HE351VE Controller Project

[casuprock]

I am very curious about this setup. Kevin has filled me in on how everything is going to work. Sounds like an awesome setup. Can't wait.

Thanks for the support. The pace of the project is based on my funding & time. Do you weld? I see your ad for coolant overflow tanks... they look real nice.

 

[92awdgsx]

Yep. I weld all day, everyday. Your car would look even nicer with a tank. It gave Kevin's car 10hp over the rubermaid bottle.

The pace of the project is based on my funding & time.

I suggest getting more of both.

 

[casuprock]

I suggest getting more of both.

Maybe it'll go quicker if I can get a deal on a manifold somewhere.

 

[92awdgsx]

I think I know a place.

 

[casuprock]

Update: Had an excellent time at the DSM Shootout. Met a lot of people interested in this project. Met some guys who manufacture turbos who were interested in this project.

Hope to be selling these as a vendor there next year, or better yet bring one or two cars there with this installed. We'll see...

 

[casuprock]

The first prototype PCBs have arrived!

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[DSMboostin15]

Looking good. I've been following this thread for a while and it's good to see you're making progress. I'd love to put a VGT turbo on my Talon. Keep up the good work.

 

[dragonov_elite]

Awesome to see this project take form. Hope to see a working controller soon.

 

[kthackst]

I'll have my turbo next week. Can't wait.

 

[knochgoon24]

I might have to work local corner for a night so I can get started on a VGT setup. I almost boughtt a turbo last week off eBay. It sold for less than $200 shipped.

 

[turboglenn]

I"m so glad to see this project is still active and is continuing to take form. Although i've been planning on getting my hands on an HX-35, seeing that this is making progress towards a real production unit i think i'd rather hold off to wait and get my hands on one of your boxes and a variable turbine holset.

Are there any controls you could take over using a PWM output based on either TPS and RPM or RPM and Load Cell conditions? Sorta like a VTEC control in a stand alone where you have parameters Like Min. RPM / Max Rpm , Load Cell on /Load Cell off ?? (example based on haltech Vtec control)

Although i like the ideas of how you will have it set to work best with the Holset turbo based on turbine speed, PR and so forth, could this be done simpler with a basic user controlled settings like the PWM controlled vtec for example, where we could have it restricted (motor stepped all the way in one direction) untill a certain engine RPM where we get some torque up and then make it start stepping open by certain amount of steps untill a point where say, we see full boost (based on our own MBC/EBC setting) and then have it set to step open all the way? I know for people without stand alone management this woudl be difficult but for those of us with extra digital and PWM outputs it could either be a secondary form of control or better yet, a simpler less expensive unit, although probably less overall effectivness it could be more universal instead of based solely around the holset nd it's compressor efficiency and speeds (i always think to keep it on the simple side)

Every now and then i get to drive a friends porsche that has the variable turbine setup from the factory and it's absolutely an amazing thing to feel as it transitions from the low RPM range with restricted turbine, on up into high RPM and boost with everything wide open. I've always wished there'd be something like this we could utilize on our cars or other non-OEM applications. It's an awesome thing you're bringing to the table. Based on the seat time i've been able to get in the porsche i have to say that this will almost surely become a "must have" for those of us who crave the high HP but still want our DD to be as street friendly as possible in the lower RPM range. A great mid-way point between dealing with lag or going for something like Paul's compound turbo system that's had me drooling for oh so long

Any idea on how long it would be before the public may see the chance to order one of these up??? (and i hate to ask because i don't want to make you feel cornered, but any idea what the final retail cost might be?)

 

[casuprock]

Populated prototype board. The power systems work, the USB hardware works, the JTAG programming interface works. Now for the fun part... programming and evaluating the peripheral components like ADCs, stepper driver, and VR input.

I expect maybe a month of programming work to make sure there are no bugs in the prototype and develop the skeleton program. Then it will be ready to integrate onto the turbo and have some real fun.

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[ed1380]

Populated prototype board. The power systems work, the USB hardware works, the JTAG programming interface works. Now for the fun part... programming and evaluating the peripheral components like ADCs, stepper driver, and VR input, ship to ed1380 for testing

I expect maybe a month of programming work to make sure there are no bugs in the prototype and develop the skeleton program. Then it will be ready to integrate onto the turbo and have some real fun.

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You forgot a step

 

[casuprock]

Although i like the ideas of how you will have it set to work best with the Holset turbo based on turbine speed, PR and so forth, could this be done simpler with a basic...

Any idea on how long it would be before the public may see the chance to order one of these up??? (and i hate to ask because i don't want to make you feel cornered, but any idea what the final retail cost might be?)

Well, yes, it could be based on TPS, engine RPM, etc. and could be made to work alright based on these inputs. However, it wouldn't be optimal. I would be violating the sacred code of engineering to make something less than optimal. This will be calculating the compressor efficiency and relate this to the shaft speed and PR so that I can get the compressor up to speed as fast as possible without producing hot air.

I plan on putting this project onto the Kickstarter website so I can get people to buy-in to a commercial version. Then I will produce some number of them for sale. The price will be based on the final bill of materials after prototyping is complete. It won't be prohibitively expensive. A nice standard turbo will run $900-$1500. These 351VE's cost $200. The controller's real value is that it makes the 351VE worth a lot more. Like you said, a big turbo that still drives fun like a small turbo.

You forgot a step

kthackst is first in line for a prototype. You should all thank him, he's responsible for me buying a DSM.

