2G Head build & T28/HELP

[DevineAstral]

Hey folks.! Bought my 97’ GS-T spyder afew months ago. Was having an issue with 3/4 or WOT with the car having no “get up” even though it had full boost. (Car is completely stock.) so thought it might have been the BPV, so I changed the stock out for a turboxs one. Still had an issue with no power. Did a compression test and #3 and #4 were about 30psi lower than 1 and 2, so was in the process of taking the head off to change the HG. Long story short, broke one of the studs for the engine mount to tranny plate.(manual transmission. Already have the part on hand now.) while I’ve been waiting to find the plate, I’ve been considering building my head and swapping the T25 for a T28. Heads been pressure checked and checked for warpage and it’s still good. I’ve done my homework and below are a list of parts I wanna get for the build.
-GSC power zero tick lifters
-BC 268/272 cam shaft + BC springs and retainers combo
-ACL bigger oil pump
-Gated water pump
-STM balance shaft eliminator
-Mishimoto thermostat
-precision 580 ball type injectiors
-Wally 190 fuel pump.(or should I just go the 225 since it’s the same price.?)

I already have all the belts and gaskets to finish the job aside from the water pump and oil pump gaskets.

Here are my questions.(either due to grey areas of understanding and me not able to find an exact answer, or me just failing to understand what was said and need further clarity.)
#1: what other components do I need to finish my head build and/or how many will I need for particular items.(IE:valve guides/keepers/seals, and valves, do I NEED to replace these or will stock work with the cams.? What sort of cam gears should I look into and should I keep them at stock measurements or do I need to advance/retard the cams because of the build.?)
#2 am I going to require a tune for both BEFORE I eventually get a T28 on.(since it’ll be a while, maybe a year or two, before I get one.) and will I need a tune AFTER I get the T28 on.? I’ve read posts about no one needing a tune with just the turbo swap but nothing about turbo + head build.
#3 am I able to do the balance shaft delete with the engine still in the car, while I’m doing the oil pump swap.? Or do I have to take the engine out in order to do it.(because I have no way of pulling the motor or even a stand to put it on.)

as I stated before, I’m only asking these because I A, didn’t get the right answer before, or just didn’t understand the context of what was described and I’ve researched for countless hours on multiple sites to the point that the words merge together. Thanks in advance people.! I appreciate any and all help.! I’m still fairly new the game and was always a “bolt on” guy and beginning the steps to dig deeper into the tuning world. Thanks.!

 

[Evolving_sti]

Just my experience if your putting a bigger turbo it should be tuned. Do people just slap it on and go? Yes. But is it the right way to do things ? I wouldn't think so

 

[AWD-Tony]

Kiggly hla and go with a 255. Yes you want it tuned after all that.

 

[randman2011]

#1. You should replace guides and seals if you pull the valves. The stock valves are good and likely don't need to be replaced/upgraded but now is certainly the time to do so. Brand/type of cam gear doesn't really matter as long as they are adjustable. With most cams you'll be just fine running them at the stock angle but there are gains to be had by adjusting timing, and you just have to play with it once the engine is running.

#2. You're going to want a tune for any one of these changes. Cams or a turbo or injectors all require a tuning solution of some kind. I ran a T28 (stock head) with no tune for a few months while I waited for ECMLink to fill my order and the difference once I got the new ECU installed was immense. If you're not going to bother with a tune, why even bother paying for upgrades that you can't take advantage of?

#3. You can. I've done it. The lower shaft has to come out with the oil pump anyway, but the upper one is the hard one. You have to remove three of the engine/transmission mounts, loosen the lower crossmember, and then drop the engine as far as you can get it. In one of my previous cars it just didn't work, and with the upper trans mount connected, the far end of the transmission was pushing against the frame rail preventing the engine from going lower and there still wasn't enough room. I ended up pulling the shaft out halfway, cutting it in half, and then pulling the second half out. But on my current DSM it came out in one piece without issue.

I guess it depends on what your goals are, but those cams are WAY too big for a T28. Even the stock cams aren't being pushed by a T28. On a completely stock head you'll have full boost before 3000RPM and be running out of steam at 6000. The T28 is an okay turbo; I had one for two years, but it's designed for a similar to stock boost response curve at higher pressure ratios, and by adding cams you won't be able to supply higher pressure ratios without running out of compressor flow. My recommendation would be to either go with the T28 and keep the stock cams (you can still build the rest of the head and replace cams later if you want) OR go with those cams and pick a much larger turbo, like a 20g variant or GT30x, etc. But it sounds to me like you're not interested in going that far just yet. For reference, I now have an EVO III 16g and I'm still not limited by head flow at all.

