General Questions for Cam upgrade

[CheaCheaBoy]

I want to install new cams for my car.
It's currently a stock 7 bolt with a 20g turbo.

I thought about doing a 6 bolt swap, but money is a problem
for a struggling college student. Also I just my car to be reliable with a little umpph.
Also was wondering whats cheaper, buying a built motor or making your own?

So I am looking at the HKS and the Brian Crower Cams.
I don't know what the setup should be for intake and exhaust, 264 +266, 264 +272, 272 + 272, etc. I need your assistance for the setup because you probably have the setup and can comment on it.

Also, I took the valve cover off to do a personal paint job. Are the camshafts plug and play ? Also is it recommended to upgrade the cams also. I don't want to upgrade if it could possibly ruin the motor, with bad timing.

My goal for my car is running low 13s.

Thank You

 

[turboglenn]

With that turbo and your goals, i would personally use the same setup i bought. I got the FFWD (DKS) 264/272 combo and i love it. I still have great spool and the power band has picked up substantially. The DKS cams are the cheapest out there (400 for the pair counting the core charge) But don't make the mistake i did and use stock valve springs, mmy power falls off fast at 7k because teh valves start floating, then at 7500 it shuts down because of excessive float

And yes the camshafts are "plug-n-play" meaning there's no machining or anything required, simplty bolt them in and go.

I would replace your stock head bolts with ARPs' though. Even if you don't want to pull the head, just swap them one at a time instead of taking all the stock bolts out at once, that way you shouldn't have to change gaskets as the seal is not complletely broken in any place doing them this way Timing won't hurt you, you'll need more timing anyway to burn the extra air/fuel mix in time for peak cylinder pressure to occur (but extra timing is not required and a lot of times timing is backed down). you will need some wayt opf adding extra fuel, i didn't look at your mods list but with a 20g i take it you have some sort of tuning device. Get the cams, you won't regret them, and they'll probably be the iggest power adder since the big turbo was installed!

 

[95GSXBLUR]

What about the Brian Crower Cams?

They're low $300's a set! if you want low & mid range look @ 264/264 or a combo 264/272.. if you want mostly top end get the 272s.

Anything greater than a 272 you'll want to upgrade your springs and retainers. I wouldn't rev past 7200 with out springs/retainers either.

That's the route I'd go with cams. for sure.

 

[TalonTsi31]

With that turbo and your goals, i would personally use the same setup i bought. I got the FFWD (DKS) 264/272 combo and i love it. I still have great spool and the power band has picked up substantially. The DKS cams are the cheapest out there (400 for the pair counting the core charge) But don't make the mistake i did and use stock valve springs, mmy power falls off fast at 7k because teh valves start floating, then at 7500 it shuts down because of excessive float

And yes the camshafts are "plug-n-play" meaning there's no machining or anything required, simplty bolt them in and go.

I would replace your stock head bolts with ARPs' though. Even if you don't want to pull the head, just swap them one at a time instead of taking all the stock bolts out at once, that way you shouldn't have to change gaskets as the seal is not complletely broken in any place doing them this way Timing won't hurt you, you'll need more timing anyway to burn the extra air/fuel mix in time for peak cylinder pressure to occur (but extra timing is not required and a lot of times timing is backed down). you will need some wayt opf adding extra fuel, i didn't look at your mods list but with a 20g i take it you have some sort of tuning device. Get the cams, you won't regret them, and they'll probably be the iggest power adder since the big turbo was installed!

i have a evoIII 16g and was think ing about a mid range power cam from crower and maybe some hks cam gears.
willi see a big hp jump in this?
and will my car be faster?
how bad does it hurt gas milage ?
i was looking at maybe a brian crower 264/264 or 264/272
is it truley plug and play no timing and $h!t needed ?
thanks
pat

 

[CheaCheaBoy]

i looked at the valve ssprings. that looks like it is time consuming. who do I pay to do that job.
and if i were to do it, wouldn't i be rebuilding my motor?

 

[snowborder714]

You would have to take it to a shop that rebuilds engines or does engine work. I'm not sure if I'd trust my mechanic to do that job.

No, that wouldn't be considering rebuilding your engine. That would be doing an upgrade to your head. It can either be rebuilding (depending on how much other stuff you get done) or just refreshing it.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

a machine shop would do the spring change, as well as change out the valve seals while the head is at the shop. You can do it at home but it's not for everyone.

 

[alex99gst]

I'm not trying to jack your thread, but I feel this is relevant. When swapping cams, I have heard that some people zip tie the timing belt to the cam gears like crazy and swap the cams one at a time so they don't mess up the timing. Is this legit or did you guys have to redo the timing belt as well?

 

[90laserRSfwd]

Redo the timing... seriously, if you can't redo the timing take it to a shop. Do you trust zip ties on a $1,000 plus motor? NO you don't..........

