Turbo & Cam upgrade question

[eazy2g]

Hi guys! I just bought the new FP HTA68 (hasn't come in yet) I also want to get some cams. I think I want 272/272 but I also saw the FP 4R Cam set. And I'm also reading that's its "recommended" to change springs? Is it really?

My goal is to build it once and right, its a DD right now.

What do you guys recommend?

 

[SonySlave]

Well, the FP4Rs are a direct replacement to the FP2x, which was a pretty aggressive cam setup. If you are only looking for a 272-style cam, I would just hit up the standard FP2s. They work EXTREMELY well and will murder the HKS 272s every day of the week.

However, if you do decide on the FP4Rs, then investing in any upgraded valve spring set would be beneficial, whether it be the FP Beehives, Crower singles (NOT BRIAN CROWER!!!!), Manley singles, etc... I talked with Robert at FP about this exact situation and he said he wouldn't run stock springs with the 4Rs and that he only put that message in there because it's possible, just highly not recommended. On a FP3065 setup on my friend's car, the FP4Rs made a 26hp increase over the FP2s with just the cam change.

So, I'd say go FP2s if you don't want to change springs or get the FP4Rs and the FP Beehive valve springs.

Also, this is why you don't want the Brian Crower valve springs (friend's car revving to no more than 8k):

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[eazy2g]

Cool! Thanks for the info man! I think I'm going to go FP4Rs and the FP Beehive valve springs!

That broken spring, is that the same Brian Crower that makes the "not recommended" cams?

 

[SonySlave]

Cool! Thanks for the info man! I think I'm going to go FP4Rs and the FP Beehive valve springs!

That broken spring, is that the same Brian Crower that makes the "not recommended" cams?

Yep, exact same company! I wouldn't run BC products if they were GIVEN to me!

 

[95eclipser]

Yep, exact same company! I wouldn't run BC products if they were GIVEN to me!

haha +1 i agree.. i have fp4's and i will be running them with kiggly beehive springs, and retainers.. but it wont be a DD

if you want a fast dd i would recommend hks 272, or fp2's

gl man

 

[eazy2g]

haha +1 i agree.. i have fp4's and i will be running them with kiggly beehive springs, and retainers.. but it wont be a DD

if you want a fast dd i would recommend hks 272, or fp2's

gl man

Actually its like sometimes a DD. I'd also like to track and drag it sometimes too...

Not really sure how to explain its status without sounding weird about it!

 

[BeatupVR4]

After checking FP's website please just go with the FP2's. The 4x's seem way too extreme for you. The set-up involved plus the fact that it says right on the site that they are recommended for 50+ lb/min turbo's (HTA68 = 47 I believe) screams that they are not for you.

A spring upgrade is highly recommended though. Even a set of used Evo stuff would be good. A friend ran sub 11.4s on his stock Evo head with 280's shifting at 8500. I also run an all Evo valvetrain in my 2G head.

 

[eazy2g]

After checking FP's website please just go with the FP2's. The 4x's seem way too extreme for you. The set-up involved plus the fact that it says right on the site that they are recommended for 50+ lb/min turbo's (HTA68 = 47 I believe) screams that they are not for you.

A spring upgrade is highly recommended though. Even a set of used Evo stuff would be good. A friend ran sub 11.4s on his stock Evo head with 280's shifting at 8500. I also run an all Evo valvetrain in my 2G head.

I saw that its recommended for 50lb and I will have 47, but can you explain why I shouldn't?

I was planing to upgrade my springs if i do get them.

I dont get it, your friend ran 11s with his EVO that has practically a stock head with 280s? And your DSM head has all EVO internals? I know evo parts are stronger but whats the point?

 

[jking29]

The Evo uses beehive springs with aluminum retainers. Because of the beehive design the retainers are much lighter and the weight that your valvetrain sees is much less. Lighter weight with comparable spring rates = higher safe maximum engine speed.

 

[eazy2g]

The Evo uses beehive springs with aluminum retainers. Because of the beehive design the retainers are much lighter and the weight that your valvetrain sees is much less. Lighter weight with comparable spring rates = higher safe maximum engine speed.

I see.

But what about my other que? Also does porting the turbo increase the lb/min?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

I see.

But what about my other que? Also does porting the turbo increase the lb/min?

A smaller turbo has lower lb/min which mean it operates in the lower powerband and spools quicker and vice versa to a bigger turbo. So, I wouldn't recommend going to the FP4R either on a 68HTA. There are too aggressive and their powerband doesn't fall in sequence.

And porting the turbo help flow, but doesn't increase the turbine lb/min.

 

[eazy2g]

A smaller turbo has lower lb/min which mean it operates in the lower powerband and spools quicker and vice versa to a bigger turbo. So, I wouldn't recommend going to the FP4R either on a 68HTA. There are too aggressive and their powerband doesn't fall in sequence.

And porting the turbo help flow, but doesn't increase the turbine lb/min.

Okay so back to my 1st que then, 272/272 will be okay for the hta68? Will i get to max the benefit of both the cam and the turbo with a good tune? Should i still consider changing springs?

I just want to make sure I'm picking up the right stuff and not just buying sh!t because it sounds or looks cool to have....

I will have a local shop do most of the installs and dyno tune.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

272/272 will be perfect for the 68HTA and you won't need new spring or retainer, but I'd lower the redline.

Why you getting it installs and tuned? EIP or FFTEC?

 

[eazy2g]

272/272 will be perfect for the 68HTA and you won't need new spring or retainer, but I'd lower the redline.

Why you getting it installs and tuned? EIP or FFTEC?

lower redline from stock? I thought I would want to increase?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

That's not going to happen with more aggressive cams and stock valve springs and retainers. It will be safer to limit your redline to about 7000-7200 and I'm no sure about the 68HTA power range, but you shouldn't have any loss being limited to only 7000-7200.

 

[eazy2g]

I see. I'm still new to DSM so apologies in advance for all my newb questions..

I really appreciate all your input and help!