Got car back... still issues...

[n00btalon]

Alright. i finally got my car back, a buddy of mine was working on it, he knows a lot has his own garage and is very picky... soo ill run a list of what was done...

the major issues are taken care off and well seem to be all good.

-Replaced stock crack exhaust manifold with EVO 3 Mani
-Replaced stock destroyed clutch/flywheel with Fidanza 2.1 clutch kit and Fidanza Flywheel
-Replaced stock downpipe and cat with 3'' downpipe and High flow 3'' cat.
-Replaced Left front half shaft.
-Replaced all belts and fluids.
-Clutch Master Cylinder
-ugh ok all i can remember....


K now... as i posted before the car went to the shop with Idle surge, but was only doing it when cold once warmed up it would stop, and Idle and run fine... now the Car still has Idle Surge but now will loop and search constantly as soon as the clutch is put in! the Idle it hits at the lowest seems high right around 1,200 and then up to 2000 or 2,200rpms! THIS NEEDS FIXED AND IS ANNOYING! We tried unplugging the FIAV and it did nothing.

k now also, when decelerating especially at high rpms the is alot of vibrations going on, atleast thats what it sounds like, from what i hear, it sounds like the exhaust vibrating somewhere, hopefully its not worse, you can hear it sounding like its coming from the middle/back of the car and at when really getting on it and then leting off in 2nd or so and letting it decelerate u can here it in the front end... guys help me out here, if these two can be fixed it would be awesome! thanks! gahhh

 

[Pirrofab]

Teflon tape on the biss screw also helps. Just think of it as a being used on plumbing equipment with threads. I've used the teflon tape on my car for over 2 years. no issues. If your idle surges or is high constantly you can spray the intake and T.b. with carb cleaner. If the idle dies down with the carb clean then that is the area of your leak.

 

[n00btalon]

Teflon tape on the biss screw also helps. Just think of it as a being used on plumbing equipment with threads. I've used the teflon tape on my car for over 2 years. no issues. If your idle surges or is high constantly you can spray the intake and T.b. with carb cleaner. If the idle dies down with the carb clean then that is the area of your leak.

what do you mean by spraying the intake and TB? just spray certain spots at a time?...? my surge happens now when the car is cold (sitting for a few hrs) once the temp guage goes up the surge stops and will run and idle fine... ill try the teflon trick, and while i have it out ill get the biss o ring...

alright so i went to do the teflon trick to my biss screw and check the o-ring and when i went to screw the biss all the way out it stopped at a certain point and would just spin?? is there another way to get it out other than just backing it out??? also the engine was cold and i started it up, the surge started and i put my thumb over the biss hole so see if that was the source and the surge continued... so im starting to think it is not the biss...

 

[snowborder714]

Yes, the BISS will not "screw" out. You'll need to devise a way to extract it. The easiest way is from the inside, but that requires taking parts off. Try some very sticky tape or something. Or just give my brother a call and he'll go over and get it out

 

[cbr600teardrop]

hay noobtalon sent u a pm.

 

[n00btalon]

Yes, the BISS will not "screw" out. You'll need to devise a way to extract it. The easiest way is from the inside, but that requires taking parts off. Try some very sticky tape or something. Or just give my brother a call and he'll go over and get it out

i wish i wasnt so damn picky but i want this surge fixed so bad. so i dont have to worry about it! i need you guys to rebuild this thing and bypass the fiav or soemthing ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

hay noobtalon sent u a pm.

thanks pm sent back

 

[snowborder714]

i wish i wasnt so damn picky but i want this surge fixed so bad. so i dont have to worry about it! i need you guys to rebuild this thing and bypass the fiav or soemthing ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Pick up a bypass plate then so when we get all the parts in (basically just waiting on the seals if we currently don't have any), we can get it done. I should know my seal count tomorrow hopefully. Or if you don't want to wait, you can order seals. I recommend the plate in this post by my brother. We both have them and they're nice quality.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/323319-fiav-block-off-bypass.html#post151799302

 

[Pirrofab]

what do you mean by spraying the intake and TB? just spray certain spots at a time?...? my surge happens now when the car is cold (sitting for a few hrs) once the temp guage goes up the surge stops and will run and idle fine... ill try the teflon trick, and while i have it out ill get the biss o ring...

