GSC balance shaft eliminator help

[stud3737]

When I do my balance shaft delete with the GSC BSE kit. It comes with 3 bearings, 2 with oil holes. 1 without. When I remove the old shaft and bearings and put the new ones in, do the new bearings that have the oil holes go in just like the old bearings did or do I have to cover up the oil holes. And where does that last bearing go, at the end of the shaft or what???? I cant find a write up with the "race balance shaft" and I want to make sure I get it done right... I have a new engine on the way (car got stolen and the guy did some damage) and doing my timing and BSE, my first engine and turbo swap!!!

I'll have more questions in a bit, need clarification on things with this . Gotta walk me through this, its stressing me out... Thanks for the help!!!!!

 

[WES_393]

The 2 bearings with holes are to block the oil holes for the front shaft. Just install them so the oiling holes in the block are covered by the bearing, NOT lined up with them.

The bearing with no holes is for the rear/race shaft. There's no oiling holes in the block for the rear shaft, oil is fed through the shaft itself.

 

[crash89]

You know, now that I think of it. I did a BSE two winters ago with my Eagle/wiseco set up.. I never turned those bearings... FML, cost me 2k.. Spun a rod bearing in 800 miles..

 

[WES_393]

Ouch. That's why I prefer to just leave the front shaft in with no belt.

 

[crash89]

I dont remember turning any bearings.. :/ God damnit.. Now I dont even care. Im running a stock 7 bolt with my hx35 with balance shafts. No issues with the motor this season. running 26-29 psi all season as a DD and track car. fvck it!

 

[boost97gst]

Im doing the same thing as wes. keeping front shaft just cutting the belt. Can you confirm this eliminates the "BSE then high oil pressure" problem we all hear about all the time? Ive heard keeping the front shaft will cause the oil pres to stay the same even with the rear removed.

Also, side question, isnt the OEM rear bse kit the way to go? I havent looked in to this much but i figured i might as well delete the rear bs on my build coming up.

 

[renovatdkitchen]

^Curious about that too actually. It would make sense that the oil pressure would stay the same, due to there being a clearance, but maybe it would bump it up a little?

 

[TX D22A]

^Curious about that too actually. It would make sense that the oil pressure would stay the same, due to there being a clearance, but maybe it would bump it up a little?

I would think blocking it completely would raise the oil pressure some.

I know you'll have problems if you use a stubby shaft for the rear that doesn't have an oil journal in it. The OEM stubby shaft has an oil journal in it, but some aftermarket ones do not.

 

[boost97gst]

Seems that way to me. Block of rear BS=no change, oil flows through it
Block of front bs and now theres basically 2 ports that used to flow oil but now served to block oil. It HAS to raise pressure. I understand why, i think, people report hi press and do the ofh relief mod

But if i were to do nothing at all but cut the belt on the front shaft that means it will still flow oil through like normal, but the shaft wont be spinning. So that obviously wont HURT anything but i am thinking in this scenario both BS are passing oil at the same rate they were when it was 100%stock so the oil pressure should not go up a lil or drop a lil i, theory(my theory) it should stay the same and cause absolutely no harm to the front bs or bearing, cause it wont be turning.

Please correct me if im being ridiculous and missing something so i can edit this out. Makes sense to me as i think about it though.

I would think blocking it completely would raise the oil pressure some.

I know you'll have problems if you use a stubby shaft for the rear that doesn't have an oil journal in it. The OEM stubby shaft has an oil journal in it, but some aftermarket ones do not.

From my very brief research (20 minutes) you really want the OEM with the groove cut in it.

 

[renovatdkitchen]

But if i were to do nothing at all but cut the belt on the front shaft...

You have to delete both front and rear or neither. Running only one balance shaft will cause abnormal vibrations. The rear one isnt hard to do even with the engine in the chassis.Cut the belt, replace the crankshaft gear with the spacer (optional), replace the rear shaft with an OEM stubby, check your oil pump clearances.

 

[fierosail]

Ouch. That's why I prefer to just leave the front shaft in with no belt.

how i do all mine and no probs at all and can be done in car

 

[c2ypt1c]

You have to delete both front and rear or neither. Running only one balance shaft will cause abnormal vibrations.

*EDIT* Nevermind, I misread your response...I think

For those wondering, I can confirm that removing just the rear shaft has little, if any, effect on oil pressure. I also used the OEM stub shaft.

 

[boost97gst]

renovatkitchen, i was under the influence of ambien, maybe thats why i was misinterpreted . I did indeed mean cutting the front bs belt while removing the rear bs. The rear bs def will be removed.
Thats how i plan on doing mine.
thats good to know cryptic, thanks for confirming.

 

[stud3737]

soooo.....I can cut the belt to the front and leave that shaft be and put the gsc one in the rear with the new bearing and get it set up with the oil pump?

