Help! Car dont wanna make Power...

[Evo-Jr]

Hey guys. After going crazy and spending so much money trying to built this new set up, now the car is not doing what it suppose to do. I dont wanna lip up the car on fire

This is what i have:
2.3 Stroker, Wiseco 9:1 piston,0.20 Manley I beam,Eagle 100mm crankshaft,Kiggle main girdle,ACL bearings, Fluidampr Damper, Bshaft remove,ARP head studs,3 angle valve job,Custom sheet metal intake manifold,SI dual springs and retainers,SI nitride valves,272/264 HKS,T4 tubular manifold, Precision turbo billet wheel 6268,ACT 6 puck,ACT 2900 pressure plate,Fidanza flywheel,AEM wideband,3" downpipe,FIC bluemax 1450,Walbro pump in tank and bosh 044 inline,MAF, DSM link v3 full..

Took the car to get tuned at a shop in PA, the guys at the shop work all day trying to figured out the problem.. The car only made 433 and 343 torque.. For some reason the car wasnt making boost, only about 23psi on C16.. They though it was the wastegate or the boost controller, they swap both with parts from the shop and nothing. After swapping the parts they gaved it another try and then they said the clutch was slipping which it cant be possible because is brand new, then they said it might be the cams or that my turbo is holding back! 6262sp journal bearing T4 .68 v-band...

Really dont know what to do at this point I dont wanna go and spend money that i dont really have on parts that i might not need.. Can someone please help out on this one, im clueless

Please guys, very confused....

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Thanks bro... I really apreciate every one of you guys, it has been really helpfull to me... Better then ecmlink forum, they dont answer for sh$t.. Having a lil problem with the car breaking up and those guys dont help for noting, i think is time for AEM.. Tired of ecmlink, i cant even find nobody to tune here in new york

I saw your post on there and where no one was helping. Don't worry they did the same thing to my post. I think only 3 people even viewed my log and no one replied even once...and I bumped my post at least 6 times .

 

[Evo-Jr]

I saw your post on there and where no one was helping. Don't worry they did the same thing to my post. I think only 3 people even viewed my log and no one replied even once...and I bumped my post at least 6 times .

Yea that sucks, I think is time for haltech or AEM.. F ecmlink, no help

 

[gofer]

Did you ever pull apart your wastegate and verify what spring was in there?

I saw your shopping for new cams/valve springs to fix this issue, just making sure you verified everything before throwing more money at it for no reason.

 

[Evo-Jr]

Did you ever pull apart your wastegate and verify what spring was in there?

I saw your shopping for new cams/valve springs to fix this issue, just making sure you verified everything before throwing more money at it for no reason.

No I didn't, but while I was on the dyno. The guys there let me tried a tial 44mm and still had the same problem.. Now the car only making 7-9 psi, even tried with the hoses off and noting.. Also changed the boost controller

 

[gofer]

...its the wastegate, to light of spring pressure the gate will blow open and limit your maximum amount of boost. Thats great (and nice) that the shop installed their own Tial to test things however, whats to say they didn't have a light spring in the one they installed, too?

Thinking outside the box a bit, whats your exhaust setup look like? More specifically, do you have a catalytic converter or a flex section anywhere in the system? Sometimes a flex section or catalytic converter will collapse and limit the amount of boost you can run.

This is what a collapsed flex section would look like...

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[Evo-Jr]

...its the wastegate, to light of spring pressure the gate will blow open and limit your maximum amount of boost. Thats great (and nice) that the shop installed their own Tial to test things however, whats to say they didn't have a light spring in the one they installed, too?

Thinking outside the box a bit, whats your exhaust setup look like? More specifically, do you have a catalytic converter or a flex section anywhere in the system? Sometimes a flex section or catalytic converter will collapse and limit the amount of boost you can run.

This is what a collapsed flex section would look like...

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It was a brand new wastegate, the reason why they installed was because I was gonna buy it if that fix the problem.. I have full 3" all the back with a flex on it, but I check the flex n it was good! I even check the hot side of the turbo cus they thou it was mess up.. Is a brand new turbo and has no play at all

 

[gofer]

Its irrelevant that the Tial they let you borrow to troubleshoot was brand new, if the spring pressure is too low it will blow open and limit your boost. Unless you know for sure, meaning you/they opened up the Tial and verified the spring inside, then you need to pull the wastegate and pop the top off and check the spring.

You're willing to spend $800 on cams and valve springs (then how much time in labor to install it) without pulling the wastegate and verifying everything's working? I'm not trying to argue with you, its your money. But I'm going to hate saying "I told you so" after you spend the money and invest the time to upgrade those cams and you still can't build boost.

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

It was a brand new wastegate, the reason why they installed was because I was gonna buy it if that fix the problem.. I have full 3" all the back with a flex on it, but I check the flex n it was good! I even check the hot side of the turbo cus they thou it was mess up.. Is a brand new turbo and has no play at all

your missing the point. if your boost goes down as low as 7 psi, then your wastegate has a 7 psi spring inside it, and thats not a stiff enough spring to make the boost levels your looking for. you can buy a variety of different pressure springs for a tial wastegate, you need to buy a stiffer one for higher boost, open your wastegate up, and install it.

you can try as many new wastegates as you want, if the shop orders them new with 7 psi springs they are all going to have the same problem.