Yes, go 255 lph and AFPR to control it. Upgrade to EV14 style injectors. They're a huge improvement over the EV1 style that came in our cars. You can get adapter harnesses or you can just splice the (USCAR?) connector into the factory harness as I did for a factory fitment, and ditch the resistor box on the firewall. You may never need the capacity, but why stop at 580? Especially in HighZ, the prices aren't linear with capacity and a small increase in price gives a big jump in throughput. I ended up with 950cc Deatschwerks EV14 injectors on my GSX after my RC650s ran out of capacity and am very happy with them. Yes, my stock head outflowed 650cc injectors and I wasn't even pushing it.

Also I'd argue that the high capacity oil pump would be a waste of money for you. With the balance shafts deleted, you'll have more oil restriction (and therefore less flow) than stock. That flow becomes necessary on race engines where bearing clearances are large and you need the extra capacity as insurance, but on a stock engine you might actually have trouble with oil pressure being too high. Even people with stock pumps have reported having trouble getting oil pressure low enough after removing the balance shafts. If your stock oil pump is fine, I'd reuse it.

I should mention that the HTA68 v1 is $800 from Forced Performance right now. There is no reason to buy any other turbo. With the smaller 16g turbine housing it will match the spool of the 16gs but still put out 49 lb/min.

 

[Evolving_sti]

OP, ill keep you posted . I'm getting tuned next week with a t28 and BC stage 2 cams. I was previously tuned on the t25 and that thing runs out of steam on the top end. Here's my graph. That was on a small 60mm hks exhauast and stock exhaust manifold. I now have a full 3in with FP manifold. You can see the loss of tq gets significant . I'll share and you can have some sort of idea if the cams are worth it for your setup. I also added the brian Crower cam gears.

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[DevineAstral]

Thanks for the input peeps. I honestly had no idea that the cams would make that much of a difference, but that’s what I’m here for, Is to learn and get advice. I don’t really have anyone around me that know anything about imports.(V8’s, yes, plenty, but no one knows anything about 4 bangers around me from what I understand.)

Thank you for pointing out the bigger oil pump issue as well. Now I understand from what someone mentioned in one of the forms I read. Is it possible I could just pull the balance shaft from the rear while doing the oil pump and just leave the other shaft in there until the next time I do a timing belt.?(I should have access to a garage by that time. I’m mainly doing this all in the front yard with pretty much basic tools.)

I do plan to eventually get the tunes done the first chance I got (after injectors and the turbo swap.) once I got a link put in and find a place to get it tuned.(pretty sure the closest place is in Pittsburgh which is a good 2 1/2-3 hours away. So I’d need to find a car hauler and all that plus the cost for the tune.) I just wanted to be sure that there wouldn’t be any issues with the car running or chance of detonation or something catastrophic. Just wanted to know if it would be driveable for normal trips and maybe the occasional pull every now and then.

I appreciate all the help guys. I’m honestly just looking for a decent streetable setup. Not looking for big numbers or major gains or anything like that. I just want something with a little bit more “omph” for the hills, dips and back roads around where I live. I’ve driven my (stock) 96’ GS around here for 8+ years now and familiar with the FF dynamics and don’t need a whole lot more power in the spyder to be able to drive it the way I’m looking for.

 

[randman2011]

Is it possible I could just pull the balance shaft from the rear while doing the oil pump and just leave the other shaft in there until the next time I do a timing belt.?(I should have access to a garage by that time. I’m mainly doing this all in the front yard with pretty much basic tools.)

I mean you can, but you'll already be that far with the timing belt off to do the oil pump (you are replacing all of the timing belt components, aren't you?). You can leave the upper balance shaft in, and I did that in my GS-T Spyder, but you may as well try to pull it out. If you can get it out, good. Now you don't have to take the front case off again. If not, leave it in and don't worry about it. But do put the drive gear back on it.

So I’d need to find a car hauler and all that plus the cost for the tune.) I just wanted to be sure that there wouldn’t be any issues with the car running or chance of detonation or something catastrophic. Just wanted to know if it would be driveable for normal trips and maybe the occasional pull every now and then.