 

[400HP1GT]

Road Race Engineering has a article on changing camshafts, They mention belt clips or nylon Tyraps (zipties) to secure belt to Timing gears.

 

[mochilli]

I just bought some HKS 264/272 cams off here for $320 (sweet deal). So after reading this thread, i should get new valve springs when i do the job? my car is 100% stock right now, i have everything laying in my room (full exhahust, act clutch set up, evo III big 16, etc) to make it go zoom zoom. I heard from people that zip ties are a good idea and if u do it properly, it should be fine! Anything else i should get besides the valve springs?

 

[phunny]

I personally wouldn't get the 272's. Just too much lobe for me. I like my car having it's nice purr. You'll lose some gas mileage, power NEEDS fuel. I don't see why you couldn't just zip tie the timing belt and do it one at a time. Good luck.

 

[mochilli]

well the 272 came wit the 264 (combo) brand new for $320, so i can't really argue at the price right?

 

[turboking15]

dont zip tie the gears, like was stated before, are you willing to trust the life of your $1000+ motor to a piece of .20$ plastic? for what to save an hour or two. doing the timing isnt that bad and if you have never done it now is a good time to learn.

 

[mochilli]

Well, if i use the zip tie, all i gotta do is make sure it stays exactly where i take it off and the teeth stay on the same place. A little concentration and i do not see how it can not work perfectly. My mechanic buddy does that all the time, he said and has never had a problem. I am not the most mechanically incline person and I need to pay for alot of the bigger installs (clutch, cams, etc). So if that guy says it will work, im going to have to take his word. Yes, i want to learn how to do everything on my car, but biggest job i've done thus far is like: brakes, taking out a rad, and oil change hahhah. so clearly, i have no experience and need to learn. To learn on the timing belt is PROB the wrong place to start as its crucial to correct installation...

 

[gsxtasy]

If your not comfortable doing your timing belt, I'm not sure you should be swapping cams yourself. No offense, I just don't want to see a post in a week that says "help, i think i bent my valves!". Honestly, It doesn't take long to reset your timing if you know what your doing. I could probably have mine in and reset in the same amount of time that I would spend monkeying around with zip ties and the tensioner rod tool and making sure they're tight and don't move, etc...

Does the zip-tie method work? Yes. Is it easier/safer? Not necessarily.

For your application, if you don't plan on going bigger and faster, I'd go for a 264/272 combo. Should work nicely.

 

[mochilli]

I wont be doing the work, ill be "helping" at best . My mechanic buddy is gonna be doing majority of my upgrades...

When i drop in the cams, will i need to tune it? Or are they drop in and drive sorta deal?

 

[dsm-onster]

Jumping timing and bending valves doesn't destroy a $1000 engine. Use the big black prism paper clips. Works like a charm.

Nor does hks 272s have so much lope that they don't idle similar to this. These are fp2Xs, nearly identical duration and a little more aggresive cam timing.

 

[mochilli]

Jumping timing and bending valves doesn't destroy a $1000 engine. Use the big black prism paper clips. Works like a charm.

Nor does hks 272s have so much lope that they don't idle similar to this. These are fp2Xs, nearly identical duration and a little more aggresive cam timing.

Finally someone who confirms that it does work (tieing the cam gears to the belt) - i was getting worried, but i do trust my mechanic buddy and since your clearly knowledgable, i will do that. Thanks

I have the 264/272 combo (or will have when it arrives). So it wont idle that loud probably...i wish it would though

 

[dsm-onster]

It idles loud because I have no cat, 3" exhaust from the turbo, and nothing but a resonator can (glass pack) and resonator tip. Considering my high flowing turbine wheel, the note is pretty quiet. But yea, it hits hard. The "rumble in your chest" is felt up stairs in a room opposite the driveway. It never did this with the stock cams. The fp2Xs brought this on.

 

[mochilli]

ohhh man i cant wait: ill have 3" full exhaust as well...with a cat and no resonators. Im doing all the upgrades at once. All i need now is cat-back, full pump, AFPR, injectors and a DSMlink and i can make 350 at the wheels pretty easily from what i read. Its gonna be great going from stock -> monster

 

[dsm-onster]

BTW, I've gotten 33 miles per gallon with these and a STOCK tune as an average for the tankfull.

 

[mochilli]

Up here in Canada EH!, we use Litres, so i dont know if thats good or terrible? haha Give me what an average car should be, then tell me yours..

 

[dsm-onster]

8.7 miles per litre. 14km per litre. 53.1 km per gallon.

 

[mochilli]

8.7 miles per litre. 14km per litre. 53.1 km per gallon.

I heard when you get cams your gas mileage goes down, so i am assuming that is not good? What's a stock DSM mileage like?