Good 4g63 header

[trooth]

Good to hear from you. You've got mail in return, lets get this ball rolling.

 

[xleRateGSX]

I can admit I was impressed by the product and the price does not hurt. Buying cheap only hurts you in the long run since it will break and may not be replaced by the company. Will this manifold be covered if it is ever to crack or break?

 

[FFgeoff]

If a manifold were to ever fail, send it to me and it will be repaired free of charge. EVER. I have a tig welder at both locations (NJ and AZ) and i will repair it any time. I have yet to get a manifold back, however.

 

[Team Ducktape]

http://www.turbo-performance.com/Products/Headers/all_headers.htm

 

[Geovannie]

Originally posted by Team Ducktape
http://www.turbo-performance.com/Products/Headers/all_headers.htm

Go to honda-tech.com forced performance section and search to see how many of those have failed.

The manifold may look nice, but from other peoples experience it pretty much sucks. That header does not even compare to Geoffs header.

 

[KenTSIII]

Those also look to be Mig welds.. not tig!!!

 

[NDgsx]

They are mig welds all right. Really low quality.

Wasn't this already covered on the first page of this thread? Oh yeah it was

 

[dyezak]

I've just ordered my Turbonetic's Cast manifold, Deltagate MK II, T3/T4 (V trim TO4B, .63 a/r stage III), and o2 housing eliminator to replace my archer header/19c combo. I'd be willing to do some comparison testing on your header compared to the cast manifold. The good part for you and I is I already know someone who is getting one from you (Dave down in MD, red 1g AWD) and before his turbo gets in I might talk him into a comparison test on Altered's AWD dyno.

 

[FFgeoff]

After not hearing from you i assume you have bailed? Just curious if you still want to do this...

 

[supereclipse]

Did you ever test the manifold out?

 

[trooth]

Originally posted by FFgeoff
After not hearing from you i assume you have bailed? Just curious if you still want to do this...

Nah, not really. Too much out of pocket expense for me, with what you wanted as a deposit and buying another manifold to test. Thanks for the offer, if you change your mind on what you need - reconsider my and your original offer.

 

[trooth]

Originally posted by FFgeoff
i would send you a manifold to dyno with, under one condition. If it makes power, you buy it, if it doesnt make power, send it back free of charge. I think we both know that means youll be buying the manifold.

I was down for this, but not when the offer changed. Let me know if you want to do the above.

 

[TurboSpoolinIns]

Originally posted by Team Ducktape
http://www.turbo-performance.com/Products/Headers/all_headers.htm

So these headers are shitty quality? if they are, which ones are nice? anyone hear anything about SFP's headers? or who else makes nice headers for around $400-500 for t3t4 app's other than hks & turbonetics?

 

[Team Ducktape]

I personally have had no bad or good experieces with them. I just found the link. And as this whole debate: I have not personally seen a cracked stainless manifold, not saying it doesn't happen I just have not seen one, reguardless of weld types.... Archer and other big places make them, and as for if they would crack; I'm sure the manufacuture will replace it, unless yoiu drop it but I will stick to my guns when saying you need to build the header around the turbo and the rest of your setup. Lets not just slap something on and think it will work on every setup. the header FFgeoff looks nice and I'm sure will work fine. But so will the others at half the price, and I believe what drew me into this is becasue I plainly stated I made mine for not even 1/3 of the cost of his. I can't see wasting my time and yours proving anything that works for me. The thing is most of these people who "know it all" about the supposed stainless header cracks haven't even had a turbo that needed anything besides a stock manifold anyways. Most of the info on this is from the people selling these "bolt on" headers and ofcoarse they will say everyone else's will crack and is junk, the American way acording to the DSM marketing manuel. And to just return 2 the whole weld issue it doesn't matter if it's mig or tig!!!!!!! If it's done right they both have there pluses and minuses when welding stainless. All I can say is try it, if it's crapo send it back......

 

[Black95GSX]

Originally posted by FFgeoff
If a manifold were to ever fail, send it to me and it will be repaired free of charge. EVER. I have a tig welder at both locations (NJ and AZ) and i will repair it any time. I have yet to get a manifold back, however.

Where in az are you located?

 

[980VR41k]

Today I called and talked to Damon (owner or part owner I think) from www.turbo-performance.com to ask some questions regarding their T3/T4 hybrids and their headers (due to this thread). The one question I wanted to know and asked was if they warranted their header from cracks, seeing that would be the only problem I could see with this header. The answer I got was that they don't have a written warranty on paper, but will repair the header for free if cracked on the condition that you send them the header and downpipe. The reason for the downpipe was to view for damage that would have resulted in the header cracking, not wanting to be responsible for the header cracking due to other reasons.