Just spray the carb cleaner around the gaskets of the TB and Intake manifold and injector seals. This issue sounds more related to the fiav however my car idle surged when I first purchased it and when I did this the gaskets for the TB and TB Elbow were leaking. To answer your question a bit better just spray certain parts at a time while listenting to drops in your rpm. Start from the TB elbow and move to the TB and then to the rest of the intake like your intake gasket and injector seals at the cylinder head.

 

[n00btalon]

Pick up a bypass plate then so when we get all the parts in (basically just waiting on the seals if we currently don't have any), we can get it done. I should know my seal count tomorrow hopefully. Or if you don't want to wait, you can order seals. I recommend the plate in this post by my brother. We both have them and they're nice quality.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/323319-fiav-block-off-bypass.html#post151799302

i ordered a fiav bypass... from the level zero site! hopefully it'll get here quick!

 

[brownfinger]

Did you check the throttle cable to make sure the plate is actually closing 100%? Plus, I'd think it bears further investigation that the surge goes away when you disconnect the idle switch. Testing the switch is as simple as can be. With the throttle open, there should be continuity to ground. As soon as the throttle closes, that switch should be opened, breaking the continuity. You said that the problem goes away when you disconnect the switch. It sounds like that switch is bad, misadjusted, or the throttle isn't closing all of the way.

 

[n00btalon]

Did you check the throttle cable to make sure the plate is actually closing 100%? Plus, I'd think it bears further investigation that the surge goes away when you disconnect the idle switch. Testing the switch is as simple as can be. With the throttle open, there should be continuity to ground. As soon as the throttle closes, that switch should be opened, breaking the continuity. You said that the problem goes away when you disconnect the switch. It sounds like that switch is bad, misadjusted, or the throttle isn't closing all of the way.

you could be correct, my only issue would be... wouldnt the surge happen all the time if the switch was bad... not just when the engine is completely cold? when i start the car it revs up to about 2k 2.2k and will stick there then it'll knock it down to like 1.7k and it'll surge up and down from there a few times, the quickness of the surge slowing each time, until the car is warm and then the car is fine after that! plus the switch is brand new, but i will text it tomorrow, when the car goes back in the garage to check this exhaust vibrating!

Did you check the throttle cable to make sure the plate is actually closing 100%? Plus, I'd think it bears further investigation that the surge goes away when you disconnect the idle switch. Testing the switch is as simple as can be. With the throttle open, there should be continuity to ground. As soon as the throttle closes, that switch should be opened, breaking the continuity. You said that the problem goes away when you disconnect the switch. It sounds like that switch is bad, misadjusted, or the throttle isn't closing all of the way.

also what do you mean by misadjusted? i was told there is no adjusting to be made when switch the isc?

 

[brownfinger]

I suppose I need to de-clarify some things. The closed throttle switch is the one on top of the TB with one wire. That's the one I'm referring to. If you have a new throttle body, it should be in adjustment, and maybe your accelerator cable isn't. Anyway, that's the switch I was referring to testing. When you disconnect it, there is no longer any chance of continuity to ground, the wire is disconnected. That's how it supposed to be at idle. You said your surge went away when you disconnected the closed throttle switch.
Some people call it the throttle position switch. It's not the TPS. That's the TPSensor.
Test the switch with a ohm-meter, test light, buzzer, whatever. If you or anyone else ever messed with the throttle cable by any one of several different means, it might just be that the throttle isn't really closed all of the way.
When the engine is warm, the computer will figure out how to idle the engine with it's little brain. That's all the computer is there for. When it's cold, the computer isn't thinking, it's just looking things up from a chart. If the idle switch says the throttle is open, but all the other sensors are telling the computer that the engine is idling, you are giving the computer a combination of conditions that aren't listed on any of it's charts.
You still need to do the BISS procedure correctly, as shown on this VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions site. That is the correct way to set the idle. A lot of people think there are smarter than the people that designed the car, and they decide to adjust the idle by unbolting the throttle cable bracket from the plenum and tightening the cable to raise the idle. It sounds possible on your car. The throttle must be 100% closed. The idle air goes around the throttle plate through the BISS passage, the FIAV circuit (when cold), and the ISC passage.
When you mess with the BISS without grounding the correct terminals, the computer just moves the ISC to compensate for your adjustments. Disconnecting the ISC doesn't help, because you have no idea what position the ISC is in when you disconnect it. When you ground the diagnostic and timing terminals, the computer sets the ISC to the center of it's range of travel.
To be 100% legit, you test the TPS voltage, adjust if necessary. Then you do the BISS procedure. Then you do the ignition timing. If your ignition timing is incorrect, you need to do the BISS procedure one more time after you correct the ignition timing.
The VFAQ site is super-good about everything EXCEPT the TPS adjustment. They screwed that all up! It's done by voltage, not resistence.
If I were you, I'd start with the throttle cable and closed throttle switch. Make sure there's some slack on the cable, and test the switch.

