Fuelab afpr

[ishnish]

Hey guys, I am now just starting to make some money and I'm really looking into buying some supporting mods for my car to boost. I want to get an afpr by fuelab I just don't know which one to get. I see there is a 515 series, 525, 535, 545, and a 565 series. Exactly what would make the 565 better than a 515? I don't really know much about the subject so I decided to ask on here. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[bmoha7321]

This thread has been more informative than I expected.
Geez 2150s! This whole thread leaves me feeling wholy inadequate with my FIC 550s. Granted I am running 93 octane pump gas @ 21 psi max on a FP Big T28.

 

[clipto]

Have you ever made a vehicle over 1200whp? And tried to make it streetable? This is where dual rails come in handy.

Dual fuels are great however. Many people use water or meth injection to cool their engine temps down, yet you could just as easily run say E85 on a secondary fuel system. Now you will have tons of extra fuel, and power potential.

Personally I used a dual system on my dakota. Primary was Seimens 880cc injectors for street use. The motor was a mopar R3 block based on a 360ci small block. Bored and stroked out to 427 CI. bored .128 over. It was siamese bored which allowed me to bore it that large. Max was .150 over. I ran 8.5:1 CR on it and made over 700rwhp on motor alone. It had a compound turbo setup remote mounted where the bed of the truck should have been. Cut out the floor and mounted the turbo's up higher. at 12psi it made over 1100whp. tried for 30psi, but could not get it to hook on slicks. Truck scared me and I sold it. New owner back halfed the truck and made over 1500rwhp.

the 880's were for street use and no boost. when boost kicked in, a set of 1850cc injectors would kick in with E85. Those were only for boost and allowed some fun power to be made. was never able to get the truck dialed in above 12 psi cause I could not get it to stay hooked up to log or anything. I used an AEM standalone for my tuning. I used the dual injector setup to give the truck some street manners and keep from having light switch power. The second set of injectors however were simply setup for all or nothing.

No I don't plan on make 1000hp it's pointless to me.All I am saying is 100-800hp there should be no issue idling on big injectors on the right fuel type oviously not on pump gas.But the only time I have not seen it idle right is becuase the tuner wasn't that good.

 

[ishnish]

I'm a little late to the party, but here's my input.

The 98/99 ecu won't do everything that ECMLink will. The ones saying this are overgeneralizing.

There are guys running 2150's on the 98/99, and they say they run fine. There's the same deadtime and injector size compensations in the 98/99 software as ECMLink, but there isn't the individual injector compensation that ECMLink has.

I'm only running 680cc injectors and they were fairly easy to dial in.

If you're considering using the 98/99 ecu, I suggest you download ECUFlash and the Ceddymods pack. The pack includes the file that gets flashed to the ecu and a file that lets ECUFlash know how to interpret it. Look at the features that you can change and see if this will do what you want. No one has heard from Ceddy (the main 98/99 ecu guru) so don't hold you breath for an update if you don't see a feature.

The point is you made it knochgoon24. Thank you for coming through.

I am considering using the 98/99 ecu only because it's so much cheaper and because of the over generalizations that it does what link does. But this has now been an eye opener for me. I was leaning towards the 98/99 ECUflash until you mentions that no one has really heard from Ceddy which kind of makes the hope for future updates pretty slim. Time to look into ECUflash vs Link

This thread has been more informative than I expected.
Geez 2150s! This whole thread leaves me feeling wholy inadequate with my FIC 550s. Granted I am running 93 octane pump gas @ 21 psi max on a FP Big T28.

It has been very informative indeed! Yeah I started with 1000's and might be ending with 2150's hahaha

Also, about injectors. I'm starting to look up high impedance vs low impedance. Anyone know the difference?

There are probably pros and cons to each and I'm guessing the type that one wants to run depends on his/her application.

 

[snowborder714]

Here's the deal with idle issues. A user on here (calan) has a set of FIC BlueMAX 1350's and was having some issues with them. He was using a single deadtime to control all 4 injectors. He sent them in to ECMTuning so they could run them through their injector testing station. This will analyze them using DSM electronics and not generic electronics that injector makers use, which obviously will produce much more accurate numbers. He got his injectors back with individual deadtimes (ECMlink can control these per injector) and noticed a big difference in how the car ran.

The injectors that between 1200cc and 1600cc are the typical culprits of having some issues down low, whether it's idle or cruise (one or the other usually isn't great). But after getting a set of these injectors tested once ECMTuning starts providing this service will make them perform much better. So if you want to wait for them to make this an option (hopefully very soon) until you purchase injectors, then you could go with any size that will support your final goals.

Hopefully this clears up any confusion about why we recommended jumping from 1150cc to 2150cc.


Also, please ignore any of the dual rail info. While it may hold some truth (I didn't read through any of it), you do not need more than 4 injectors.

Low impedance will require you to run the injector resistor box, where high impedance doesn't need this. That's about all you'll really need to know.

