Help me upgrade my 20G

[awdtalon4451]

Hey guys I have need some advice on upgrading my Frank 3 20G (T04E54 compressor, TD06 turbine in a TD05h 7cm2 housing). Im getting it rebuilt anyways so nows the time. Im going for 450-500whp on e85, Wiseco HD's 8.5:1 comp, Manley rods, built head with DKS272's . From what i read and if my math is correct it flows around 48/lb min. Although I read another thread claiming 50-52/lb min. Which will more than likely not get me there or be an uphill battle to do so.

Also I should note that currently my power curve dies off around 7200-7300rpm. With it upgraded I'm hoping to get it to 8500rpm. I was seeing full boost (19psi) by 3900rpm before i removed it. I wouldnt mind sacrificing a little spool time to help top end and flow.

The guy thats rebuilding it mentioned doing a KTS or equal 20g billet wheel/TD06h turbine or turning it into a "60-1". The options out there are endless, like 3076R wheel/TD06h, TD06H4, TD06SL2. Honestly,how do you find out which is best suited for you? I really need some opinions about what to do/use and I would really like to hear what you guys think.
Thanks, Jared

 

[JusMX141]

A 3076R wheel isn't much of an improvement over what you had.

60-1 tech is really old but works very well as proven by the old FP Red. It's laggy, guys like Phunny have made over 600hp and run into the mid-10's with a street-driven 2G using that turbo.

If you go that route the largest turbine you can get is a must due to our small 7cm housings. Don't think you can get away with anything smaller than a TD06H turbine on a 60-1 compressor.

 

[awdtalon4451]

A 3076R wheel isn't much of an improvement over what you had.

60-1 tech is really old but works very well as proven by the old FP Red. It's laggy, guys like Phunny have made over 600hp and run into the mid-10's with a street-driven 2G using that turbo.

If you go that route the largest turbine you can get is a must due to our small 7cm housings. Don't think you can get away with anything smaller than a TD06H turbine on a 60-1 compressor.

Thanks Justin, im still new to this side of turbos so im learning. Do you think I can get 450whp out of this turbo or am I going to spend more money than its worth?

 

[JusMX141]

You should theoretically be able to get 450whp out of it as a Frank L3. An L3 is about as close as you can get to an old-school FP Green without actually being a FP Green. Going bigger means it will generate more peak airflow at the expense of some lag.

 

[awdtalon4451]

You should theoretically be able to get 450whp out of it as a Frank L3. An L3 is about as close as you can get to an old-school FP Green without actually being a FP Green. Going bigger means it will generate more peak airflow at the expense of some lag.

Good deal, thanks again for your input Justin. Ive been talking with a few local guys and they seem to think a billet wheel 60-1 (58mm inducer 76mm exducer on a TD06h4 turbine) would suit me well for goals and leave some room for growth. I just wish I understood turbo's and their modifications a little bit more thoroughly .

 

[agentorange313]

Good deal, thanks again for your input Justin. Ive been talking with a few local guys and they seem to think a billet wheel 60-1 (58mm inducer 76mm exducer on a TD06h4 turbine) would suit me well for goals and leave some room for growth. I just wish I understood turbo's and their modifications a little bit more thoroughly .

I am working on that combo right now with an evo 10 hotside (turbine housing), I hope to get rid of that lagginess that is notorious with the 60-1 td06h or old FP red combo.

I am sure the one less turbine blade of the td06h4 wheel will help (although I have not seen any data on this wheel compared to the MHI td06h wheel), and the reduced weight of the billet wheel. The twinscroll of the evo x housing is hopefully my hot ticket to fast spooling tweaked old FP red. In addition is it going to be mated with a 2.3 stroker build.

 

[JusMX141]

I just wish I understood turbo's and their modifications a little bit more thoroughly .

Traditionally, the higher the trim number (less distance between compressor inducer and exducer) the better a compressor will work at higher boost levels. There are some additional factors like blade count and shape, but this is just a general way to tell if a compressor will work well for your application by looking at the specs. Of course in order for a compressor to reach it's potential, it must be paired to a turbine that can handle the airflow without being too large and adding unnecessary lag.

 

[awdtalon4451]

I am working on that combo right now with an evo 10 hotside (turbine housing), I hope to get rid of that lagginess that is notorious with the 60-1 td06h or old FP red combo.

I am sure the one less turbine blade of the td06h4 wheel will help (although I have not seen any data on this wheel compared to the MHI td06h wheel), and the reduced weight of the billet wheel. The twinscroll of the evo x housing is hopefully my hot ticket to fast spooling tweaked old FP red. In addition is it going to be mated with a 2.3 stroker build.

Very nice!! Is the 60-1 that laggy?

Traditionally, the higher the trim number (less distance between compressor inducer and exducer) the better a compressor will work at higher boost levels. There are some additional factors like blade count and shape, but this is just a general way to tell if a compressor will work well for your application by looking at the specs. Of course in order for a compressor to reach it's potential, it must be paired to a turbine that can handle the airflow without being too large and adding unnecessary lag.

Oh I think i see what you mean. So are compressor maps of the housing or the wheel itself?

 

[untouchablecc]

In a t4 housing on a 4cyl yes. t3 can be slower spooling too.

 

[agentorange313]

Very nice!! Is the 60-1 that laggy?

From what I remember the old FP red, not the new garrett wheel "old school red, was a 60-1 wheel with a td06h turbine in a 7cm housing. Might have been clipped, I dont remember, I am sure Justin does.

It would spool fully around 4200-4300 rpm, and it doesnt wake up till after 20 psi really.

Thats why I am hopeing the billet wheel, one less turbine blade, and the twinscroll 12cm evoX housing machined for a td06h4 wheel will be a quick spooling Fp red combo, although I bet the new FP red for the evoX (which are BB) spool faster than this setup would ever.

Maybe I should just fork out the money for the EvoX fp red, although the one I am working with cost me less than half of what the evoX FP red cost to make.

If anyone has data on how much the new wheel actually weighs please post it.
Does anyone know how much the current garrett 60-1 wheel weighs?

 

[JusMX141]

Very nice!! Is the 60-1 that laggy?

Yes. Most old-school FP Red users report full boost around 4500rpms on level ground with a stockish engine (standard compression ratios and displacement). It's a purpose-built race turbo.

 

[awdtalon4451]

Yes. Most old-school FP Red users report full boost around 4500rpms on level ground with a stockish engine (standard compression ratios and displacement). It's a purpose-built race turbo.

Thats not too bad i guess, I was expecting something around that vicinity. Is the 4500rpm spool time on the older 60-1 or is that your projected time on the billet wheel and the TD06H4 turbine?

I wish I would have went with the 9:1 comp but im still hoping the 8.5:1 compression will help bring down the spool time 2-3 hundred rpms. I might talk to BogusSvo about milling the head surface to bump up the compression to 8.8:1 or so.

 

[awdtalon4451]

You already answered that, my apologies