 

[n00btalon]

I suppose I need to de-clarify some things. The closed throttle switch is the one on top of the TB with one wire. That's the one I'm referring to. If you have a new throttle body, it should be in adjustment, and maybe your accelerator cable isn't. Anyway, that's the switch I was referring to testing. When you disconnect it, there is no longer any chance of continuity to ground, the wire is disconnected. That's how it supposed to be at idle. You said your surge went away when you disconnected the closed throttle switch.
Some people call it the throttle position switch. It's not the TPS. That's the TPSensor.
Test the switch with a ohm-meter, test light, buzzer, whatever. If you or anyone else ever messed with the throttle cable by any one of several different means, it might just be that the throttle isn't really closed all of the way.
When the engine is warm, the computer will figure out how to idle the engine with it's little brain. That's all the computer is there for. When it's cold, the computer isn't thinking, it's just looking things up from a chart. If the idle switch says the throttle is open, but all the other sensors are telling the computer that the engine is idling, you are giving the computer a combination of conditions that aren't listed on any of it's charts.
You still need to do the BISS procedure correctly, as shown on this VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions site. That is the correct way to set the idle. A lot of people think there are smarter than the people that designed the car, and they decide to adjust the idle by unbolting the throttle cable bracket from the plenum and tightening the cable to raise the idle. It sounds possible on your car. The throttle must be 100% closed. The idle air goes around the throttle plate through the BISS passage, the FIAV circuit (when cold), and the ISC passage.
When you mess with the BISS without grounding the correct terminals, the computer just moves the ISC to compensate for your adjustments. Disconnecting the ISC doesn't help, because you have no idea what position the ISC is in when you disconnect it. When you ground the diagnostic and timing terminals, the computer sets the ISC to the center of it's range of travel.
To be 100% legit, you test the TPS voltage, adjust if necessary. Then you do the BISS procedure. Then you do the ignition timing. If your ignition timing is incorrect, you need to do the BISS procedure one more time after you correct the ignition timing.
The VFAQ site is super-good about everything EXCEPT the TPS adjustment. They screwed that all up! It's done by voltage, not resistence.
If I were you, I'd start with the throttle cable and closed throttle switch. Make sure there's some slack on the cable, and test the switch.

okay thanks im going to look into all these things tomorrow! okay do you know how i can adjust the throttle switch back to how it should be! because when looking at the surge and discovering when unhooking that it stopped the surge we actually adjusted the switch

and also when setting it, should i check the throttle plate/cable first to make sure that is set right and completely closed? and then set the switch... if u send me links that'd be great! after those too we'll move onto the BISS... unless you have a better form of steps thanks! i feel like im getting somewhere!

 

[snowborder714]

How to adjust idle switch.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...ttle-body-install-question.html#post151826306

 

[n00btalon]

How to adjust idle switch.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...ttle-body-install-question.html#post151826306

thanks again man. should i adjust the throttle cable first? then adjust the switch?

 

[snowborder714]

Won't matter. I usually adjust the idle switch when rebuilding them and then the cable when it's back on the car and connected.

 

[brownfinger]

If it's all on the car, then yes, you do the cable first, to make sure the throttle plate is completely closed. Then you adjust the switch.
Do the cable, then check the switch. There may be no need to mess with the switch if it was all a matter of a tight cable holding the throttle open.

 

[n00btalon]

If it's all on the car, then yes, you do the cable first, to make sure the throttle plate is completely closed. Then you adjust the switch.
Do the cable, then check the switch. There may be no need to mess with the switch if it was all a matter of a tight cable holding the throttle open.

the only reason i say aobut the switch is because i messed with it and adjusted it... so it'll need set back to spec thanks

 

[snowborder714]

If you set the switch properly, then the plate will be completely closed.

 

[EFDfire446]

did u check the pcv valve , my girlfriends car did the same thing and it was the pcv