Good Values with DSMLink

[TSIkw]

I've been trying to tune my car for the past few days with dsmlink. I am getting about 1.5 counts of knock at WOT usually btween 3000- 4500rpm. I don't get the knock all the time and when i do it spikes to 1.5 or so and then steadily declines.

I can't post a log or anything right now, but here is my question...what are good numbers to by getting at WOT for O2, AFR, Airflow?

I have Denso 660's and right now i have to have my RPM fuel values at +25 and 26 from 3000-7000 to keep the knock down. Is this normal or should i be changing some other values instead of adding fuel. (I have my timing down 2 degrees at 3000, 3500, and 1 degree at 4000)

 

[Dark_Horse]

You have the sliders set at +26 from 3,000 to 7,000rpm?!?! Did you set the global fuel slider & dead time correctly? If your sliders are set correctly then you're running WAY rich from 3,000 - 7,000rpm.

Just to be sure, here are the settings for Denso 660 injectors.
The correct global setting for 660cc injectors is 450/660-1 = -32%
Deadtime = 180 usec

Do you have a WB O2? What's your AFR from 3,000 - 7,000rpm?

If you don't have a WB O2, what are your O2 volts?

 

[daren_p]

Dark Horse is correct, it looks like you haven't set the global slider for those 660 injectors. You first need to set the global and deadtime (they give you approx values in the manuel) and then log your fuel trims. Once the trims are in check you then do wot pulls and adjust the rpm based sliders to get the air/fuel ratio you are looking for. If your trims are set right you should be removing fuel with the rpm sliders & not adding it. Your air/fuel ratio depends on what fuel you run and how agressive you want your tune. On sunoco 94 I tune for 11 to 1 from my wideband. I found out that the air/fuel estimate in dsmlink is pretty dame close to my WB once I have hit full boost. If you log onto the dsmlink forums, under the dsmlink support there is a sticky at the top with a post on upgrades. In this post you will find a tunning manuel which isn't covered in the regular manuel. It will give you approx rpm slider positions to get the desired air/fuel your looking for.

 

[TSIkw]

I don't have a wideband yet. My O2 readings at WOT are between .88 and .90. and I think my AFR is between 10.5 and 11.4 (I don't have my laptop in front of me right now)

I have the global and deadtime set at those values and it runs fine at partial throttle. It even feels pretty good at WOT with just a little (1.5 counts) brief knock.

Daren- Right now i have HESS 93 octane in the car.

 

[Dark_Horse]

So you have the global and deadtime set at the values I gave PLUS you're adding +26 fuel after 3,000rpm?

What are your fuel trims like?
Your O2 volts sound like they're just fine but there's no reason you should have needed to add +26 fuel and pull 2 degrees timing.

Have you done a boost leak test lately?
Are you sure you have 660cc injectors?

If yes to the above and everything checks out, have you tried resetting the ECU and starting from scratch with DSMlink?

 

[TSIkw]

I double checked my global and deadtime...they are -32 and 180. I bought the injectors from a friend so i'm pretty darn sure they are the right ones.

I looked for a boost leak about a month ago...i just used soapy water and looked for bubbles...i know that isn't a good way to do it but i don't have tester right now...i'll go get the parts to make one though.

I feel dumb asking but what are the fuel trims...i here it all the time and i'm not sure what ones they are. Also, how do you reset the ECU. I zero'd out my fuel and timing and started that over tonight and i'm getting the same readings as before.

 

[UCspyderGS-T]

I double checked my global and deadtime...they are -32 and 180. I bought the injectors from a friend so i'm pretty darn sure they are the right ones.

I looked for a boost leak about a month ago...i just used soapy water and looked for bubbles...i know that isn't a good way to do it but i don't have tester right now...i'll go get the parts to make one though.

I feel dumb asking but what are the fuel trims...i here it all the time and i'm not sure what ones they are. Also, how do you reset the ECU. I zero'd out my fuel and timing and started that over tonight and i'm getting the same readings as before.

The lo and mid-ltfts are the values that you need to log on dsmlink to give your car a base map for your injectors.This was pulled directly off the dsmlink.com website. You need to follow this:

Car must be fully warmed up then must be operated at cruise for about 10 minutes followed by idle for 5 minutes to get stable LTFT values.

Compare the LTFT at idle and cruise. You want both to be right about zero.

If the two are about the same, dead time setting is good.

If they are equal but non-zero, adjust the global setting.

If idle LTFT is more positive than cruise LTFT, increase the dead time, less, decrease.

More info is on there site at www.dsmlink.com and you need to log on to www.dsmlink.com/forums/ and read the posts on there. They help out alot, the manual on the cd does too.

 

[The_EE]

I double checked my global and deadtime...they are -32 and 180. I bought the injectors from a friend so i'm pretty darn sure they are the right ones.

I looked for a boost leak about a month ago...i just used soapy water and looked for bubbles...i know that isn't a good way to do it but i don't have tester right now...i'll go get the parts to make one though.

I feel dumb asking but what are the fuel trims...i here it all the time and i'm not sure what ones they are. Also, how do you reset the ECU. I zero'd out my fuel and timing and started that over tonight and i'm getting the same readings as before.

make one, its cheap and one of the best tools for your car.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html

 

[TSIkw]

I do use dsmlink.com...i have post on it now but haven't go much response so i put it on here. It is very helpful, i'm just so new to tuning that its alot of information to grasp all at once.

Thanks for the explaining UcSpyder. I'll check all that out and make sure its good. I'm starting to think its a boost leak though so i'm going to check that out asap. I put my RPM fuel sliders down to +15 between 3000-7000 and it's running better. I'm still getting knock but its inconsistent. I can do the same pull one time and get no knock and do it again a few minutes later and get knock.