I pursued this statement asking why this had come about. The answer I got back was that they have had people that have bottomed out their cars forcing the downpipe toward the body which stresses the weld where the T3 or T4 flange is welded to the bottom of the collect. I’m assuming this was coming more from the larger Honda following that they do business with (lowered cars), as he had stated.

Other than cracking of the weld on the flange/collect junction from what he had stated above, he went on to say that there were no problems with cracks elsewhere. That statement would have to be taken on his word. However I personally think the header is rather decent value. The head flange is made of 0.5” plate and the tubes are made of 120 wall (0.120” thick steel if I’m not mistake on that translation). A good thing about the tubular pipes is they are all one piece without being welded in parts (weak links), from the head flange all the way to the collect, all one piece. The only part that I would be questioning would be the collect itself, it seems to be a bit thin. I specifically ask about this fact and Damon reported not having any cracking problems with it, stating that it was thinner due to expanding and contracting from the heat (not sure about the validity of that, I would still rather have a thicker gauge metal used for it).

All in all I will be considering this header if I don’t jump into making my own (fabbing equipment is available to me), depends how ambitious I am and how much cash I will have in a few months when I get my T3/T4. For the price of it you can’t go wrong and if it holds up it’s a steal (components involved seem ok, and if it does ever crack I have access to a welder to make it better than before). A few random tips from the conversation... the header sticks out around 6-7 inches from the head, comes with or without a wastegate flange (they sell the turbine housings that have the wastegate flanges on the actual housing, great for boost control), the nickel plate is for show cars typically (duh), it will turn dark bluish, but if any finger smudges get left on they with be imprinted on with heat-up of the header... he suggested to go with the black. Same goes with the chrome turbine housing, it will turn that Harley Davidson exhaust pipe blue/yellow and oil left on will imprint on it. Who needs rice anyway, save your money, hehe. Later, Jason

 

[FFgeoff]

i asked for a fully refundable $500, in the event that i didnt get the manifold back, this security deposit would cover material costs. I dont know you and i think most of us have been screwed at one point. I didnt think there would be an issue with this. Thats fine if you werent/arent interested, i was just hoping for a return email.

those turbo performance headers are crap. SFP makes a decent manifold, but its mild steel and will rust. Also their quality is hit or miss, sometimes you get a killer manifold for the price, other times its rough. Often the ports are very jagged, but can easily be cleaned up with a die grinder. Im not talkin #@%#@%#@%#@%, and i honeslty dont care if anyone buys my manifolds becuase im probably not going to make any more 4g63 manifolds for a very long time if ever again, im just being honest. 4 years ago a buddy put one of those manifolds on his civic, and upon startup the MIG WELDED (uhh yeah it matters) nickel plated header cracked. That was when the engine was started. On cyl # 3 at the top of the runner it cracked. He let the motor warm up anyway with the crack and the nickle started to drip/oooze off the manifold. nice

If youve never cracked a stainless manifold, then i highly doubt you have any real experience with them. Whether its an all motor greddy header or a manifold for a big block (not turbo manifold) thin wall stainless cracks. If you just simply disagree then you dont understand the very basics of materials science. The reason why a stainless manifold will crack long before a mild steel manifold is a phenomena called "Work Hardening" Ever bend a piece of copper or stainless back and forth and ask you bend it it becomes harder to bend but eventually cracks and breaks ???? as it gets harder and harder to bend that is called work hardening. As you bend it it becomes more and more likely to crack. Every pulse/vibration/movement is seen on the minute level to the manifold as a tiny bend. These bends make the metal harder and harder over time. Eventually it gets so hard it becomes brittle and starts to crack. Stainless work hardens much harder than standard mild steel due to the presence of chromium and nickel. This means that as it is in the car it will crack much faster than any other material. As a result stainles sis a poor choice of material from that standpoint. However stainless has many good metal qualities such as heat retention, corrosion resistance (the turbine wheel does not like chunks of rust...) and its beautiful. Enough about the stainless onto welding...

Whens that last time you saw a perfectly colored mig weld?? How long have you welded for? FYI mig welding is a steady state operation. You have no wire speed variation, no voltage variation. Tig is comnpletely variable, change the current hit the pedal, change wire speed move your hand. You can heat the metal just enough and control how quickly you push the rod in and how much goes in. MIG does not have these luxueries, point click, burn and hope. Also a mig weld is a softer weld becuase you traditionally weld it with a 75/25 mix of argon and c02. The C02 gives some helpful results, but it makes the weld a bit softer than a tig using straight argon. So what are the advantages/disadvantages of mig welding vs tig welding for stainless? Id like to hear them, educate me please.

