Help me choose a good 20g setup!!!

[kgtalon95]

Okay guys, the 16g was fun but I have become a top end whore I really want to go 20g. First off how much of a difference in lag between the standard tdo5h & the tdo6 wheel?? I've heard some stories of the tdo6 spooling as late as 4500rpms. I'm looking for i guess the best 20g combo to give me good useable power around 3500-4000rpm. Also, those of you that have them care to share any reviews or stories?? I'm planning on getting it and selling my b16g at the end of summer.

Also, I'd like to stick with an internal gate. Good idea??

Anyone have one for sale or knows where I could get one for a good price??

I've heard a ton of good about it and really want that 350whp goal of mine

 

[Steve93Talon]

First off, assuming you have stock cams. Pick up a set of FP2s and stick with the 16g. You might be surprised. Second, a clipped TD05H turbine wheel works well on the 20g, it'll hold 28psi all day long, spools damn fast, and has gone 11.05 on Tort's car. I'd skip the TD06 and go to a TD06H (also known as the Turbotrix "street/strip" turbo) if you want more top end. Let me re-iterate though, stick with the turbo you have and get some cams.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

do a search.. you'll see you have more better options for the price you pay for a 20g..

 

[kgtalon95]

Steve, do you know at what rpm the clipped tdo5h hit full spool? boost level?? The reason i'd like to go bigger and not cams.....something i've been researching now for about three months is that with the 16g you basically have to boost to get going. I'm actually looking for something a LITTLE bigger so I can have some "out of boost" drivability. Because honestly you can try and granny pedal a b16g in the city for better mpg, but with my setup i can't stay out of boost for the life of me!! Oh, and its clipped.

Red turbo: You wanna give me a quick spread on those options?? I'm not a noob and after three hours of searching i didn't get anything good. Maybe my key words bite...who knows

 

[1993eclipseGS]

http://www.bullseye-power.com/index.php?cPath=37

 

[kgtalon95]

The To4b was the first turbo I looked at when they came out, but i'm still wanting a 20g unless someone can give me info on a comparision between the 20g and to4b.
That and guys have been running 10's on 20g's for ten years now and i'd rather go with whats been proven.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

I had it on my previous car, I really liked it. Type in t04b v-trim into the search bar, there is alot of information out about it now, Including dyno numbers now.

 

[Steve93Talon]

with FP2s, the car will behave more like a big turbo car. My friend just went 11.88 @ 117 on a T04B-V trim tonight. He's got a VPC, 550s, 2600, 3", supra pump, street FMIC. Full weight car. I've seen people run very similar numbers on a 20g with stock cams, too. Tort also went 11.02 @ 126.8 tonight on the TD05H-20g with FP2s. Either way you go, it'll have alot of potential.

 

[kgtalon95]

I guess I really should keep looking into cams, I just never heard about any hp gains with a similar setup to mine. I mean $500 for cams for 20whp doesn't sound worth it too me. Not to mention the fact that I don't want to rev higher than factory because then you get into head work and the crappy 1g tranny

But seriously guys how much power would I gain from fp 2's ?? Or any good cam setup? Wat would it do to spool times, top end...blah blah. Would cams be a waste on a b16g??

I know this is a little off topic but you guys have good things to say and numbers to support what your saying Something that tends to be lacking on similar threads!!!

Thanks for the help so far!

 

[johnnytsi]

I'm running a TD06-20G and absolutely love the turbo. It is a truely "fun" street turbo. With my combination of parts I get positive boost at 2800 rpm with full spool to 22psi somewhere in the 3400-3600 range. Careful selection of parts will make the 20G a very streetable turbo.

My Setup:

3" GM MAFT in blow-through
4" FP intake pipe with huge K&N filter
2.5" short route IC pipes
2.5" home built tubular O2 housing with recirculating TiAL 38mm Wastegate
Full 3" Exhaust with no cat.​

This thing spools as fast a my 16G did and pulls WAY harder on top.

My Setup

 

[Steve93Talon]

With a B16G and cams, it'll lose some low end and pick up alot of top end. We made over 350whp on a B16G with 264s at 19psi on pump gas. Another friend of mine recently did FP2s on a B16G, and has just gone 12.1 @ 114 (FWD). You'll make alot more than 20hp with decent tuning.

 

[kgtalon95]

Those are some good times on a b16g

SO is it a must to go with an external wastegate setup on a 20g?? Thats a whole lot of money when coupled with the cost of a new 20g

Maybe I was under the wrong impression about the 20g. I thought that I could just by it and bolt it up...but here comes the big question...external gate or not???



Johnny: Wow glad to see another WA guy on this board!!! You're pretty close too me, I do all my shopping at the Everett action auto parts

 

[Steve93Talon]

Tort's 20g is internally gated and holds 28psi rock solid to redline, and will hold like 17psi without creep. You can also do a sleeper 20g in a TD05H comp. housing, making it more of a bolt-on. Honestly, if I had a B16G I wouldn't bother going to a 20g. The wheel size is practically the same. I'd do the cams now, max the car out, and then go big (like 60-1).

 

[johnnytsi]

Yes, the 20G can be used with an internal gate, however to get it to spool quicker, you definately want to go with an external gate.

