Going too lean passed 7500 rpm

[alqatan]

Actually I don't know how to start but I hope someone would help me so I don't blew my engine, I'm living far away from US, It's Bahrain in the middle east, we don't have dyno over here so don't ask me about my hp and we don't have good tuners over here that's why I didn't put AEM or any other standalone ECU and I'm not that good in English because English is my second language.

I'm not that intrested in 1/4 mile time but I made few runs, first run I got 12.22, second run 12.8, third run I got 11.88, my Eclipse is 1997 FWD, silver US spec.

My car is very very highly moded but the only thing I didn't install is standalone ECU as I said because we don't have tuners and the only thing I know how to use is S-AFC

I'll post all my mods so you can help me

Engine:1g stock short block+1g connecting rod+1g stock pistons+mitsubishi head gaskit+ARP head bolts+1g head+272 hks cams+crower retainer and spring+stock valve for now and stock porting+no balance shaft+set of lighter pully+cam gear which sets on zero+FRH intake+extreem motor sport ignition+1 step colder spark plug set on .8mm gap+660cc injectors+AEM fuel rail+stock fuel pressure regulator+John shippered tranny+quaife+ACT 2900 clutch with street disk+lighter flywheel+S-AFC+MAFT+JEFF stage III chip+95-96 eprom ECU+walbro 255 high pressure pump+B&M short shifter, etc i swear to god I don't remember if I have other things.

I have greddy EGT+apexi EGT+apexi boost gauge+AEM wide band+apexi fuel pressure regualtor gauge, I'm using c16 for high boost run, I have two types of tires, drag radial and offroad slicks which is 24.5*8 inch, my other street slicks are michelin pilot sport ps2 235/18/40 very good grip tires I installed them yesterday, tire rack says 9.5/10 in summer season.

I keep all the setting on the MAFT on zero because as I said I only know how to tune S-AFC, the first problem was I have two type of MAFT

1.3 and 2.01, the MAF of 1.3 seems to be bigger than the maf of 2.01, the 1.3 which I used with my old setup was fine and the setting on S-AFC was like -37% at high rpms, with 2.01 the setting is -50% which is very wiered I know this will let the timing be very advance.

With version 1.3 I should be on +25% on 1000 rpm for idle the other MAFT I should be in -25% or maybe less, this was without JEFF chip.

Now I've installed JEFF chip stage three and he rised the rev limiter to 8500 when ever the car pass the 7500 the wide band goes to 13 A/F ration and the EGT close to 980c I don't know what this is all happen I was fine with my stock ECU+the MAFT 1.3 version I'm running 30 psi with fp3065+ported evoIII manifold+40mm tail wastegate+tanabe exhaust+down pipe+big spearco intercooler the one I have to remove the fog lamp.

Actully the setting on my MAFT with version 1.3 should be 1 and 2 on, 3 and 4 off
With 2.01 1 on, 2,3,4 off

Because I have 3.5 inch maf and my 1.3 version maf is 3.5 inch and the other side is 4 inch I'm totaly lost, please try to find out why is my EGT and wide band going to high

My S-AFC setting was 1000,2000,3000,4000,5000,6000,7000,7500
Now after I rised the rev limiter I made the 7500 to 8000 because I have S-AFC1

I do have other two type of short block, wiseco racing pistons .20 over with eagle connecting rod, then I switched to stroker so I ordered 4g64 crank+new wiesco stroker pistons, It's like I'm waiting till blew my stock short block but actually I better sell it.

Please guys try to help me out as much as you can and yeah I do have logger but doesn't know how to save the logs so I can post them with my old run the timing was rising till 25 degree with 1.3 MAFT s-AFC 660 cc injectors AEM fuel rail stock fuel pressure regulator.

Now I've used the 2.01 because the 1.3 isn't mine it's my friend maft, I might put the setting wrong on 2.01 as I said 1on 2,3,4 off the other dials on zero

The only thing I added was my eprom ECU+Jeff chip because I was worried about the timing advance by the same time I changed the MAFT too 2.01

Please help me out and tell me why I'm running too lean, I thought with JEFF ecu I should be running close to zero%, I'm running like 20%, i tried to make it rich on 8000 rpm but it was the same the it stays lean.

I'm sure the 660cc didn't max out because they didn't max out with stock ECU 30 why would they max out now!?

 

[alqatan]

http://www.gulfgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8921, this is my first 12.22 run

http://www.gulfgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9023, this is my second and third run which is 11.88.

In all the three runs I had everything except the 2.01 MAFT and Jeff stage three chip.
the car run perfect in everything except running too lean after 7500

as I said I can;t install anyother standalone because we don't have good tuners.