As long as you don't go turning up the boost as soon as you get the turbo in, you're not going to be putting the car in a dangerous position by driving it before the tune. You will have the ability to configure the injectors and adjust MafComp yourself and the factory fuel map is hilariously rich anyway, so it will be fine. Honestly I wouldn't have any concerns driving the car to Pittsburgh after just the turbo swap and supporting mods. Just don't do any street racing on the way there.

I appreciate all the help guys. I’m honestly just looking for a decent streetable setup. Not looking for big numbers or major gains or anything like that. I just want something with a little bit more “omph” for the hills, dips and back roads around where I live. I’ve driven my (stock) 96’ GS around here for 8+ years now and familiar with the FF dynamics and don’t need a whole lot more power in the spyder to be able to drive it the way I’m looking for.

The T28 will give you the same torque curve as factory but just a little higher. It probably fits what you have in mind pretty well, but it never felt like much of an upgrade over stock to me and I was ready for something bigger after two weeks. This is in contrast to my 16g which is hilarious fun. I'm way happier with my 16g than I ever was with any of my Garrett turbos. And besides, it's the stock turbo on the EVOs. You do need an install kit for any MHI turbo in a 2g, but the E3 16g is $125 cheaper than a T28 at ExtremePSI right now so the total price difference is small. And then the V1 HTA68 is only $75 more than a standard 16g (and $50 cheaper than a T28, am I really seeing that correctly?) so that is my suggestion. It's certainly more turbo than you're looking for right now but with the hot side from the 16g you're not losing out on anything in terms of response and drivability in exchange for the extra overhead. And then when you start looking for more (which you will, don't kid yourself) your turbo will already be sorted. That's also why I recommend injectors larger than 580cc.

Also since I'm ranting anyway. I don't know how familiar you are with turbos, but a larger, less restrictive turbo will make the same power with less boost and is both safer and more reliable than a smaller turbo at higher boost. And you'll get a noticeable fuel economy boost assuming that you can keep yourself from flooring it all the time. For example, swapping out the RHB31 for an HT07-4A in my Autozam doubled engine's output AND got me past the 50 mpg mark. There are two schools of thought when it comes to sizing turbos. You can pick the smallest one that will get you to your power goals, or you can pick the largest one that meets your driveability criteria. I'm personally in the latter camp, but it all comes down to what you want.

 

[93xsg]

Did you ever determine why you were losing compression? Hopefully the bottom end checks out. One thing I've learned, is if you already have the head off, double check the bottom end! I did a head gasket/head job 2 times on my truck once. Fixed small issues both times, but neglected to check the bottom end, which was the main issue! It required a full rebuild. Just my 2 cents.

I don't think you'll see to much benefit from cams, cam gears, built head etc until you start flowing more air.

If it was me, I'd make sure everything is proper and working, and get the car running right. Then invest in things like ECMLink, Wideband o2, fuel system, turbo, intake and exhaust.

But by all means, if you have the time and money, and its already out, build it up!

 

[DevineAstral]

Did you ever determine why you were losing compression? Hopefully the bottom end checks out. One thing I've learned, is if you already have the head off, double check the bottom end! I did a head gasket/head job 2 times on my truck once. Fixed small issues both times, but neglected to check the bottom end, which was the main issue! It required a full rebuild. Just my 2 cents.

I don't think you'll see to much benefit from cams, cam gears, built head etc until you start flowing more air.

If it was me, I'd make sure everything is proper and working, and get the car running right. Then invest in things like ECMLink, Wideband o2, fuel system, turbo, intake and exhaust.

But by all means, if you have the time and money, and its already out, build it up!

Yeah, it was the head gasket that was bad. There was a tear in it when I pulled the head as well as this discoloration (I assume from the exhaust or being burnt in general.) between the two walls as well as one of the coolant jacket ports.(also knew it was a HG because it pushed air to the coolant tank after shutdown.) and I do appreciate the help.!

 

[DevineAstral]

Okay guys, just an update but also afew more questions, since I’m going to stick with the OEM cams, and probably won’t see a new turbo or DSMlink for afew more years, should I still upgrade the valvetrain (BC valves, single springs, retainers, guides, seals and such with a set of topline zero tick lifters (GSC is out of stock.:/.) now and put the head back on or should I just save my money and get the car running.? Another thing I saw is that the ACL pump costs just as much as an OEM pump, and since I won’t be doing a Balance shaft delete for a while either, will I have any issues with it.? I thinking I should just get the car running and find another 4g63 and build that up over the years and then drop it right in. I guess my main question is wether to do valvetrain now and just use that head on the built motor or just save my money and button the car up as is.?

