GM MAF sensor question

[Dred]

Can't you just rewire the GM MAF sensor to match DSM connector? If not why? If yes, would someone link me to a diagram of GM MAF harness and Mitsu MAF harness wires.

Thnx in advance.

 

[Dred]

K found the DSM diagram here for the 1g http://www.vfaq.com/mods/2GMAF-1G.html

Can anyone tell me what the MPI Relay is or what it does? Thnx.

 

[boostedinaz]

Can't you just rewire the GM MAF sensor to match DSM connector? If not why? If yes, would someone link me to a diagram of GM MAF harness and Mitsu MAF harness wires.

Thnx in advance.

No you cant. They use and give out a different signals than our MAF. You need to buy the translator.

 

[Dred]

I'm a DIY guy w/ an engineering buddy
Any llnks toward how exactly it's differnt would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DSMraver]

Comparison; Plugging a GM Maf directly into a DSM (if possible) would be like plugging your Honda Civic ECU into your DSM. They are two different types of sensor, GM Maf is Hotwire, DSM is Karmann Vortex.

Buy a Translator.

 

[Dred]

I can and will make my own translator, answers like buy a translator dont really help. The fact that one is karman the other hotwire is of help however, thank you.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Well, if you're asking on a DSM board about how to make a translator, you're may not be "able" to make one.

First you need to figure out the correlation between the DSM mas and airflow and temp. Then you need to do the same with the GM MAf. Then you need to figure out how to translate one signal to the other. you'll also need to do some research on what the ECU sees and how it reacts in terms of fuel to the DSM MAS signal. then you put some way of adjusting this signal such that if you max out the ecu's recievable signal you can "tune it down" and then have some other way to compensate fuel...


yeah just buy one

 

[Dred]

Well, if you're asking on a DSM board about how to make a translator, you're may not be "able" to make one.

First you need to figure out the correlation between the DSM mas and airflow and temp. Then you need to do the same with the GM MAf. Then you need to figure out how to translate one signal to the other. you'll also need to do some research on what the ECU sees and how it reacts in terms of fuel to the DSM MAS signal. then you put some way of adjusting this signal such that if you max out the ecu's recievable signal you can "tune it down" and then have some other way to compensate fuel...


yeah just buy one

Thnx. I understand that, and am actually very eager to start working on this. THe karmen vortex maf mesures the frequency in occillitation of the signal, where as the hotwire type translates the voltage difference needed to heat the heater elemet (or keep at constant temperature) and makes a calculation of how much air has entered. Granted it is a bit more complicated than this since the air temperature has an effect (in the hotwire type mafs) but once you get down to it, it's all just simple physics and engineering (Hz / Airflow and Vchange*temperatureFactor / airflow or something close to this). I never said this would be a simple task, and yes it's much easier just to go out and buy a translator.

Plus, modifying the signal to change fuel trims / pulse length is the 2nd step.

Thnx for the input. Keep em coming

 

[Dred]

UPDATE:

K slowly getting there. What I would need to make, first of all, is a chip with all the table for Hz to AirVol/min and Voltage to AirVol/min and set the chip to do the following.


Voltage Enters ----> Chip looks up the voltage on table ------> Gives out the corresponding Hz to the ECU.

Anyone any ideas, sound about right?

 

[beat90tsi]

Why are you still asking?
Buying one would be much easier, yours is not going to work as well as the real thing, unless you spend an inordinate amount of time and money developing it.
Sounds like you need to buy one, or figure this out on your own, you're the "DIY guy with an engineering buddy" why do you need us?

 

[spoolamatic]

The GM maf is a hot wire setup but the output is still a Hz out . The main problem is it is much higher and nonlinear as air mass goes up . The Karmen is some what linear in function .There is info on the net about the Hz output of the gm mass just dint remember the link for it and have seen the output for the Karmen also on http://www.stealth316.com/2-mas_liter-per-hz.htm . this is not for a 1G but it will give you a ideal of it is.
Good Luck

 

[sweet97]

The translator and the scanmaster from fullthrottlespeed are 2 of my favorite tuning components. Well worth the $195. shipped for the translator and whatever the best price is for the translator. Have you looked at the inside of a translator? It is the work of a bona fide electrical engineer. I am not knocking your abilities and even applaud your stubborn attempt to do this even though it is probably illegal due to some patent. My translator and EPROM ECU with stage 3 dsnchip make tuning so easy with the translator feeding me real tme info like 02 voltage and knock, timing advance IDC and a host of other bits of pertinent data. It will surely cost you more than $195. to get a box that even works 50% as well as the real thing. WHY? Build a cheaper wideband A/F meter and make yourself and your buddy welloff and then pursue other DSM projects like a truly good 1G short shifter. Start with that, something simple.Mark

 

[boostedinaz]

UPDATE:

K slowly getting there. What I would need to make, first of all, is a chip with all the table for Hz to AirVol/min and Voltage to AirVol/min and set the chip to do the following.


Voltage Enters ----> Chip looks up the voltage on table ------> Gives out the corresponding Hz to the ECU.

Anyone any ideas, sound about right?

I dont think to many will help you steal someone's idea. Good luck.