The web site is slow, just wait for a while and you will be able to downlaod the video.

If you want to see my car pics please see my other posts
I do have bigger valve and ported head but I'll install them the time I install the stroker or I might play for a while with my 2.0 engine.

Thanks for your help, please try to read everything I really nead your help and all comment are acceptable

 

[FireyIce01]

I may be mistaken, but isn't 13:1 actually a hair on the rich side? 14:1 is an "ideal" a/f ratio, with 13:1 being rich and 15:1 being lean... I could be wrong, but I don't see a problem with it running a little bit rich at the top end, what's the a/f at prior to 7500?

 

[alqatan]

I may be mistaken, but isn't 13:1 actually a hair on the rich side? 14:1 is an "ideal" a/f ratio, with 13:1 being rich and 15:1 being lean... I could be wrong, but I don't see a problem with it running a little bit rich at the top end, what's the a/f at prior to 7500?

Nope 13:1 is lean for high boost and c16 maximum I should be in 12 mid range and 11.8 or littel bit less in high rpms, 14.7 is for cruise and idle, my mid range include the 7500 is like 11.8 maybe less I'm tuning for littel bit rich because I'm still using the stock bottom end which is danger.

Please guys help me out

 

[Mackzero]

I would honestly think you are running out of injector. I have Denso 660s and run around 94% duty cycle on 92 oct pump gas @ 24 psi. With a 3065 and 30 psi I would think you need around 780s or so. I could be wrong, but I would say upgrade those injectors and get DSMLink. (www.dsmlink.com) It is very easy to tune, and you can control timing too. Sell that SAFC as you do not need it after you get DSMLink. I am going to buy it as soon as it gets a little warmer around here.

 

[alqatan]

I would honestly think you are running out of injector. I have Denso 660s and run around 94% duty cycle on 92 oct pump gas @ 24 psi. With a 3065 and 30 psi I would think you need around 780s or so. I could be wrong, but I would say upgrade those injectors and get DSMLink. (www.dsmlink.com) It is very easy to tune, and you can control timing too. Sell that SAFC as you do not need it after you get DSMLink. I am going to buy it as soon as it gets a little warmer around here.

I guess with AEM fuel rail and 660 cc injectors I'll be still okay, actually I found out the problem when ever the rpm past near the 7500 rpm the fuel pressure drop from 5 to 4 kpa, I found this in my apexi fuel pressure, why would the car go lean after I rised the rpm level and the only thing I've changed was JEFF chip+2.01 MAFT, by the way there was a screen on the 2.01 MAFT and I removed that, one more thing I didn't rewire the pump, how can I rewire the pump?

So guys why do you think the fuel pressure drop, is it because of the stock fuel regulator with AEM fuel rail or because I didn't rewire the pump, by the way I had used the same setup and run 30 psi before and the car wasn't going lean the A/F ratio was 12:1 and I noticed one thing the timing was like 16 degree when ever the a/f ratio rise up, does this mean the car is knocking?

I think it should be 19 degree right.

Please guys I wanna race JUN evo for a top speed run, so please try your best to find out what is the problem.

Is there anyway that I'm getting alot of power because of JEFF chip+2.01 MAFT.

By the way I decreased the boost level to 25psi and it still do the same at that rpm level

Thanks

 

[ikickuintheball]

Rewiring the fuel pump can help a lot. Here's a link on how to do it: http://www.raktron.com/fuel/rewire1.html

If that doesn't fix the problem, upgrade your fuel pressure regulator. If that doesn't completely fix it, you could upgrade your fuel lines to stainless steel braided lines.

 

[Violater101]

I know you don't want to go full standalone, but I would go with the DSMLink v2 chip with maf compensation...plus you will be able to log your wideband as well as see actual knock (big plus). You definately should think about getting some bigger injectors as well as an AFPR. I was having all sorts of problems when i was running the 255HP until i got an aeromotive FPR. I can tell you that on my turbo, at 23psi with 720's with Base FP at 43psi, i see low 80's for my injector duty cycle using C16. I tune for around 12.5:1 with 21 degrees of timing.

 

[alqatan]

I know you don't want to go full standalone, but I would go with the DSMLink v2 chip with maf compensation...plus you will be able to log your wideband as well as see actual knock (big plus). You definately should think about getting some bigger injectors as well as an AFPR. I was having all sorts of problems when i was running the 255HP until i got an aeromotive FPR. I can tell you that on my turbo, at 23psi with 720's with Base FP at 43psi, i see low 80's for my injector duty cycle using C16. I tune for around 12.5:1 with 21 degrees of timing.