 

[Evolving_sti]

Take it from me and do all the mods your planning on as long as you have a competent tuner. If you look at my previous post I made 211 whp. I did all the mods you wanted t28 turbo Brian crower cams. I jumped from 211whp to 320 whp. The car is a complete different machine. Same dyno , same tuner. He put my before and after graphs on top of eachother. You can see from the graph on the t28 and Brian crower cams I was still making power after 6k. Think someone here said it would run out of steam

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[pauleyman]

I see the same problem I've seen for the last 25 years. You have made a list of parts instead of the plan for the car. Tell us what you want the car to do then we can help.
https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/project-management-and-building-a-dsm.421705/
If budget allows and you will need different valvetrain in the future then yes go ahead. What you shouldn't do is add a mod if you don't know why you're adding it. I've seen way too many people asking about half inch head studs on a 16g car. Huge cams. Forged xyz etc. Its very difficult to answer anything unless we know what the plan is. My advice is make a plan first. Then build a car.

 

[DevineAstral]

Take it from me and do all the mods your planning on as long as you have a competent tuner. If you look at my previous post I made 211 whp. I did all the mods you wanted t28 turbo Brian crower cams. I jumped from 211whp to 320 whp. The car is a complete different machine. Same dyno , same tuner. He put my before and after graphs on top of eachother. You can see from the graph on the t28 and Brian crower cams I was still making power after 6k. Think someone here said it would run out of steam

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awesome man! and i'm probably gonna go ahead and do a bigger turbo when the time comes for it. i just want to be sure if i'm able to upgrade the valvetrain now or if i should just do that on a new build and just get my car together the way as is.(Stock).

 

[DevineAstral]

I see the same problem I've seen for the last 25 years. You have made a list of parts instead of the plan for the car. Tell us what you want the car to do then we can help.
https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/project-management-and-building-a-dsm.421705/
If budget allows and you will need different valvetrain in the future then yes go ahead. What you shouldn't do is add a mod if you don't know why you're adding it. I've seen way too many people asking about half inch head studs on a 16g car. Huge cams. Forged xyz etc. Its very difficult to answer anything unless we know what the plan is. My advice is make a plan first. Then build a car.

thanks for the advice bud. as i stated before, i dont really need a HUGE amount more HP or anything. i'm not looking for anything more than maybe a 300hp setup. it being a fwd, it'd be pointless to have more than that. I just want to make daily driving the mountains/hills and turns a little bit more bearable and fun. (IE:going up hills in my 420a always wanting more acceleration but cant because of obvious reasons.) in all honesty, i was just looking for a way to make decent power without having to buy a DSMlink.(because i'm not going to be racing it or anything.)

 

[pauleyman]

Now we're getting somewhere. Make a list of exactly what you want the car to do. Try to be objective. 300hp. Reasonable. Possibly arbitrary but that's OK too. We will help you figure out what to do. Some mods are easier to live with. Some aren't. Most have a degree of subjectivity too. Meaning one guy may love his new stiff shocks as the cars handling is improved. The next guy may hate them because the ride is harsh. Only you can decide what is right for you within the goals of your project.

 

[pauleyman]

BTW 300hp?? My opinion is leave the valvetrain alone. Spend the money elsewhere.

 

[DevineAstral]

Now we're getting somewhere. Make a list of exactly what you want the car to do. Try to be objective. 300hp. Reasonable. Possibly arbitrary but that's OK too. We will help you figure out what to do. Some mods are easier to live with. Some aren't. Most have a degree of subjectivity too. Meaning one guy may love his new stiff shocks as the cars handling is improved. The next guy may hate them because the ride is harsh. Only you can decide what is right for you within the goals of your project.

Thanks bud. i really do appreciate it.! and around the 300hp-350hp range i guess i should say. that's not necessarily to the wheels, either. i will figure out the suspension later because i'm in general happy and comfortable with the way the car handles as is. (its more/less decent stock, because i live in PA and they tend to not take care of the cracks/bumps/potholes on the road so i cant really have anything stiffer suspension wise. i'm sure if i got a set of strut bars i'll be more than happy.)

BTW 300hp?? My opinion is leave the valvetrain alone. Spend the money elsewhere.

i'm very happy to hear your advice about the valvetrain as well. Thank you for the help and being very informative. would you mind if i ever sent you a private message if i have(think of) any further questions or concerns? Not necessarily about this topic,but about anything in general? i figured i would ask in advance just to be sure you were okay with it.