We have a lot of work to do yet, like designing a manifold to go with this turbo. That's not all peaches and cream since the turbo is so big and we're going to engineer the manifold correctly to keep velocity up and pipe losses down.

I think we'll see a lot of pictures and discussion of these things, either in this thread or a sister thread started to document the mechanical aspect.

 

[92awdgsx]

I'm going to start on the manifold design once kthackst gets the turbo. The turbine housing is a monster. Its gonna be tight.

 

[knochgoon24]

I finally got around to ordering an Arduino mega 2560. You're way further ahead than I am. I'm still debating if I want to try and run something as large as a HE351 on my car just yet. Until then, I'll mess around with getting the Arduino to do things an SAFC would do. Should be a start at least.

That prototype looks sweet.

 

[casuprock]

I'm going to start on the manifold design once kthackst gets the turbo. The turbine housing is a monster. Its gonna be tight.

I started a thread to document the manifold development process. You'll probably be the lead on this thread since you've got uber experience here. Kevin and I can do analysis to figure bend angles, lengths, & diameters but as far as implementing a design, that's your area.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...351ve-manifold-development.html#post152729374

something as large as a HE351

If this controller works like we want, the HE351 will drive like a 16G that flows 69lb/min.

 

[casuprock]

External pressure sensor and pressure sensor ADC works. PWM works off the processor. LEDs work. There are 5 indicator LEDs- 2x red, green, blue, white. One of the reds is a power LED.

What colors should I associate with the following? I plan on making the light intensity change proportionally to the values-
Compressor outlet temp
Pressure ratio
Shaft speed
Vane position

 

[talonDSMerr]

External pressure sensor and pressure sensor ADC works. PWM works off the processor. LEDs work. There are 5 indicator LEDs- 2x red, green, blue, white. One of the reds is a power LED.

What colors should I associate with the following? I plan on making the light intensity change proportionally to the values-
Compressor outlet temp - red
Pressure ratio - blue
Shaft speed - white
Vane position - green

My vote.

Incredible project by the way, and how you are tackling it on your own time is even more amazing

 

[knochgoon24]

Temp - Red
Pressure Ratio - White
Shaft Speed - Blue
Vane Position - Green

 

[turboglenn]

External pressure sensor and pressure sensor ADC works. PWM works off the processor. LEDs work. There are 5 indicator LEDs- 2x red, green, blue, white. One of the reds is a power LED.

What colors should I associate with the following? I plan on making the light intensity change proportionally to the values-
Compressor outlet temp
Pressure ratio
Shaft speed
Vane position

Before i vote, what will the LED for the following indicate

out temp? that it's reached a certain temp then comes on or what?

pressure ratio? again did it reach a preset or why is the light coming on

shaft speed - same as above

vane position (this one i can understand as closed or open)

 

[casuprock]

My vote.

Incredible project by the way, and how you are tackling it on your own time is even more amazing

Thank you, I'm not tackling entirely on my own. I do the electronics design and programming, but get input from an electrical engineering friend (not on DSMtuners). Also kthackst is important advising the overall system design. 92awdgsx is a professional welder who has leading input on the manifold fabrication.

Before i vote, what will the LED for the following indicate

out temp? that it's reached a certain temp then comes on or what?

pressure ratio? again did it reach a preset or why is the light coming on

shaft speed - same as above

vane position (this one i can understand as closed or open)

The LEDs will all change brightness by PWM proportionally to the sensor reading, so instead of just turning on or off, they'll be "smooth looking". It's eye candy and more a visualization for watching on the dyno or quickly checking sensor status. The raw sensor data will be streamed out to an excel file from the USB connection.

These make sense so far.
Compressor Outlet Temp- Red
Vane Position- Green

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[casuprock]

-The SPI bus works and I have code written to interface the thermocouple ADC and on-board barometric pressure and temperature sensor
-The on-board barometric pressure sensor works. I forgot to route the SHDN pin on the barometric sensor, so that was fun.
- Next step is to write code to talk with the stepper motor interface, supply PWM signal, and drive a motor.
- Next step is to write timer code for measuring the period off the variable reluctance amplifier.

The grand test finale will be getting the USB software written and PC side logging software.

That will complete the hardware verification and I'll attach this to the turbo. Then the fun part starts and we get to test all these fun equations from the fluids and thermodynamics books!

 

[knochgoon24]

It will be interesting to see how well this controls the turbo. I was talking with a Cummins rep the other day. One of their guys came to PSU to talk to the FSAE club. Talk switched to VGT turbos (we run a small VGT Aerocharger on our car), and I mentioned something about this project. He was really interested since he used to have a 2g AWD Talon. He had heard that we (DSMers) have become go-to guys for Holset HX35, 40, 52, etc info. He was wondering how long it would take until people started making their own controllers and strapping VGT versions to DSMs. He said he's proud to see we're getting there first.

 

[casuprock]

It will be interesting to see how well this controls the turbo. I was talking with a Cummins rep the other day. One of their guys came to PSU to talk to the FSAE club. Talk switched to VGT turbos (we run a small VGT Aerocharger on our car), and I mentioned something about this project. He was really interested since he used to have a 2g AWD Talon. He had heard that we (DSMers) have become go-to guys for Holset HX35, 40, 52, etc info. He was wondering how long it would take until people started making their own controllers and strapping VGT versions to DSMs. He said he's proud to see we're getting there first.

That's awesome... did you happen to catch his name & contact info?