Well I tried my best today to fix the problem, I've removed my MAFT the 2.01 version because I've removed the screen so I thought this was the problem, then I installed another MAF which has the screen, and I got the same problem EGT rises up and the wide band rises up too, then I removed my 2.01 MAFT and return back my 1.3 MAFT and I got the same result, I went back to the stock MAF and still got the same problem and every time we change the tuning, it keep back fires the timing go back to 16 I think it has detenation that's why the timing go back that amount.

The first thing I've made I added another AEM fuel regulator and my fuel pressure was 44.1 psi, this is what apexi showed me in kpa the no was 3, I guess this is 44.1 psi, please correct me if I was wrong, I ended up using back my 97 ECU and all the troubles went away

Is there anyway that Jeff didn't do the mapping well?
Is there anyway that my setup doesn't like to have MAFT+S-AFC+Jeff chip?
The only reason I used JEFF chip to rise the rev limiter to 8500, now I can't use the ECU because the timing go fool and when ever I change the setting on S-AFC the car cuts like ignition or lean or rich effect and that'w why the fuel pressure was droping from 5 to 4.5

What is the fuel pressure should be in WOT with 2 bar?
I've heared with 255 high pressure fuel pump the idle fuel pressure should rises more, why mine remain like stock?

Thanks

 

[CanadianTSi]

I deffinitly agree with Violator, you should get DSMLink, it will make tuning much easier overall.

 

[cagri]

I don't know why you are only having problems with Jeff's Chip, it is maybe it is allowing you to run higher than 7500rpm, and stock stops at 7500??? ANd you said you are running lean right around 7500 correct?

What bothers me is that when you said you lowered the boost to 25 you still ran into same problem. It almost seems like ECU is not calculating the air flow correctly past 7500 rpm, and thus you are running into lean condition. I would lower the boost to 20psi to see if you are still having problems past 7500rpm, if you still do, then you eliminate the possibility of having inadequate fuel pump or fuel injectors. Can you also verify that your fuel pressure raises 1:1 with boost?

 

[alqatan]

I don't know why you are only having problems with Jeff's Chip, it is maybe it is allowing you to run higher than 7500rpm, and stock stops at 7500??? ANd you said you are running lean right around 7500 correct?

What bothers me is that when you said you lowered the boost to 25 you still ran into same problem. It almost seems like ECU is not calculating the air flow correctly past 7500 rpm, and thus you are running into lean condition. I would lower the boost to 20psi to see if you are still having problems past 7500rpm, if you still do, then you eliminate the possibility of having inadequate fuel pump or fuel injectors. Can you also verify that your fuel pressure raises 1:1 with boost?

Well yeah my fuel pressure rises 1psi for every psi of boost because when I was running 30 psi the fuel pressure was 5 bar, 3 bar for idle and 2 bar for the boost level but because the car was cutting and the boost level was going down I thought it was because of my fuel pressure regualtor I added the AEM and still getting the same problem, I turned the boost level to 20 psi and still getting the same problem the car is cutting and the EGT still rises up but the wide band was low, I guess timing problem.

Because when I was running my old ECU the timing was like 25 degree now the timing remain in 16, I changed the ECU and returned back as my old setting and the car feel fine.

So I think there is a problem with the chip or there might be problem with my setup, I do know that jeff is very good person actually I don't blame him for anything.

I wish the only thing I've made to the ECU was rising the rev limiter.

I do have some questions hope you can answer them
I do know the base fuel pressure for 2g is 44.1 psi which is 3 bar, I do know the fuel pressure of 1g should be 36, what is my fuel pressure should be with with 1g engine on 2g wiring and ECU?

I've heared that if I put walbro 255 high pressure pump on 2g with 1g ECU my fuel pressure should rise up like 6 psi.

What is my fuel pressure should be with 1g engine on 2g Eclipse?
I guess because I have 1g my fuel pressure should be 38 psi on idle because of the pump my fuel pressure rises up to 44 psi.

Can I lower my fuel pressure to 38 psi so when ever I go lean on the S-AFC at high rpms I don't go that lean so the timing don't go fool and very advance.

I know 25 degree of timing won't effect for 1/4 mile but as I said I wanna run 30 psi in top speed and affraid to blew the engine because tomuch timing.

The EGT rises more than 900c close to 980 but the wide band stays less than 12:1, I'm I still in safe side, should I ignor the EGT and keep my eye on the wide band?

Thanks

 

[ikickuintheball]

Set your fuel pressure to whatever stock is because that plays a big role in how the settings from Jeff's chip works. It's set for stock 2g fuel pressure (unless you tell him to set it another way).

 

[CanadianTSi]

Set your base FP to 43 and the reason your timing is alot lower is because the chip compensates for the injectors so you're not lying to the ECU as much, 16 is where it should be.