Gains vs Losses with SMIM for small 16g

[spadepro22]

Im thinking about getting a smim for my 1g 7bolt and I want to know what I would gain vs what I would lose(basically is it worth getting one). Im running a small 16g. Check my mods for my setup. Also is there a smim that I can bolt-on and go without changing throttle body or anything?

 

[white92talontsi]

You will sacrafice a lot of driveability with the SMIM.
You will lose a lot of off boost power.
You can get any SMIM you want flanged for a stock throttle body if you wish.

 

[brian9397gsx]

You will loose a little down low, but I doubt you'll notice it. Ive driven my friends talon with a 16g and jmfab intake and honestly its not that noticeable

 

[spadepro22]

You will loose a little down low, but I doubt you'll notice it. Ive driven my friends talon with a 16g and jmfab intake and honestly its not that noticeable

Gain on anything?

 

[91stocker]

The record holder for the stock block 6 bolt uses the stock intake manifold. They're running 630whp. I believe the stock mani doesnt start to choke flow till after 6400rpm. The 16g makes peak before then.

Not to say that theres not an aftermarket mani that shows gains on the 16g but the $600+ might be better spent somewhere else, not sure where you are on your mod progression.

 

[clipto]

Not worth the the upgrade at this point in time on your setup imo.I am runing stock 6 bolt intake manifold making 550whp on one of my 2g's.I would spend your money on something else.

 

[brian9397gsx]

I would have to agree not worth it. That's kinda what I was getting at it wasn't noticeable

 

[Tiki2777]

You should think about getting a turbo cyclone intercooler, it gives you more low end power by closing off some of the runners until it hits a certain psi. The only problem with it is you have to fab up an actuator to control the butterfly valve for the runners, which were originally controlled by an ecu. Really, it's not that hard, cheaper, and it will actually give you more power with your setup.

 

[spadepro22]

You should think about getting a turbo cyclone intercooler, it gives you more low end power by closing off some of the runners until it hits a certain psi. The only problem with it is you have to fab up an actuator to control the butterfly valve for the runners, which were originally controlled by an ecu. Really, it's not that hard, cheaper, and it will actually give you more power with your setup.

You mean intake manifold?

 

[jpdsm92]

16g turbo it's NOT needed.. only time i feel you need a smim is when you got a laggy turbo and need more breathing room up top

 

[skatershawn]

You should think about getting a turbo cyclone intercooler, it gives you more low end power by closing off some of the runners until it hits a certain psi. The only problem with it is you have to fab up an actuator to control the butterfly valve for the runners, which were originally controlled by an ecu. Really, it's not that hard, cheaper, and it will actually give you more power with your setup.

Second that, its not an intercooler. it may say "intercooled" on it but thats just a word describing the intercooled turbocharged system.

Its not "some" of the runners, there is actually two sets of runners, one set being shorter than the others. The butterfly valves divert air through one of them at low RPM's and when you hit around 5k the actuator kicks the valves to divert the airflow through the other set.

But yes its a bit of an upgrade, but the 16g is all fine on its own. It spools fast and holds up top for a good while.

 

[Arthris]

You should think about getting a turbo cyclone intercooler, it gives you more low end power by closing off some of the runners until it hits a certain psi. The only problem with it is you have to fab up an actuator to control the butterfly valve for the runners, which were originally controlled by an ecu. Really, it's not that hard, cheaper, and it will actually give you more power with your setup.

He has DSMlink so he can control the butterflies with the ecu by using the FPR solenoid. And its not boost that should activate it. Its RPM. JDM stock is 4200 RPM. Trust me I know. I have one. Its amazing. But mine isnt working correctly but with the butteryfly's closed its soo much better to drive. Much more low end trq

 

[99gst_racer]

So, when is a SMIM considered a worthwhile upgrade? At what rate of airflow? I see many people going to SMIM's that are flowing under 50 lbs/min on turbos like T04e 50-trims and HX35's. If it's OK to run a SMIM on a 50-trim car flowing 44 lbs/min, then why not a 16g car flowing 44 lbs/min?