I have made many turbo manifolds, and i work on many turbo cars. Im excited as hell that you made your own manifold for 1/3rd the price. Thats GREAT. But, guess what? Most people dont want to make their own manifolds. Most people also dont have the tools/fab skills/welding skills/machining skills to do so. Also when did i say everyone elses headers crack and are junk? The only crack here is what youre smokin. Ask anyone i deal with, ill tell things straight up. That HKS manifold is killer. Awesome manifold, just made out of a poor quality casting. If i didnt make manifolds and had a DSM id run one. Also i know it is very unsettling to you that i use a small runner diameter. The principles of turbos is that they are spooled by heat not exhaust gas velocity. Energy is energy whether it is heat energy or exhaust momentum. Bigger tubes lose heat and have slower velocities. Ill send you a CFD program that analyzes fluid flow both laminar and turbulent through contorted pipes. You might learn something, it took me all of engineering school to learn something that could easily been explained on a BBS in 1 post...

its 3:15 AM, ive made another long as hell post and i hpoe someone takes something away from this. I am not here to push my product, im here to discuss, and to stop the bullshit information dissemenated by self proclaimed know it alls that dont have a clue. Anyway the deal is off to try a manifold becuase i am out of dsm manis and wont make any more. g'night

 

[FFgeoff]

im in tempe.

 

[Z1500]

Geoff,
If you'd like a nice back to back test of your mani against a SFP, I can arrange that. Rob (black95GSX) currently has the fastest DSM in AZ and I'm putting a SFP (T3 flange) on it right now. We could do a little back to back comparo, and I'm right here in the east valley. I think if it really did make more power with all other variables being equal, you'd sell a bunch. $950 isn't bad if it makes more power. A lot of guys (not on this board) are willing to spend more for more power. Maybe AGP would be interested in carrying them

Kevin
www.agpturbo.com

 

[Team Ducktape]

Well you can say what you will about my welding skills, or my past experience with stainless, bla bla I will not argue these things. I have no one to impress nor do I need to tell you of my life thus far, nor do I need to even try to explain my background using stainless, or any-other metal for that matter. Well like I said I have not seen one crack. The ones I have made/used/bought have not cracked so it doesn't matter how long I've been around them. Like I said I'm sure it happens but I just have not seen it. Now as some has explained,mentioned the ones the Honda boys are running seem to be the ones that are "coated", the "show only" label maybe should be used on these? Also so how does the color of mig welds and your version of stainless and my welding experience have to deal with you charging way tooo much for the product you produce? I respect the fact you can make a stainless header; yea wow even some half ass welder like myself can make one, and they still work and yep you guessed it; no cracks.... So in other words you win Ooops I forgot your not making them anymore.

 

[FFgeoff]

z1500 -- i would be down if i make any more. i dont plan on it, however. I work at maxrev in mesa so if you guys are bored one night stop by, ill be back in az on aug 22.

ducktape -- it is apparent you disagree with me, and it is also apparent you dont understand the science behind manifold design when your only response is "I have no one to impress nor do I need to tell you of my life thus far, nor do I need to even try to explain my background using stainless, or any-other metal for that matter." I was hoping maybe you could share what youve learned, i guess thats too much to ask. thats fine, i will no longer discuss this with you.

btw the color indicates the quality of the weld. When a weld has the beautiful rainbow colors showing through it is indicitiave of a strong weld that is not brittle, and the chromium was not burned out by too hot of a torch. Just thought id let the other people who might not know that, know.

 

[iwantawd]

has anyone ever read Maximum Boost by Corky Bell? This manifold is perfect. its a damn shame hes not makin them anymore since i dont have my car yet, because now im goin to have to go and get it done on my own exactly the same way. This sucks

 

[Z1500]

Geoff,
Do you work for maxrev, or a partnership? Is full race your side thing
or does that have something to do with maxrev? We'll have to chat some day when you get back in AZ.

Kevin
www.agpturbo.com

 

[Black95GSX]

Kevin.. didn't Bader and that guy with the white spyder have a maxrev exhaust manifold setup?

 

[GSX]

Rob,

Yup, Bader and Mario (white spyder) both had/have the MaxRev manifolds. As I saw it, it was sort of a mitsu hybrid manifold that
started as a mitsubishi manifold and had the runners shortened
and slightly re-routed ... I believe it was Curtis fab piece.

Pete W.
97 GSX
Tucson