, none for DSM's tho.

 

[PMO]

Please explain how a traction bar would work on a double-wishbone FWD car.

- Jtoby

We make them for a FWD application:

http://www.precisionmotorsportsonline.com/Bulk_Buys/traction_bars_bbpic_enlarge.jpg

These are not designed for dbl. W/B setups but we can design an application that would work

We are taking the steps to become an authorized DSMtuner vendor. We hope to have a product line available soon.

 

[xxrealmsxx]

Ok hate to sound stupid but exactly how does the fwd traction bars work? I know the exist for hondas and the ilk but i've never quite understood how they work.

Can someone enlighten me? sorry for being a newb

 

[jtmcinder]

These are not designed for dbl. W/B setups but we can design an application that would work.

So, you are going to make a device that prevents the lower front control arm from swinging forward under hard acceleration?

If so, then what a waste! You don't need some funky extra arm for this. You just swap in a stiffer bushing at the inboard end of the compression arm (or go to town with a tube of window weld).

Please keep in mind that FWD 2Gs are not just Hondas with a bit more sex appeal. They don't need the same tweaks to get them to launch. As someone else posted: motor mounts and poly bushings will deal with 99% of the issues raised by people on this board. So there's no need to make these pigs any heavier.

- Jtoby

 

[jtmcinder]

enlighten me? sorry for being a newb

No apologies needed.

One of the big issues when launching hard is wheel hop (in any of its various forms). Wheel hop starts when some of the energy being put out by the engine is used to twist things, usually around soft bushings, instead of move the car forward. The best example is when the engine rolls inside the body.

If all that happened is that some bits twisted on their bushings/mounts (and that's all), then this wouldn't be a big deal. The problem is when that energy is released. Usually what happens is that the twisting bit reaches the end of it's rope (as it were) and sends a shock through the drivetrain (in the form of extra power, because power is no longer being "wasted" twisting things) and this extra power causes a momentary loss of traction. During this momentary loss of traction, all of the stored energy in the twisted bits is suddenly released. Then the tires catch again and the whole process starts over.

To prevent this, you (a) prevent things from twisting and/or (b) make sure that the twisting things don't slam into their limits of twist, because it's the shock that breaks the tires free. Both of these are accomplished by replacing squishy motor mounts and suspension bushings with stiff ones, usually made of urethane, but sometimes something really hard, like Delrin.

Traction bars are related to this. In this case, the twisting is actually the lower front control arms swinging around (parallel to the ground plane) as the front tires try to pull forward. When they reach the end of their possible swing, they bang and break the tires free, and then the cycle starts over ... it's another run-of-the-mill form of tire hop and it's a big issue on Hondas which have front suspensions designed for two-digit levels of torque and drivers that step into their skirts both feet at the same time (i.e., Lisa Kubo).

If you really think that you're having this problem - i.e., you've replaced your motor mounts and main suspension bushings, but you're still having wheel hop - then there's another bushing to replace. It's on the compression arm, which is the curved lower front arm. The inboard end of this arm has a big, squishy rubber bushing. Most people leave it alone, because it provides dynamic front toe changes that really help handling, but it, too, can be stiffened if you are having wheel hop due to the front wheels swinging forward in a car that mostly aimed at drag racing.

- Jtoby

 

[DSMu4ia]

Instead of pressing in ES bushings or prothanes, try spherical bushings into your lower control arms.

 

[jtmcinder]

Instead of pressing in ES bushings or prothanes, try spherical bushings into your lower control arms.

If you mean the compression arms, then, OK, I'd call that overkill, but it will definitely stop the lower front wheels from rotating forward.

If you mean the lower front control arms, then you are exactly wrong. Spherical bearings would remove the little bit of resistance against rotation parallel to the ground plane that the rubber cylindrical bushings provide.

- Jtoby

 

[DSMu4ia]

O wiseman, do it like this:

http://www.wincom.net/trog/a-arm.html

 

[Eclipse2216]

Thanks for all the input, I am now going with a set of 225/40/18's on the street, and a pair of 245/50/16 nitto Drag radials on matching 16x7 wheels for the Track. Of course I will be doing some urethane bushings and motor mounts when I get the extra time to get them in.

I am a really good driver on the track, .10 reaction time and a 2.1 60 ft spinning. on my last trip, ran a 9.10 @ 84.56 MPH, so with some traction I should kill'em out there. My H22a powered Civic hits 9.00 at 81 MPH all day, Will break 8's next trip!! So the Talon should be eating my Civic up with some traction.

 

[jtmcinder]

O wiseman, do it like this:

http://www.wincom.net/trog/a-arm.html

Nice link. Lucky I already know what's on Dennis' site.

The reason that Dennis switched to spherical bushings has zilch to do with wheel hop. Rather, he was making sure that he didn't lose camber in corners.

- Jtoby