 

[ishnish]

Here's the deal with idle issues. A user on here (calan) has a set of FIC BlueMAX 1350's and was having some issues with them. He was using a single deadtime to control all 4 injectors. He sent them in to ECMTuning so they could run them through their injector testing station. This will analyze them using DSM electronics and not generic electronics that injector makers use, which obviously will produce much more accurate numbers. He got his injectors back with individual deadtimes (ECMlink can control these per injector) and noticed a big difference in how the car ran.

The injectors that between 1200cc and 1600cc are the typical culprits of having some issues down low, whether it's idle or cruise (one or the other usually isn't great). But after getting a set of these injectors tested once ECMTuning starts providing this service will make them perform much better. So if you want to wait for them to make this an option (hopefully very soon) until you purchase injectors, then you could go with any size that will support your final goals.

Hopefully this clears up any confusion about why we recommended jumping from 1150cc to 2150cc.


Also, please ignore any of the dual rail info. While it may hold some truth (I didn't read through any of it), you do not need more than 4 injectors.

Low impedance will require you to run the injector resistor box, where high impedance doesn't need this. That's about all you'll really need to know.

I appreciate you dumbing this down for me VERY much.. Idk if I will wait for them to make this an option. You, being one of the peopl on this thread that has helped me out the most, also suggested jumping up to 2150's IF I plan to run something bigger than a 16g (which I plan to do). So far I think I'm gonna go with 2150's . Really, I appreciate your time. This definitely cleared up a lot.

So if low impedance requires me to run the injector resistor box, wouldn't the logical decision be to run the high's?

 

[knochgoon24]

But why run 2150's when if a set of 1150's will do just fine? I mean, why cause yourself potential problems for no reason? It's not like you wouldn't be able sell the smaller injectors if you do plan on going bigger down the road.

 

[bmoha7321]

I have to agree. I bought the injectors best suited to my turbo. Next turbo bigger injectors. Injectors seem to be something you can always find for sale used at pretty good prices.

 

[91stocker]

But why run 2150's when if a set of 1150's will do just fine? I mean, why cause yourself potential problems for no reason? It's not like you wouldn't be able sell the smaller injectors if you do plan on going bigger down the road.

Thats what i was trying to say haha. Even 1150's will support more then the stock bottom end. 66lbs/min on e85 is no joke.

 

[bmoha7321]

I guess more is more. Why settle for 1150s when you can get 2150s? Why settls for 1 fuel rail when you can have 2? Heck why not put in a 2nd motor while we're at it.

 

[Calan]

Here's the deal with idle issues. A user on here (calan) has a set of FIC BlueMAX 1350's and was having some issues with them. He was using a single deadtime to control all 4 injectors. He sent them in to ECMTuning so they could run them through their injector testing station. This will analyze them using DSM electronics and not generic electronics that injector makers use, which obviously will produce much more accurate numbers. He got his injectors back with individual deadtimes (ECMlink can control these per injector) and noticed a big difference in how the car ran.

I'll also add that the injectors were still drivable; just not optimal. I was having some lean misfires at low RPMs and the car was pretty hard to start on E85 below 40* or so.

Now that I know the actual dead time values for each injector at different voltages, they are MUCH smoother, and perform on par with any of the smaller injectors I've run in this car.

It's not like you wouldn't be able sell the smaller injectors if you do plan on going bigger down the road.

I agree with this, for injectors that are 1150cc's and up. Injectors smaller than this won't be worth much second-hand, as there just isn't as much demand for them anymore.

BTW - I ran Brian's FIC 1150s while mine were being tested, and they are some really nice injectors.

 

[ishnish]

But why run 2150's when if a set of 1150's will do just fine? I mean, why cause yourself potential problems for no reason? It's not like you wouldn't be able sell the smaller injectors if you do plan on going bigger down the road.

Cause it sounded like 2150's wouldn't give me potential problems .

You guys all have me arguing with myself now haha. All good points, I just didn't want to have to drop money in later again for injectors that are larger.

 

[clipto]

Cause it sounded like 2150's wouldn't give me potential problems .

You guys all have me arguing with myself now haha. All good points, I just didn't want to have to drop money in later again for injectors that are larger.

If you are planing to stick with the 16g for a while there great turbos I mean if your motor isnt even built yet and it is stock don't even start looking at anything bigger then the 16g.With that noted You will be fine with 1000cc-1150cc injectors.If you run E85 all the time you should be fine with 1650cc injectors but should just be fine with 1000cc injectors and the 16g.Every build should consist of ecmlink, boost gauge, boost controller, wideband, fuel pump, afpr, injectors, front mount intercooler and exhaust.After that it's whatever but those are the main things to worry about then can get into other stuff, but really that is all you need done besides maintanace.

 

[ishnish]

If you are planing to stick with the 16g for a while there great turbos I mean if your motor isnt even built yet and it is stock don't even start looking at anything bigger then the 16g.With that noted You will be fine with 1000cc-1150cc injectors.If you run E85 all the time you should be fine with 1650cc injectors but should just be fine with 1000cc injectors and the 16g.Every build should consist of ecmlink, boost gauge, boost controller, wideband, fuel pump, afpr, injectors, front mount intercooler and exhaust.After that it's whatever but those are the main things to worry about then can get into other stuff, but really that is all you need done besides maintanace.