(Sorry, just playing devil's advocate here)

In my opinion, it would heavily depend on the application whether or not a SMIM is warranted. For your 13 psi DD, probably not. For the guy running 30 PSI and squeezing the little compressor for everything it has, sure why not. There's many people pushing close to 400 WHP on the little 16g, and there's gains to be had from an improved intake manifold at that point.

Furthermore, it depends on which manifold in question. Some monsterous manifold with a 5 or 6 liter plenum is surely overkill, but something like a Magnus Street or Hawver could be a reasonable and worthwhile upgrade.

 

[gsxeclipse97]

Well wont he notice more of a loss being a 1g due to lower compression? I had a cyclone when I had my 1g head. But even with the cyclone the 2g head still has more low end with the evo 3 itm. So I wouldn't switch to a smim but I like having the lowend power personally.

 

[91stocker]

Do you think the low end losses would be worth the small hp gain up top on a 16g street car with stock cams?

Personally i think cams and IM upgrade should match and happen at the same time. They both should also match the turbo used.

Most dont run a 16g at 30psi for very long, especially on a street car.

 

[99gst_racer]

^^^ Agreed. Which is why is heavily depends on the specific application. That's also why it not always correct to say a SMIM is overkill for all 16g cars.

 

[91stocker]

That's also why it not always correct to say a SMIM is overkill for all 16g cars.

True. I tried a quick search to find any real results with a 16g and a smim. I know there are some "street" versions out there.

 

[spadepro22]

Im running 18psi(22 at times boost creep). From this thread, it still seems to be a loss, oh well. I just dont like the look of the stock intake, but if I would lose performance with a upgrade then I'll just deal with it.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

This is much like the cam or turbo "streetability" arguments.

Everyones definition will be different.

Personally, I would go with the SMIM. Just take advantage of it, raise the redline (within capability of your valvetrain) till it stops making power.

Then increase boost.

It's not like you are out for competitive RR/Auto-X, a little drop in low-end grunt won't be a big deal. Besides the 16G will pick up the slack in the mid-range.

 

[skatershawn]

Im running 18psi(22 at times boost creep). From this thread, it still seems to be a loss, oh well. I just dont like the look of the stock intake, but if I would lose performance with a upgrade then I'll just deal with it.

Do what you will with your car man. Its yours! We were just trying to give you advice on it. I mean I think a stock one can be taken far but if you are looking to livin up you engine bay with a nice smim, I would look at getting a street smim. No harm in it, if you loss power you can fine ways to make it up!

 

[spadepro22]

What could be done to make up the lost low end?

 

[91stocker]

I just dont like the look of the stock intake,

They clean up really nice to be honest.

I sand blasted and hot tanked mine, prepped and painted it flat aluminum, repainted the back lettering black and used a scotch brite on the lettering plate.

Looks much much better imo.

 

[Reefman]

^^I was just going to say this after viewing your profile pics. If it is just the look of the manifold you don't like then why not make it aesthetically pleasing to you? I mean you have options to match it to your VC so why not go that route?

 

[91stocker]

What could be done to make up the lost low end?

Downshift

But really, mild cams and a "street" mani probably wont hurt street-ability all that much.

Just when you get the drag combo's going is when it becomes harry. Large turbo, race cams, race mani, heavy clutch. Thats when it becomes no fun to drive anymore haha.

^^I was just going to say this after viewing your profile pics. If it is just the look of the manifold you don't like then why not make it aesthetically pleasing to you? I mean you have options to match it to your VC so why not go that route?

A little more time into it would help as well, like cleaning up the casting marks and etc. The little details i regretfully skipped over on mine.

 

[spadepro22]

^^I was just going to say this after viewing your profile pics. If it is just the look of the manifold you don't like then why not make it aesthetically pleasing to you? I mean you have options to match it to your VC so why not go that route?

I thought about that, but Im not mechanically inclined to take mine off and put it back on That does look nice tho The motor shop said labor was like 3 to 3.5hr at 75 bucks which is waaaay to much for a look