 

[pauleyman]

Please keep your questions out in the open as much as possible. My main point is that you need a plan and objective statements about things. I've seen so many people install something and hate it because they didn't understand how stuff works and why.

 

[JusMX141]

I’ve been considering building my head and swapping the T25 for a T28.

You won't need a built head for any power goal under 400whp or so. It ultimately depends on engine RPM and cam selection.

-GSC power zero tick lifters

Unless you have a lifter currently making noise and don't know which one it is, there's no reason to replace the lifters. Don't buy into the "no tick" gimmick, either- I have big-bore lifters in the car I drive daily and they're intermittently more-noisy than the stock lifters were...and I've done the oil port mod on the head. Better to leave the stock lifters in place and keep more oil in the pan.

-BC 268/272 cam shaft + BC springs and retainers combo

Comp 101200's/FP2's and stock springs are fine if you absolutely need cams...but again, for modest power goals cams are completely unnecessary.

-ACL bigger oil pump

Don't do this. The stock pump is fine.

-STM balance shaft eliminator

OEM stub shaft if you're eliminating the balance shafts. Don't buy into the necessity of a race shaft.

-Mishimoto thermostat

Stant 13868 for $4 is all I've ever run in a 2G...they work just fine.

-precision 580 ball type injectiors

Buy the largest injectors your tuning platform can support and safely tune at idle. Obviously a +/- 400hp car doesn't need 1600cc injectors, but a set of 750's or 850's wouldn't be a bad idea as opposed to 580's which are barely bigger than stock.

-Wally 190 fuel pump.(or should I just go the 225 since it’s the same price.?)

190 if you don't want to get an adjustable pressure regulator; 255 if you don't mind spending the funds on the regulator. With the money I've saved you from wasting on unnecessary crap thus far you should have plenty left over for a nice adjustable regulator setup.

#1: what other components do I need to finish my head build and/or how many will I need for particular items.(IE:valve guides/keepers/seals, and valves, do I NEED to replace these or will stock work with the cams.?

The machine shop doing the work will hopefully be competent enough to know when guides are worn and need replaced and can recommend replacement if necessary. Seals, obviously...but the rest of the hardware will be fine to re-use.

What sort of cam gears should I look into and should I keep them at stock measurements or do I need to advance/retard the cams because of the build.?)

If you buy a quality cam you won't need adjustable gears.

#2 am I going to require a tune for both BEFORE I eventually get a T28 on.(since it’ll be a while, maybe a year or two, before I get one.) and will I need a tune AFTER I get the T28 on.? I’ve read posts about no one needing a tune with just the turbo swap but nothing about turbo + head build.

Tuning corrects for fuel and air consumption modifications. If you change a part of the fuel system directly related to engine management (like injectors), you'll need to re-tune. Same goes for cams, which alter how much air enters the engine during a combustion cycle and when.

#3 am I able to do the balance shaft delete with the engine still in the car, while I’m doing the oil pump swap.? Or do I have to take the engine out in order to do it.(because I have no way of pulling the motor or even a stand to put it on.)

I've always done balance shaft elimination with the engine on a stand. A friend of mine did it once with the engine in the car and said it was horrible, and he'd never do it that way again so I took his advice.

Another bit of advice- the T28 is only really a desirable turbo for someone demanding a 100% stock-fitment turbo upgrade for a 2G. Compared to the TD05H units, the T2 turbos are at the end of their rope for wheel sizes and efficiency so durability suffers compared to the larger TD05H turbos when used and abused. The T28 also doesn't favor most short-route FMIC setups as the outlet faces the passenger's side of the car like the stock T25. Rather than choosing a T28 which has a compressor map that ends around 22-23psi and beating the piss out of it to get to your power goal, you're better-off going with the MHI Evo III 16G straight away and getting greater airflow at a lower boost level which is safer for both the engine and the turbo. Spool will be slightly-slower but the power potential will be better into the higher RPM range as well. Do it once and do it right.

 

[DevineAstral]

You won't need a built head for any power goal under 400whp or so. It ultimately depends on engine RPM and cam selection.

Unless you have a lifter currently making noise and don't know which one it is, there's no reason to replace the lifters. Don't buy into the "no tick" gimmick, either- I have big-bore lifters in the car I drive daily and they're intermittently more-noisy than the stock lifters were...and I've done the oil port mod on the head. Better to leave the stock lifters in place and keep more oil in the pan.

