gt3582r vs. gt4088r vs. gt4094r

[oldman]

Although the fastest non-NOS run was with a 3065, the GT3582R has made as much as 680WHP on Turbo Trix's car (no NOS).

And then the HG blew.

Then again we'll put this whole thing to rest when Bruce lines with me when we get both our new setups finished

That's assuming my 3 bolt will hold.

 

[turbo addict]

Looks like you have a non BB PT-76, I couldn't find a GT42-76 on their site.

mine is right here-http://www.precisionturbo.net/mid-frame-turbochargers.php
It is the newer one with a gt42 housing and turbine wheel not the T04h

 

[definitiveno]

The FP3065 Doesn't hold a candle to the power you will see out of a GT35R. Two different turbo's for two different applications.

Maybe, however it's been going faster for well over a year. I'm just giving the facts sir, not theory's.

 

[twicks69]

I have the 4088R on my 2.3L, and it is extremely streetable. From 4000rpms and up, it is a very scary ride.

The car also made 645 AWHP and 567 Torque SAE Uncorrected@ 35psi on a Dynocom AWD dyno (Beyond Redline Performance, Green Bay, WI)

I like either a T4 35R from Garrett, or

a 4088R with a 0.81 or 0.96 A/R divided T4 flange V-band outlet.

Contact Jeff Koppelman @ Fuel Systems in Wauwatosa. He usually has all the turbos mentioned in this link in stock, and he can explain more to you about them in person.
Tell him Tim Zimmer referred you.

[email protected]

Here is a link for directions to his shop.

http://www.google.com/maps?hl=en&sa...+WI+53005,+USA&sa=X&oi=local&ct=directions-to


Here is a link from my post regarding dyno numbers listed above:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257766

Dyno pulls were in 3rd gear.

 

[motoman358]

Tim, hows it going? This is nick, i was talking to you at great lakes a couple weeks ago before the fun runs rained out. Hows the car been running? I am assuming you havent made it down the 1320 yet with the new set up have ya? wisconsin weather is rediculious. My clutch issues were due to the clutch fork, replaced it with a new one and the slippage/engagement problems went away. That 4088r that you got on your car is what got me thinking about goun with a gt40 series turbo, im just afraid it would be too big as im only running a 2.0l and my car is primarily a street car. im sure ill have lots of questions on your setup to help me decide on a turbo.

 

[twicks69]

You can always PM me, and I will be more than happy to help you!


Personally, for a 2.0L street/strip car, I would stay with a GT3582R (P/N: 711679-22 -- V-band outlet 0.82 A/R housing) because it is proven into the 11's and 10's with a good tune. The turbo has excellent spoolup characteristics with excellent midrange and top end. 500+whp is obtainable with this turbo with as little as 20-22psi of boost on a well prepped motor.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Personally, for a 2.0L street/strip car, I would stay with a GT3582R (P/N: 711679-22 -- V-band outlet 0.82 A/R housing)

FTW

 

[motoman358]

looks like ill probably be going with the 3582r

 

[DSM90AWD]

For the archives, the Garrett / Tial GT3076R, GT3082R, GT3582R and all the (to be released) Tial GT30/35R SS housings use the same non-std 90mm v-band outlet.

Note that there is only one "correct" mating weld flange which I found after weeks of searching, questioning Garrett/Tial vendors and ordering incorrect pieces (e.g. do not use the ATP 3", Vibrant 3", ClampCo 3" as are all Std 3.625" OD / 3" ID).

The correct flange is Tial# VBF300M which has a 3.5" OD (90mm), 73mm (2.875") ID, the correct "male" alignment ring that mates to the turbine housing flange's "female" receiver groove and is cut to accept a 3" OD exhaust pipe.

Although "generic" v-band clamps may work, the correct Tial clamp for this 90mm OD flange is Tial# SRT355.

Note that no "Authorized Garrett/Tial" vendor that I spoke to knew that this set fit the Garrett/Tial v-band outlets nor that the outlets would not work with the "generic" 3" flange sets. Also neither of these pieces are listed in the Tial catalog right now as they were specifically made for the yet to be released GT30/35R SS v-band housings.

Also note that you have to order these from an Authorized Tial dealer. So whomever you buy your Garrett/Tial turbo from, give them the above P/Ns, and if they tell you they can't get it, tell them Char at Tial said they can and to give her a call.

BTW.. thanks to JP (coltboostin) for the help in finding this flange and Ron Shearer for selling me the only one he had

 

[twicks69]

WOW -- I didn't know that people were having problems with this.