 

[Evo-Jr]

Its irrelevant that the Tial they let you borrow to troubleshoot was brand new, if the spring pressure is too low it will blow open and limit your boost. Unless you know for sure, meaning you/they opened up the Tial and verified the spring inside, then you need to pull the wastegate and pop the top off and check the spring.

You're willing to spend $800 on cams and valve springs (then how much time in labor to install it) without pulling the wastegate and verifying everything's working? I'm not trying to argue with you, its your money. But I'm going to hate saying "I told you so" after you spend the money and invest the time to upgrade those cams and you still can't build boost.

I understand what u saying, n trust me I don't have money like that to spend on cams.. That's y I wanna hear from you guys n help me out through the process.. I'm trying to borrow a wastegate n try it before buying the cams

your missing the point. if your boost goes down as low as 7 psi, then your wastegate has a 7 psi spring inside it, and thats not a stiff enough spring to make the boost levels your looking for. you can buy a variety of different pressure springs for a tial wastegate, you need to buy a stiffer one for higher boost, open your wastegate up, and install it.

you can try as many new wastegates as you want, if the shop orders them new with 7 psi springs they are all going to have the same problem.

When they tried the tial, it only went to 23psi.. Same psi I was doing with the old wastegate.. That's y they told me that it has to be the cams cus of the way the dyno graph looked! It makes power from the beginning but around 7000rpm it goes dead

 

[hypergenesis]

I understand what u saying, n trust me I don't have money like that to spend on cams.. That's y I wanna hear from you guys n help me out through the process.. I'm trying to borrow a wastegate n try it before buying the cams



When they tried the tial, it only went to 23psi.. Same psi I was doing with the old wastegate.. That's y they told me that it has to be the cams cus of the way the dyno graph looked! It makes power from the beginning but around 7000rpm it goes dead

You seem to be missing the point it doesn't matter how new a wastegate is , if the spring inside of it only has a set amount of resistance then its going to stay open limiting the boost you make due to the fact that its releasing all the boost you could be building.

YOU dont need to borrow a wastegate, you need to see the spring rate of the spring INSIDE OF THE wastegate.

About 4 people have mentioned the spring and you keep returning to talk about the wastegate. Yes they are 2 things that correlate between each other but no one is saying either waste gate is faulty or bad. Everyone is saying that the spring inside of it is not stiff enough for the amount of boost you are running.

 

[Evo-Jr]

You seem to be missing the point it doesn't matter how new a wastegate is , if the spring inside of it only has a set amount of resistance then its going to stay open limiting the boost you make due to the fact that its releasing all the boost you could be building.

YOU dont need to borrow a wastegate, you need to see the spring rate of the spring INSIDE OF THE wastegate.

About 4 people have mentioned the spring and you keep returning to talk about the wastegate. Yes they are 2 things that correlate between each other but no one is saying either waste gate is faulty or bad. Everyone is saying that the spring inside of it is not stiff enough for the amount of boost you are running.

I know what u saying, but I have a delta gate wastegate and I can't find springs for it.. So I guess I rather buy a tial wastegate for now instead of cams n springs! So which spring should I order when I perchase the wastegate?

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Everyone suggested that My problem was the wg/spring also. I tried different tail 44mm wg's and mine has 2 Springs in it allowing me to run 40ish psi. I still havnt figured Out My problem and i put in new cams and Springs already.

 

[gofer]

It depends on which Tial you're looking at getting, follow the link then pick the spring. Personally, I'd recommend a 1.2 bar (17.5psi) spring combination which will be the LOWEST amount of boost you can run however, you'll be able to turn up the boost and expect rock solid boost control up to 35psi.

Tial Sport Wastegates & Spring Pressures

 

[Evo-Jr]

It depends on which Tial you're looking at getting, follow the link then pick the spring. Personally, I'd recommend a 1.2 bar (17.5psi) spring combination which will be the LOWEST amount of boost you can run however, you'll be able to turn up the boost and expect rock solid boost control up to 35psi.

Tial Sport Wastegates & Spring Pressures

It has to be a 44mm since my manifold has the vband for it

 

[gofer]

It has to be a 44mm since my manifold has the vband for it

Tial no longer makes the V44 (v-band 44mm) wastegate, they replaced it with the MV-R which is what you'll need then.

Here's the table for the MV-R spring combo's relative to minimum boost pressure, remember you don't want to more than double minimum boost for the spring setup. So, if you get the 14.5psi spring setup you don't want to run more than roughly 30psi.

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ExtremePSi: TIAL MV-R WASTEGATE: 44MM V-BAND

 

[ShizzySupra]

Strongly encourage you to follow Gofer's advice. It's the cheapest alternative to diagnose your issues.