Does that sound like a boost leak issue?

 

[UCspyderGS-T]

I do use dsmlink.com...i have post on it now but haven't go much response so i put it on here. It is very helpful, i'm just so new to tuning that its alot of information to grasp all at once.

Thanks for the explaining UcSpyder. I'll check all that out and make sure its good. I'm starting to think its a boost leak though so i'm going to check that out asap. I put my RPM fuel sliders down to +15 between 3000-7000 and it's running better. I'm still getting knock but its inconsistent. I can do the same pull one time and get no knock and do it again a few minutes later and get knock.

Does that sound like a boost leak issue?

First step zero out the sliders for the fuel and timing. Then use the steps mentioned above for the ltft values to get your global and dead time as accurate as possible. This gives you your base map. The sliders are used for "fine tuning". So get a wideband and fine tune with that. If you feel froggy and by no means am i telling you to go do this, you can use the est. air/fuel value to tune the fuel sliders. If you decide to do this you need to go to the window where it lists what to add for the logging data and right click. I think it is the preferences option you click on in the pop up menu. You then enter in the global and deadtime that you tuned for and with will estimate an air/fuel ratio for you and you can try and if you do be unbelievably careful on using this option.

If you are still getting knock out of all this then you need to figure out if it is your sensor or if it is somthing in your engine. You should not be adjusting the sliders at those high of values without a wideband.

 

[TSIkw]

Thanks for the help...really appreciate it. I'll check the global and deadtimes and go from there. If i can't get rid of the knock i'll just turn the boost down till i get a wideband.

 

[daren_p]

Your random knock could be alot of different things. For starters it looks like your running the stock smic, so what boost are you running? You haven't done a proper boost leak test, so build a cheep tester & do this. You'll be pretty surprised how many lesks you can find when you do this. As for the sliders they are for fine tunning your wot. You shouldn't touch these till you get your fuel trims where they are supposed to be. Zero your rpm sliders out. Log the LTFT for both idle and cruise, you are trying to get these as close to 0 as possible (is it 0 for 1g's as well or 100%?). You will need to adjust global and deadtime with the method ucspydergs-t stated above. Don't bother trying to adjust the rpm based sliders till you get your fuel trims where they should be. The rpm based sliders have an effect on wot or open loop only. If you don't have your base trims set properly the rpm sliders won't function as they should.

Short version: global & deadtime are to compensate for the larger then stock injectors to make them run the same as a stock injector. Rpm based sliders are used to remove fuel on your wot pulls to lean out the rich from factory air/fuel ratio.

 

[TSIkw]

i'm only running 15-16lbs of boost. It does spike up to 18 or 19lbs then comes back to 16 and holds steady there.

 

[TSIkw]

One more question....you said to display the Lo and Mid LTFT's but i'm reading the manual and right next to where you got that information it says Hi LTFT on 1Gs. So since i have a 1G do i want to use the Lo and Hi.

I see you have a 97 so I'm guessing you have to use the Mid.

 

[Dark_Horse]

i'm only running 15-16lbs of boost. It does spike up to 18 or 19lbs then comes back to 16 and holds steady there.

Do you only get knock when the boost spikes?

 

[playitlouddsm]

You are correct is noticing that you need to log ltft lo for idle and ltft hi for cruise, because you have a 1g. On 2g's the ltft mid is for cruise, you have no use for this.
-Nick

 

[TSIkw]

Yeah usually...the knock spikes with the boost and steadily declines to nothing.

It's wierd because like i said before it doesn't knock on every pull. i can pull off the line and get no knock at all. Then if i downshift from 5th-4th or 4th-3rd and rip on it i will get knock but only if the boost spikes.

 

[playitlouddsm]

Oh yeah do you have your base fp set for a 1g? If no then you need to do that before you do any of this or that will throw off everything. Set your FP to 36-38psi with the pressure refrence hose disconnected.
Good Luck
Nick

 

[TSIkw]

I haven't changed the fuel pressure since i got dsmlink and i know its sent it up for stock settings when you get it, but i will check that anyways.

 

[TSIkw]

Although i did add the 190 fuel pump. Would that change the fuel pressure or is that controlled by the FPR (which is stock since i only have the 190).

 

[daren_p]

The fpr should control the fuel pressure. This doesn't happen properly if your fuel pump is over running the stock fpr return, which will inturn raise your fuel pressure. You should be fine as this doesn't seem to be an issue with the 190 pump. Sounds like your random knocking on boost spikes is maybe intercooler related.

 

[TSIkw]

Ok...I plan i getting a FMIC but not till later this summer. I turned my boost down to 11lbs and zero'd out all my values...it looks good now. I'll also check my global and deadtimes today and start over. I'll do a boost leak test next week.

If neither fixes the problem maybe i'll have to purchase a wideband and FMIC earlier than expected. Cause whats the fun in only running 11lbs of boost

 

[Dark_Horse]

How many counts of knock do you get if you do a pull with all the sliders (except global) at zero? What are your O2 volts at with all sliders at zero?

 

[TSIkw]

When i'm running 15 to 16lbs of boost with all sliders at 0...i get 3.5 counts of knock which steadily declines like it does with the sliders up high. I only get 1.5 counts with the fuel sliders at +16.

My O2 readings are around .86 with sliders at 0

 

[Dark_Horse]

Since your O2 volts are .86 (sort of lean) with sliders at zero, you may as well revert to your old settings...At least till you do a boost leak test. Just to be safe and all...

Either you're getting a boost leak, or the injectors are smaller than 660cc.

Oh, and you'd reset the ECU by unplugging the battery for a bit. When you plug it back in, your ECU will have reset and start learning everything over again.