 

[4G63gst1990]

i am running a AMS shaft delete and i was under the impression that i would need to still leave the bearings so that the oil would lube the shaft end in the beariing as to not ruin the bearing or shaft


edit sorry i didnt scroll down and i am still a little tired sorry

 

[94allwheeldsm]

You have to delete both front and rear or neither. Running only one balance shaft will cause abnormal vibrations. The rear one isnt hard to do even with the engine in the chassis.Cut the belt, replace the crankshaft gear with the spacer (optional), replace the rear shaft with an OEM stubby, check your oil pump clearances.

When I first bought my car with bent valves we replaced the head. When doing the timing the first thing my buddy did was cut the front shaft's belt. I drove it that way for a while. With my new motor, they are both gone, and I can say it has more vibration than that one ever did.
I never noticed any random knocks, and I never noticed any difference from mine to anyone else who had both shafts.
IMHO cutting that belt is one of the best insurance policies you can do. I have seen these go/break on two motors. One head survived the other didn't.
Every car I work one that has the belt I usually cut it.

i am running a AMS shaft delete and i was under the impression that i would need to still leave the bearings so that the oil would lube the shaft end in the beariing as to not ruin the bearing or shaft

The oil is fed through the shaft.

 

[boost97gst]

soooo.....I can cut the belt to the front and leave that shaft be and put the gsc one in the rear with the new bearing and get it set up with the oil pump?

Yes, youve already seen 2 guys that are doing it. Wes being one of them.
Its all good

 

[stud3737]

Yes, youve already seen 2 guys that are doing it. Wes being one of them.
Its all good

Ok thank you for confirming

The 2 bearings with holes are to block the oil holes for the front shaft. Just install them so the oiling holes in the block are covered by the bearing, NOT lined up with them.

The bearing with no holes is for the rear/race shaft. There's no oiling holes in the block for the rear shaft, oil is fed through the shaft itself.

Where exactly does that bearing without a hole in it go exactly? IE the end of shaft or what? And I can discard the other bearings that have the oil holes, cut the belt and I'm golden!?

 

[c2ypt1c]

Where exactly does that bearing without a hole in it go exactly? IE the end of shaft or what?

Wes already answered this for you:

The bearing with no holes is for the rear/race shaft. There's no oiling holes in the block for the rear shaft, oil is fed through the shaft itself.

It replaces the factory bearing, which seems redundant IMO...

And I can discard the other bearings that have the oil holes, cut the belt and I'm golden!?

Instead of doing that, I highly recommend just getting an OEM stub shaft and replacing the rear shaft only. Here's a link for it:
EXTREME PSI: OEM Mitsubishi Balance Shaft Stub

All you need is the stub shaft, nothing else. This is by far the cheapest and easiest way because you don't have to worry about any bearings, oil pressure, the front shaft, plugging holes, or any of that stuff. Just replace the rear shaft and remove the belt. That's it.

Be aware, that you'll probably want to grab a gasket kit for the front case and oil filter housing. Here's the one I used and I'm definitely glad I did, it comes with everything:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=128268&cc=1205873

 

[WES_393]

Im doing the same thing as wes. keeping front shaft just cutting the belt. Can you confirm this eliminates the "BSE then high oil pressure" problem we all hear about all the time? Ive heard keeping the front shaft will cause the oil pres to stay the same even with the rear removed.

Also, side question, isnt the OEM rear bse kit the way to go? I havent looked in to this much but i figured i might as well delete the rear bs on my build coming up.

My oil pressure was never insanely high like I always hear about with full shaft delete. With 15-40 oil I would only reach 100psi during sub-freezing starts. Otherwise it was higher than spec, but still not excessive.

And yes, IMO an OEM stubby is the way to go. Some believe that the GSC race shaft is better for combating the side-loading issue with 91-99 oil pumps. But that's really just an issue with helical gear design, a race shaft isn't going to support the gears any better than a stubby shaft. If the stubby really caused issues, I don't think Mitsu would use them in their Rally engines.

Just be sure to use a true Mitsu stubby (which is what, 15 bucks?)

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[renovatdkitchen]

renovatkitchen, i was under the influence of ambien, maybe thats why i was misinterpreted . I did indeed mean cutting the front bs belt while removing the rear bs. The rear bs def will be removed.
Thats how i plan on doing mine.
thats good to know cryptic, thanks for confirming.

That'll work. Its the easy way of doing it. MUCH easier way of doing it if you arent removing the block from the chassis.

 

[stud3737]

Hmmm maybe I will do the stubby shaft instead... why don't I need to plug holes or anything like the video dsm graveyard put on YouTube? What's up with that? is it because it was a delete of both shafts?

 

[BogusSVO]

The front shaft will act as a cork and limit the amount of oil. If you remove the front shaft, then you have to flip the front bearings to block the oil galleys.

 

[stud3737]

right, but what about the part your suppose to plug on the oil pump tho?

 

[BogusSVO]

right, but what about the part your suppose to plug on the oil pump tho?

If the rear BS bearing bore is not spun out, then I recommend using the AMS/GSC/Cut down shaft.

If the rear BS bearing has spun, then run the Mitsu grooved stubby shaft.

The AMS/GSC/Cut down shaft will help keep the oil pump gears aligned if the timing belt is installed a bit to tight.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/468879-bse-look-stubby-shafts.html