 

[Evo-Jr]

Tial no longer makes the V44 (v-band 44mm) wastegate, they replaced it with the MV-R which is what you'll need then.

Here's the table for the MV-R spring combo's relative to minimum boost pressure, remember you don't want to more than double minimum boost for the spring setup. So, if you get the 14.5psi spring setup you don't want to run more than roughly 30psi.

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ExtremePSi: TIAL MV-R WASTEGATE: 44MM V-BAND

So I have to change the flange on my manifold? Is made to fit the the 44mm vband wastegate! I'm gonna get the 1.2 bar.. Should I get a bigger one just in case?

 

[gofer]

No, the MV-R is a 44mm wastegate that replaced the V44 that Tial used to make. Its a completely re-engineered design and 10x better than the V44, the overall size of the wastegate is amazing compared to the old V44.

That depends on the max boost you want to run and the minimum amount of boost you'll want to tune for running pump gas. You could probably get away with running the 1.4bar (20psi) spring combo, that way you'll have solid boost control to 40psi yet keep boost low enough for a reliable pump gas tune.

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[Evo-Jr]

Strongly encourage you to follow Gofer's advice. It's the cheapest alternative to diagnose your issues.

I'm defenetly doing that, going to shop around for the best deal when I get home.. Don't know if I mentioned before, but when I first drove the car way before it was tuned. I had boosted around 30psi, so I got scared and I turned the boost down, that was with the delta gate wastegate.. After that the car never boosted like that ever again so I thou it was the boost controller went bad so I got a new one and still had the same problem..

I don't know too much on how it works, but I was even told to disconnect the hoses from wastegate n that the boost should go up but it never did..

 

[gofer]

I'm defenetly doing that, going to shop around for the best deal when I get home.. Don't know if I mentioned before, but when I first drove the car way before it was tuned. I had boosted around 30psi, so I got scared and I turned the boost down, that was with the delta gate wastegate.. After that the car never boosted like that ever again so I thou it was the boost controller went bad so I got a new one and still had the same problem..

I don't know too much on how it works, but I was even told to disconnect the hoses from wastegate n that the boost should go up but it never did..

I've never heard good things about the Delta gates, is that an OBX Racing brand?

It sounds like the wastegate is blowing open, not allowing you to build boost. The next thing on your list of parts, after you fix this boost control issue, is definitely a different set of cams. Not yet though, you need to fix this first.

 

[Evo-Jr]

No, the MV-R is a 44mm wastegate that replaced the V44 that Tial used to make. Its a completely re-engineered design and 10x better than the V44, the overall size of the wastegate is amazing compared to the old V44.

That depends on the max boost you want to run and the minimum amount of boost you'll want to tune for running pump gas. You could probably get away with running the 1.4bar (20psi) spring combo, that way you'll have solid boost control to 40psi yet keep boost low enough for a reliable pump gas tune.

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Ok cool.. I'm defenetly going to order one today from where ever I get a good price... I really apreciate ## help, I could say that is the first time I get good n solid info from the guys on here.. Thanks a million time to all you guys

I was also thinking on either changing to AEM cus it seems like dsmlink is not helping me, and is hard to find a tuner here in ny that know how to deal with that system.. Or taking of the maf and going with Map sensor

 

[gofer]

To be 110% certain that the MV-R will work with that Turbonetics Deltagate 44mm flange I recommend contacting Tial and tell them what you plan on doing. If you find that it won't meet up you may consider keeping the Turbonetics wastegate you've already got and then contact Turbonetics about getting upgraded springs so you can effectively increase boost.

I'm 99% certain the MV-R will mate right up since you said the shop you were dyno'ing the car at installed a Tial, you should call and be sure though. No sense spending money just to find out you have to spend even MORE money to make the part work.

 

[Evo-Jr]

To be 110% certain that the MV-R will work with that Turbonetics Deltagate 44mm flange I recommend contacting Tial and tell them what you plan on doing. If you find that it won't meet up you may consider keeping the Turbonetics wastegate you've already got and then contact Turbonetics about getting upgraded springs so you can effectively increase boost.

I'm 99% certain the MV-R will mate right up since you said the shop you were dyno'ing the car at installed a Tial, you should call and be sure though. No sense spending money just to find out you have to spend even MORE money to make the part work.

By looking at the picture, it looks like the one they use.. So I'm sure it would work

 

[blackrosenova40]

Is this all happpening with a stock 1g maf?

Well, today had a chance to do a leak down and boost leak test.. Leak down was good but while doing the boost leak we noticed that it was leak by the MAF sensor, i opened it up and put some silicone in there.. Dont know if it would seal but i think im gonna removed the maf and go with the map sensor instead, lot of people are telling me to take out that crappy maf out of there... But the car is breaking up between 2500 and 3000 rpm, dont know why is doing that tho.. Would anybody know why this is happening?

 

[Evo-Jr]

Yes. A 3" 1g maf, I been told a few times to take it cus is old fashion so I'm gonna try the SD set up ecmlink has.. I know there is a few guys on here making well over 600hp with it