Resolved Head bolts

[tmota503]

Hey there guys, haven't been on here in a while. Delayed my build for a while. Anyways had a quick quik question.

I searched it and didn't get no find. When I was doin my 6 bolt swap I bought new head bolts to bolt down the head to the block. I got them from Auto Zone and they're Felpro brand.

Me and my friend were putting it back together, for the second time since my head gasket got blown on cause of a water jacket that the gasket covered. I did much research and every other brand of bf has it cover. So I ordered myself a MLS head gasket. Lined it up and when he saw the bolts he asked me doesn't it bring some grommets/washers. I said no they didn't come with it.

So wondering if you need the one ones with washers/grommets. If so to look online cause no auto parts store carries them around here. May have that caused my head gasket to mess up?

 

[99gst_racer]

Every head bolt set that I've ever seen had washers with them. I wouldn't attempt to install them without the washers.

You can buy the washers separate from ARP and they will work fine with any head bolt or stud set.

 

[DSMReviver]

From what I can understand your gasket covered the water passages, you don't have a washer with your studs, and you are now using MLS gaskets?

A gasket that covers the water passages is definitely gonna do it. All 4g63 head gaskets are similar and there shouldn't be anything blocking anything regards to water passages and oil passages. Unless Auto Zone gave you the wrong head gasket (Maybe for different car).

Not having washers is another suspect, because the washers work with the studs to distribute the clamp force equally. If I were you I would buy ARP head studs that already comes with washers.

You cannot use MLS gaskets unless you have your block and head machine to accept MLS gaskets. If you use it I guaranteed you will push coolant immediately after the install.

Here is what I would do...

1st check your head gasket and see if its for your car (buy another composite gasket, Fel-Pro makes them)

2nd get washer and if you can't buy ARP studs that already comes with washers

3rd clean the surface both the head and the block. Then check for flatness both the head and the block.

4th install the gasket and then torque the studs to proper recommended specs.

 

[ed1380]

Upload a pic of your headgasket, or compart it to pictures online. I doubt they'll give you the wrong one.

And you'll definitely need washers.

 

[tmota503]

Here's some pictures

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I didn't want to turn over no more so i opened it up, thought I had fuel problems but no. It's water problems

Thinking about going to HD and getting some washers then. hehehe

 

[19Eclipse90]

This pertains to the "blocked off" coolant passage; i.e., they aren't all open: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/398553-cylinder-head-modification-idea.html

 

[BogusSVO]

Post a pic of the head and block surface please.

Lay off the copper coat with a composite gasket.

Looks like at some point in time the valves hit the pistons pretty hard.

You have some sort of aftermarket valves in the head. NOT OE Mitsu They would be marked "6T"

Do this... http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341627-how-check-head-warp.html

 

[jntperformancekc]

Every head bolt set that I've ever seen had washers with them. I wouldn't attempt to install them without the washers.

You can buy the washers separate from ARP and they will work fine with any head bolt or stud set.

I would say that ARP head bolt set are wonderful. I trust those over a autopart store brand if I remember right they are made for boost.

 

[LandoAWD]

Hey "genius", ARP has hardware for all makes and models...

 

[RamenPride]

didnt want to turn over no more so i opened it up, thought i had fuel problems but no. its water problems

thinking about going to HD and getting some washers then. hehehe

Not sure if it's just the angle, but hope you didn't bend a rod from all that coolant filling the cylinder.

Washers from Home Depot are a bad idea, don't do it. Get new head bolts and open up the package to make sure they have washers (they should), or just get ARP's.

 

[ed1380]

Washers are around $2.50 a piece from arp.

You can get thick heavy future washers from mcmasters if you have one close by. I'd you're lucky your hardware store(ace) might have thick black washers.

 

[99gst_racer]

They're less than a buck each when ordered as a 10-pack (excluding freight costs).

ARP 200-8537 - ARP Special Purpose Washers - Overview - SummitRacing.com

 

[tmota503]

They're less than a buck each when ordered as a 10-pack (excluding freight costs).

ARP 200-8537 - ARP Special Purpose Washers - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Think I might go for those. And could I use my felpro bolts I bought?
Update: called Napa and they have head bolts with washers for the 2g felpro 31.99 . My friend just answered called me back(he sold me that head) and said its a 2g head. Would that matter? We used my turbo 1g cams on it. Reason for doing that is because 1g head has bent valves.