Great information to add!! Especially the part #!~

Mine worked just fine (same ole V-band flange as my PTE T4 SC6181SP) with a V-band from Jake (topstreet), and I think he purchased it from ATP. But we made a 3.5" to 3" downpipe on my setup.


I am sorry to hear that you had so many problems finding a flange to work with your application -- that SUCKS

I am happy that it all worked out in the end for you, and I look forward to hearing how the talon is doing. BTW, which turbo did you end up going with???

 

[DSM90AWD]

PTE has their own v-band dimension schema and the Garrett T4 housings cut for the GT35R (s/a 4088?) use a std 3.625 OD / 3" ID v-band outlet so would be easy to find a correct mating flange (all the 3" ones I list above would fit).

I picked up the GT3582R with a .63 v-banded outlet and Tial's anti-surge cover. I figure it should get me to the 500WHP level without pushing it and if/when I want to eek out the most from it or run N2O, can pick up the .82 housing for $200

Just got the flange in last night, so should have all my fabrication done tonight and back from my welder friend early next week (of which will be the basis of a new tech article ).

Tim, thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge on this turbo with me over PM. It really helped me sort out what I wanted

 

[twicks69]

Excellent info!

I cannot wait to see your results with it.

I hope you will make 500 around 22-26psi (peak efficiency, but loves it all the way to 35psi) depending on timing, gas, tune. You will likely see around 420+ torque.



As always, I am here to help! You are welcome!

 

[JohnTSI]

We went 9.6 on a 35r in the auto car, and Brian from Dogbox has went 9.1 last I heard on a 35r as well. It is more than enough turbo for most people.

 

[definitiveno]

PTE has their own v-band dimension schema and the Garrett T4 housings cut for the GT35R (s/a 4088?) use a std 3.625 OD / 3" ID v-band outlet so would be easy to find a correct mating flange (all the 3" ones I list above would fit).

I picked up the GT3582R with a .63 v-banded outlet and Tial's anti-surge cover. I figure it should get me to the 500WHP level without pushing it and if/when I want to eek out the most from it or run N2O, can pick up the .82 housing for $200

Just got the flange in last night, so should have all my fabrication done tonight and back from my welder friend early next week (of which will be the basis of a new tech article ).

Tim, thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge on this turbo with me over PM. It really helped me sort out what I wanted

We will definitely have to compare logs once both our cars are up, I debated for weeks weather to go with the gt3082r .82 A/R or the gt3582r .63 A/R and ended up deciding on the latter. I was torn for a long time but the success of the fp3065 helped sway me towards the 30 hotside. Time will tell if that was a mistake or not.


I will be using link with maft, cams are fp3 and head is stage 4 polk. I think those are the major VE variables minus the standard stuff, tubular header, O2, and 3 inch exhaust. Should be fun to compare notes.

 

[tstkl]

I'm going with a large turbo this year too, and can't exactly decide on what turbine housing to use. I would like to get 600+whp and a sub 10 slip, although I know thats going to be hard for someone as newbish as me (first build of my life), so I want to make sure I have a turbo that can do it. Im not asking for which will be the easiest to make that type of power on, obviously if I wanted to do it the easiest I would just go with the 4094, but I want to make sure that the turbo I get is capable of it. Im leaning toward the 3582 with a straight t3 housing with a .82 a/r, but right now its somewhat of a toss up between that, and the t4 .58 a/r housing. The t4 will require a tubular exhaust manifold with a divided outlet, as well as either twin wastegates, or some design to accommodate the split, while the T3 exhaust manifold Im looking at is simply the turbonetics one with the tail 38mm flange on cylinder #1. That will significantly bring price down, but the question is, what is the cost to performance. Is it worth it for me to go t4, or is it possible on the t3. I understand it will be hard, but hey, I do like a challenge every once in a while.

any input and any numbers put down on which hotsides (like that 9.6 and 9.1 ran by johntsi or whatever, what were the weights of those cars, and the turbine housings used?)
will be appreciated, thanks.

 

[nanokpsi]

I'm going with a large turbo this year too, and can't exactly decide on what turbine housing to use. I would like to get 600+whp and a sub 10 slip, although I know thats going to be hard for someone as newbish as me (first build of my life), so I want to make sure I have a turbo that can do it. Im not asking for which will be the easiest to make that type of power on, obviously if I wanted to do it the easiest I would just go with the 4094, but I want to make sure that the turbo I get is capable of it. Im leaning toward the 3582 with a straight t3 housing with a .82 a/r, but right now its somewhat of a toss up between that, and the t4 .58 a/r housing. The t4 will require a tubular exhaust manifold with a divided outlet, as well as either twin wastegates, or some design to accommodate the split, while the T3 exhaust manifold Im looking at is simply the turbonetics one with the tail 38mm flange on cylinder #1. That will significantly bring price down, but the question is, what is the cost to performance. Is it worth it for me to go t4, or is it possible on the t3. I understand it will be hard, but hey, I do like a challenge every once in a while.

any input and any numbers put down on which hotsides (like that 9.6 and 9.1 ran by johntsi or whatever, what were the weights of those cars, and the turbine housings used?)
will be appreciated, thanks.