 

[Dred]

Thnx guys, I know it's a tough one, but I do want to accomplish the goal I've set. I can read all the sensors w/o a logger now because I know where exactly to tap in the ECU, the tuning part would be an easy task so to speak, the translator however sounds like a toughy. I think this is a fun task to take on, and if I do accomplish it, it would be worth the effort to be able to say that I did.

Why are you still asking?
Buying one would be much easier, yours is not going to work as well as the real thing, unless you spend an inordinate amount of time and money developing it.
Sounds like you need to buy one, or figure this out on your own, you're the "DIY guy with an engineering buddy" why do you need us?

-- You are an idiot.

 

[sweet97]

I dont think to many will help you steal someone's idea. Good luck.

Boostedinaz i don't think many of us COULD give him any info! There is a lot more to it than the conversion. He could always try www.fullthrottletech.com , that's the tech help forum for the translator. He could probably get info there cause they know the complexity involved. Man buy one or design some product of your own. Like I said a nice short shifter for the 1G along the B&M 2G model. mark

 

[Dred]

I dont think to many will help you steal someone's idea. Good luck.

Steal ideas?
Lets see then, every person who's ever made an MBC(for their personal use) is a thief, anyone ever made own IC pipes is a thief (you didn't come up with the idea on your own did you?) everyone who's attempted anything themselves is a thief and so on.

So sorry for not starting a "Hey guys does this tire tred look neat?" thread.

 

[sweet97]

It's tread dred. Tire tread. We would dread a thread on tire tread.
Really it's an ambitious project but a little more than an intake pipe or MBC. Could have a patent. There is a company selling kits for controlling multiple injectors called Mega squirt. The conquest guys use it for adding MPI to the TB intakes. Let's all be cool and follow along as this is more interesting than "what turbo should I buy". I like when a guy gets off the beaten path but it's just that the translator works so well and is constantly undergoing refinements that I believe it is not the best project to undertake.Good Luck Dred, spare us from the tire tread thread! Mark

 

[drivemusicnow]

the problem people have is the fact that the GM sensor for DSM use is a fairly specific idea... and i dont' know if it has been patented, however, to advertise that you're trying to copy someone elses idea, and then asking for help to do it... thats kinda shady. If you had just said, hey i made my own translator, that would be different.

Oh, and i'm pretty sure you just got your thread locked soon because of Rule number 2.

Good luck to you though.

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

I don't want to be inflamatory here, but everyone telling him to just go buy one is not helping. He obviously is not going to do that. He wants to create his own which is admirable.

Why is everyone assuming that if he succeeds it won't be as good as the available one? He may improve on it. In that case you may benefit by being able to have a better translator in the future.

It's not theft, it's ingenuity. It would be theft if he was copying the design of the original translator, but he is not. He is developing a whole new system from scratch. Are Apple's and IBM's using each others patents just, because they are both computers? Tire companies, because they both let your car roll?

And just to correct any misconception. Not only complex things can have patents. Very simple things can have patents. The boost controller analogy was right on. A boost controller is just as likely to have a patent as a translator.

And to Dred, I wish I could help, but I don't know enough about this subject. You've got my full support though. DIY is always more rewarding.

 

[Dred]

Well I've pretty much researched all the necessary "theory" information. Now it's pretty much down to trying to make the actual physical schematics of it.

What the translator pretty much does is change the Hz that the GM maf is givin out to the Hz that the Mitsu one would give out for the same airflow.

I havent yet tried to figure out if there would be a formula that would precise define the points of the two graphs (The GM MAF (hyperbolic) and the Karmen (linear)) but I have made calculations with what aproximate coefficients. All those values, as I see it, can be put into a table and resistors can modify the sensor frequency.

Thnx again for the input guys.

P.S. If you guys think i'm planning on selling this product you're absolutely wrong. I am doing this for myself, and if it's not appreciate that I would help others who would perhaps want to do the same thing, don't read this post. I am not trying to "copy" MAFT, I am trying to make one myself. If I wanted to copy it, I would buy it and take it apart, sure wouldn't be posting about it here.

And as rule #2 is concerned, beat90tsi was the one to break it first, there would be no other logical reply to his post.

 

[trbotaln]

You will never get it to work without the translator.

 

[Dred]

I think you're a bit lost. I am making a translator from the GM maf to Hz that our ECU works with for given airg volume myself so I don't need a translator for my translator.

 

[gheintz81]

IF you really want to mock a maf translator buy one and figure out how it works, then try and copy it. Otherwise you'll probably be spending a long time trying to get some rigged thing to work...2cents

 

[Dred]

IF you really want to mock a maf translator buy one and figure out how it works, then try and copy it. Otherwise you'll probably be spending a long time trying to get some rigged thing to work...2cents

That's exactly what I'm trying not to do, I want to make one on my own, not just copy someone else's.

 

[Nt-Eclipse-Dail]

Many of us Camaro owners ditch the crappy GM MAF as soon as the modding begins...
I replaced my stock GM piece with a SLP MAF. Noticeable difference in both quality and function IMO...

Why would anyone mess up a perfectly fine DSM with a GM part? I just don't understand...

I admire your spunk Dred, but take advice from a GM owner: The GM maf is not woth all the time that you will invest in this project... Just my humble opinion...
Good luck with your ride!