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[ed1380]

The bolts are supposed to match the block. You mentioned a 6 bolt swap in your first post, so you'll need 6 bolt bolts.

Pm me. I have a set of oem ones. They're almost as strong as the arp studs

 

[DAO 1950]

Wow, lots of stuff going on here.

First, the 2G head bolts won't work in a 6 bolt block. (I think you mentioned a 6 bolt block in your first post). Make sure you have clearance in the bolt holes in the 2G head for the bigger 6 bolt head bolts.

Second, don't use that MLS head gasket if you are not getting the head and block resurfaced.

Third, make sure you have the correct composite head gasket and get some washers for those bolts.

I would also check things out real good because, like was posted before, it sure looks like you had some piston to valve contact.

 

[tmota503]

Wow, lots of stuff going on here.
First, the 2G head bolts won't work in a 6 bolt block. ( I think you mentioned a 6 bolt block in your first post ). Make asure you have clearance in the bolt holes in the 2G head for the bigger 6 bolt head bolts.
Second, don't use that MLS head gasket if you are not getting the head and block resurfaced.
Third, make sure you have the correct composite head gasket and get some washers for those bolts.
I would also check things out real good because, like was posted before, it sure looks like you had some piston to valve contact.

when I first bought the new felpro head bolts I asked under 1990 Mitsubishi eclipse 2.0 turbo. So bolts are for 6 bolt. They just didn't come with the washers.

The previous owner of the 2g head had it resurfaced and cleaned before he rattle canned it and sold it to me.

So plans is order arp washers. Install with MLS gasket and replace t belt. Or sell car as is. It turned over and ran before this happened.

Ughhhh DSM's



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[BogusSVO]

Unless you plan on milling the block and decking the head, DO NOT USE THE MLS Head gasket.

Get another Felpro Composite or OE Composite.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...face-4g63t-cylinder-head-mls-head-gasket.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...-deck-4g63-cast-iron-block.html#post152790451

Also since you have a 7 bolt head on a 6 bolt block.. do this...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/341885-oil-port-mod-2-4g63t.html

 

[tmota503]

Unless you plan on milling the block and decking the head, DO NOT USE THE MLS Head gasket.

Get another Felpro Composite or OE Composite.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...face-4g63t-cylinder-head-mls-head-gasket.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...-deck-4g63-cast-iron-block.html#post152790451

Also since you have a 7 bolt head on a 6 bolt block.. do this...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/341885-oil-port-mod-2-4g63t.html

Alright, gonna borrow tools tonight and do oil mod. Question though. So its normal for the hg to cover the water jacket, right? Is that what messed up my hg? Just order the washers, do it in right sequence and torque them to specs. If I do all that and new felpro hg. Will it happen again? Why did it mess up in the first place. Talon ran great for a week and then started to lose power, would always need to refill coolant. Then just never turned over.
Thinking about selling my car but don't wanna pass on a messed up Dsm. I know I wouldn't want that to happen to me.

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[BogusSVO]

If the head is warped, it will not matter what HG you use. It will blow again.

The head has been off once before, this is told by the Felpro you just took off.

Yes that port in the head is supposed to be covered.

A blown HG is not the CAUSE of a problem, but a result of a problem.

Something else failed to cause the HG to let go, leaky rad, bad cap, cooling fans not comming on, improper surface finish, improper install of HG.......

 

[tmota503]

I'm goin to go back to my 1g head, just swap out the valves since the original ones are bent.

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[99gst_racer]

Be sure to check the guides as well. In many cases, they crack when the valves bend.

 

[BogusSVO]

If the guides are cracked and need replaced, you are past what you can DIY.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341218-how-change-valve-guides-4g63t-head.html

 

[tmota503]

Hey so took the head to the machine shop and they cleaned the head a and checked if it had been warped. No warped head.
Mechanic of mine checked the deck of motor to see if it had to be re decked. He said it looks good and didn't need to be re decked. Put new head gasket on and all new gaskets on head. Shes running fine just trying to avoid hitting high boost so head gasket can set in right.
thank you all for your advice and guides.

Now to read and resolve other problems. haha that's a DSM.