I also seem to spend a lot of time at Action Auto Parts, Brian certainly is the "got to" guy for any DSM related questions. In fact my 20G is Brian's old turbo, he gave me a smokin deal on this low mileage turbo.

 

[CanadianTSi]

The 20g is kinda old but atleast the technology in it is alot newer then those V-trim turbo's.

I'd go with a 20g over a tractor turbo...

 

[kgtalon95]

Lol, yeah Brian got my into the dsm's, he's my go to guy & have actually been talking to him alot about my future turbo options. Since he has pretty much run and tested every new turbo that has come out I'm definitely going to do more research into cams. I just went outside and tuned my car. went from stock boost to 17lbs, 17 deg timing, .91 o2. Man the 16g just got a whole lot more fun !

So then I guess my new question would be what cams are good for my setup?? I'd like to not have to replace or upgrade the springs/ retainers.

Thanks for all the help guys!!!! I've been getting a ton of good answers

 

[NewB2dsm]

But seriously guys how much power would I gain from fp 2's ?? Or any good cam setup? Wat would it do to spool times, top end...blah blah. Would cams be a waste on a b16g??

Have you ever taken your car to the track, b/c tuning has ALOT to do with how well a car runs. You cant just slap parts on and expect it to go fast. I would say hold of on your turbo upgrade and max that 16g you have out. I know my comp cams on my small16g made a gain of 35awhp on race gas. Im looking for my 11 second pass on my full weight 2g soon as i can get it back to the track. 25psi and 1.74 60ft it did what it says by my name. I think you would be supirsed what would happen with a nice set of cams and a GOOD tune.

 

[johnnytsi]

I agree on the tuning bit, If I had it all to do over again, one of the FIRST mods I would make is a Wideband O2 gauge.

Between a way to measure knock and the wideband, you can make even a 14b do amazing things.

 

[Steve93Talon]

I agree on the tuning bit, If I had it all to do over again, one of the FIRST mods I would make is a Wideband O2 gauge.

Between a way to measure knock and the wideband, you can make even a 14b do amazing things.

Having just dynoed 289/304 and run 12.53 @ 109.79 on my 14b with 272s, stock IC, 2.5" w/cat, stock MAF, 5 knob AFC, and little else..., i'd have to agree.Wideband kicks ass.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Yes, the 20G can be used with an internal gate, however to get it to spool quicker, you definately want to go with an external gate.

Do you have any clue what you're talking about? If Tort's car spooled any faster, he'd be making boost at idle. WTF

 

[johnnytsi]

hmmm, The original question was:

I've heard some stories of the tdo6 spooling as late as 4500rpms. I'm looking for i guess the best 20g combo to give me good useable power around 3500-4000rpm.

Also, those of you that have them care to share any reviews or stories?? I'm planning on getting it and selling my b16g at the end of summer.

Having progressed from a 14b, through a b16G to my current TD06-20G, I thought that I could contribute some constructive info to help.

The bit of wisdom I'm trying to share is this:

The overall power output and spool characteristics of a turbo, are determined by more than just the turbo itself!

To get the best spool characteristic out of a turbo, you should consider these as well:

It is a well known fact that an external gate will help larger turbo's spool quicker than an internal gate. I went with a TiAL 38 on the O2 housing and a Profec B controlling it. This was a HUGE improvement over the internal gate and manual boost controller.

Intake restriction, the less restriction you have in front of the turbo's intake the better spool characteristics it will have. I went with a 4" intake pipe, converted to GM MAFT in blow through and went with a huge K&N filter. Again, another big improvement.

Exhaust restriction, a complete 3" exhaust system and test pipe again made a noticeable difference in spool over a 2.5" system with the cat.

Turbo porting, a properly ported turbo can also make a big difference in both top end power and how quickly it builds boost.

Intercooler system volume, the total volume of your IC system can make a difference in spool, If you have a choice, go with a short route IC setup. The less volume the turbo has to pressurize, the quicker boost will build.

Engine efficiency, an engine in poor mechanical shape will have an impact on overall spool and power. A fresh engine will definitely have a positive impact on overall performance. If considering a rebuild absolutely go with 8.5:1 compression, and yes, a set of cams can also help, I’m running Crower 64416-2 (equivalent to HKS 264/272)

Tuning, a poorly tuned system will have horrible boost response. Getting your timing and A/F ratios under control can also make a dramatic difference in power and spool up.

I’ve managed to build a TD06-20G based daily driver that performs absolutely great at 22psi using 92 octane pump gas on the street.

Nope, I know absolutely nothing about DSM’s

 

[kgtalon95]

Johnny, so long story short I can still build with my current turbo No but you did give me some good advice. Since everything I have is pretty big, I'm going to focus alot more of my attention on my maintenance before I start to add cams or setup into a bigger turbo. I'm definitely going to look into maf-t, but for 200 bucks it better help me to do more than vent to the atmosphere. I have short route ic piping and a 3" intake so the last obvious restriction is the 2g mass. I'll keep doing the small stuff before i go bigger, I don't want to be that guy that throws on a huge turbo and weeks later is looking for a short block

Thanks for the help guys!!!! Johhny will keep in touch.

I'd also like to know more about your experince with the maft. I have an afc/ pocketlogger setup right now, so tuning with it would be a waste correct??