Comp 101200's/FP2's and stock springs are fine if you absolutely need cams...but again, for modest power goals cams are completely unnecessary.

Don't do this. The stock pump is fine.

OEM stub shaft if you're eliminating the balance shafts. Don't buy into the necessity of a race shaft.

Stant 13868 for $4 is all I've ever run in a 2G...they work just fine.

Buy the largest injectors your tuning platform can support and safely tune at idle. Obviously a +/- 400hp car doesn't need 1600cc injectors, but a set of 750's or 850's wouldn't be a bad idea as opposed to 580's which are barely bigger than stock.

190 if you don't want to get an adjustable pressure regulator; 255 if you don't mind spending the funds on the regulator. With the money I've saved you from wasting on unnecessary crap thus far you should have plenty left over for a nice adjustable regulator setup.


The machine shop doing the work will hopefully be competent enough to know when guides are worn and need replaced and can recommend replacement if necessary. Seals, obviously...but the rest of the hardware will be fine to re-use.

If you buy a quality cam you won't need adjustable gears.

Tuning corrects for fuel and air consumption modifications. If you change a part of the fuel system directly related to engine management (like injectors), you'll need to re-tune. Same goes for cams, which alter how much air enters the engine during a combustion cycle and when.

I've always done balance shaft elimination with the engine on a stand. A friend of mine did it once with the engine in the car and said it was horrible, and he'd never do it that way again so I took his advice.

Another bit of advice- the T28 is only really a desirable turbo for someone demanding a 100% stock-fitment turbo upgrade for a 2G. Compared to the TD05H units, the T2 turbos are at the end of their rope for wheel sizes and efficiency so durability suffers compared to the larger TD05H turbos when used and abused. The T28 also doesn't favor most short-route FMIC setups as the outlet faces the passenger's side of the car like the stock T25. Rather than choosing a T28 which has a compressor map that ends around 22-23psi and beating the piss out of it to get to your power goal, you're better-off going with the MHI Evo III 16G straight away and getting greater airflow at a lower boost level which is safer for both the engine and the turbo. Spool will be slightly-slower but the power potential will be better into the higher RPM range as well. Do it once and do it right.

Thanks for the help man! i really do appreciate it.! I came to the conclusion that it will be best to just put the new head gasket on, replace the thermostat and water pump in addition to the idler/tensioner pulleys + new belts and alternator. Just going to shop around for a used engine and rebuild that the way i want over time. this way i can just drive the car and work on the exterior and then just drop it in when its done. I really do appriciate the help and will use this knowledge when i start the new build.!

 

[pauleyman]

Don't forget. You need a plan. As the saying goes, if you dont know where you're going, any road will get you there. Initially you made a parts list. Did you read the stuff I shared?
Try and list some objective goals.
Qtr mile. 0 to 60. Lateral g. 30 to 70. Etc
Then I would go more semi subjective.
All weather?
Pump gas?
Ride quality?
Noise?
What do you want the car to do?

 

[DevineAstral]

Don't forget. You need a plan. As the saying goes, if you dont know where you're going, any road will get you there. Initially you made a parts list. Did you read the stuff I shared?
Try and list some objective goals.
Qtr mile. 0 to 60. Lateral g. 30 to 70. Etc
Then I would go more semi subjective.
All weather?
Pump gas?
Ride quality?
Noise?
What do you want the car to do?

sorry bud, i guess my response to your last post didnt go through (spotty cell service). i'm just going to rebuild the car as stock and then figure out an exact plan of what i want to do with it and then i'll figure out the parts exactly.(as you stated, i pretty much made a list without any real idea in mind and going off of what i though i needed/wanted, instead of what i actually really need, which i'll admit was a stupid and newbie mistake, but this is a learning process for me considering i've been a basic bolt on/maintenance person.). It'll definitely wont be a winter car as i'm in PA. pump gas, stock ride quality, maybe a little more ridged at best. i dont really have any interest in 1/4Mi times or 0-60, i'm more of a momentum driver, and being able to carry that speed.

 

[pauleyman]

Starting to make sense. Thats why we are here. I have added mods and took them right back off because my plan wasn't very good. Ive also had the benefit of being around awhile so I've seen a lot. Some things are difficult to be objective. I rebuilt suspension with urethane bushings. They do change ride quality but it isn't bad. Would somebody notice vs stock? Probably. Now add Koni and eibach. Much bigger difference bit i still like it. Others may not.
That is just one example.