You could always pick up a revhard cast t4 mani. They can be found dirt cheap and they get the job done. The wg outlet is also on the underside on the collector not a runner. If you are mainly concerned with making the power and a good et, I would opt for the .68 open turbine housing. The bb chra takes care of the lag between shifts so it would just cost you a little sppol time. The revhard/.68 combo works pretty well for me to make 500whp on pump gas.

 

[diambo4life]

Looks like you have a non BB PT-76, I couldn't find a GT42-76 on their site.

It's just that other people prefer labeling the turbo by inducer size. The GT42-76 is the GT42 with the 76mm inducer.

 

[DSM90AWD]

It's just that other people prefer labeling the turbo by inducer size. The GT42-76 is the GT42 with the 76mm inducer.

Out of curiousity is this a different wheel than the 53trim GT4202R which has a 74.3mm inducer and 102.3mm exducer or is this something completely different/new?

 

[turbo addict]

Out of curiousity is this a different wheel than the 53trim GT4202R which has a 74.3mm inducer and 102.3mm exducer or is this something completely different/new?

Completely new-76.7mm inducer. look up in the thread and I think I have a link to precision turbo and the new turbos.

 

[diambo4life]

John, I know for a fact the GT42 comes with 3 different compressor wheel inducer sizes. A 70mm, 74mm and a 76mm.

 

[twicks69]

Garrett shows the 70.3 for the 4294R, 74.3 for the 4202R,

But Precision Turbo shows this one on their site.

P/N 150-4240
Model # GT427602R
HP rating: 1,200
Price: Call
Turbine Flange: T4 Tang 0.98 A/R Dvd.
Turbine Wheel: Inducer 3.200" (81.3mm) Exducer 2.960" (75mm)
Center Section: Ball Bearing
Compressor Wheel: Inducer 3.020" (76.7mm) Exducer 4.030" (102.3mm)

Optional T4 turbine flanges: T4 Tang 1.00, 1.12 Dvd., 1.14, 1.27, 1.28 Dvd., 1.44 Dvd.


It looks like they are pulling an extra 100HP out of the turbo while staying in class regulations (77.5mm maximum inducer size for "76mm max single turbo" -- NHRA Sport RWD/AWD class rules, by using a GT45 comp wheel. Nothing really cutting edge about it, just that they are publicly selling it now. There were several people with modified 42R's last year competing within class regulations. Pro RWD/AWD class regs allow a compressor inducer of 89.5mm in the "88mm max single turbo" NHRA rulebook. Some of them had setups up to 116-118mm exducers on their comp wheels while still having the 76mm/88mm limit inducers for their classes-- custom wheels cost custom $$dollars$$ in most cases (Sponsorships and friends help out alot with making things happen at this level though).

 

[turbo addict]

Garrett shows the 70.3 for the 4294R, 74.3 for the 4202R,

But Precision Turbo shows this one on their site.

P/N 150-4240
Model # GT427602R
HP rating: 1,200
Price: Call
Turbine Flange: T4 Tang 0.98 A/R Dvd.
Turbine Wheel: Inducer 3.200" (81.3mm) Exducer 2.960" (75mm)
Center Section: Ball Bearing
Compressor Wheel: Inducer 3.020" (76.7mm) Exducer 4.030" (102.3mm)

Optional T4 turbine flanges: T4 Tang 1.00, 1.12 Dvd., 1.14, 1.27, 1.28 Dvd., 1.44 Dvd.


It looks like they are pulling an extra 100HP out of the turbo while staying in class regulations (77.5mm maximum inducer size for "76mm max single turbo" -- NHRA Sport RWD/AWD class rules, by using a GT45 comp wheel. Nothing really cutting edge about it, just that they are publicly selling it now. There were several people with modified 42R's last year competing within class regulations. Pro RWD/AWD class regs allow a compressor inducer of 89.5mm in the "88mm max single turbo" NHRA rulebook. Some of them had setups up to 116-118mm exducers on their comp wheels while still having the 76mm/88mm limit inducers for their classes-- custom wheels cost custom $$dollars$$ in most cases (Sponsorships and friends help out alot with making things happen at this level though).

I believe that is teh one that I have but Mine is a 1.15ar T4 divided turbine housing.