Thanks Clipto. I do plan on keeping it for a while but not very very long. Well I'm slowly getting parts to build up my motor as well which is why I wanted to go up with injectors. But if 1150's really will be enough even when I up my turbo, only then will I get them. It's the idle thing that snowborder was talking about that pushed me towards the 2150's. Still thinking about it though. I have almost everything on the list except for boost controller, link, and injectors. I might purchase the boost controller within the next few days along with a fuel pump rewire kit. Then it'll be time to save for injectors and tuning stuff. Those two things I'm still disputing which to go with . Oh I forgot about ARP studs as well.

Maintenance is definitely getting knocked out of the way. Since I'm getting the ARP headstuds put on, I plan to get the timing belt and water pump changed. Was thinking about balance shaft removal but idk if I should just replace the belt and wait for rebuild time to then eliminate the balance shaft. I can't do these myself so idk what the cost would be and what would be the better choice.

 

[clipto]

Thanks Clipto. I do plan on keeping it for a while but not very very long. Well I'm slowly getting parts to build up my motor as well which is why I wanted to go up with injectors. But if 1150's really will be enough even when I up my turbo, only then will I get them. It's the idle thing that snowborder was talking about that pushed me towards the 2150's. Still thinking about it though. I have almost everything on the list except for boost controller, link, and injectors. I might purchase the boost controller within the next few days along with a fuel pump rewire kit. Then it'll be time to save for injectors and tuning stuff. Those two things I'm still disputing which to go with . Oh I forgot about ARP studs as well.

Maintenance is definitely getting knocked out of the way. Since I'm getting the ARP headstuds put on, I plan to get the timing belt and water pump changed. Was thinking about balance shaft removal but idk if I should just replace the belt and wait for rebuild time to then eliminate the balance shaft. I can't do these myself so idk what the cost would be and what would be the better choice.

Well I made 550whp with a pte 62/62 with 1650cc inejectors and E85.So unless your planning that type of goal you won't need to worry plus you will need to do alot more before thinking of making that kind of power.So you deffinetly will be good with just those in my previous post.

 

[snowborder714]

Please note that I suggested 1150's or 2150's. It's just the stuff in between that's not as nice as those two sets

 

[ishnish]

Well I made 550whp with a pte 62/62 with 1650cc inejectors and E85.So unless your planning that type of goal you won't need to worry plus you will need to do alot more before thinking of making that kind of power.So you deffinetly will be good with just those in my previous post.

Yes I understand how much more needs to be done in order to make such power. 550 is a huge number btw great job! My plan is to push it as far as I possibly can . Short term is 350-400 hp but long term is different.

Please note that I suggested 1150's or 2150's. It's just the stuff in between that's not as nice as those two sets

Oh yes of course definitely did not forget that one. I remember you stating the known issues with the in-between =)

 

[clipto]

So to best answer your way the fp3052 is ganna be best for you to be 400whp range.The 16g you have now is great and with the supporting mods we mentioned will get you in the 300whp range.

 

[OLDGREG]

So for running with the 16g the beat injectors are the 1150's?

 

[clipto]

So for running with the 16g the beat injectors are the 1150's?

You really will be fine with just 1000cc injectors and a 255 fuel pump.Just get it on the dyno and max out the turbo till you don't get any knock you will be set.

 

[OLDGREG]

Got the pump. Need the afpr. And what if u want to run e85 later on the 1650's? Or straight to 2150's?

 

[clipto]

Got the pump. Need the afpr. And what if u want to run e85 later on the 1650's? Or straight to 2150's?

unless u plan on making like 600whp u don't 2150's.If you plan on running E85 u can get a fpr but you really don't need one if your a gst like me.If you stick with the 16g you really only need 1000cc injectors even if you run E85.

 

[OLDGREG]

I thought it was minimum 1600 when running e85 I guess I'm wrong. And yeah I'm pretty sure I'm sticking with the 16g not sure about the e85 yet anyone have an opinion?

 

[clipto]

So unless you plan on driving your daily driver with E85 all day you will be fine with 1000cc injectors.Sure you can run like 1200cc if you stick on E85 but the 1000cc will be suitable for your 16g.The E85 will make the 1000cc injectors act like 650-750cc injectors due to the type of fuel it is.E85 uses like 33% consumption apose pump gas.So you will be fine with 1000cc injectors.

 

[jcarmichael]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...1680cc-high-z-installation.html#post152883302

if you go with high z injectors like the 1150's 1680's or 2150's you may want to look into, this post just asked about it last week. snowboarder gave me the easiest and best solution to the installation. only mentioning this because you have to delete the resistor pack. also with all the talk about e85 high z injectors would be the best route to go.

 

[ishnish]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...1680cc-high-z-installation.html#post152883302

if you go with high z injectors like the 1150's 1680's or 2150's you may want to look into, this post just asked about it last week. snowboarder gave me the easiest and best solution to the installation. only mentioning this because you have to delete the resistor pack. also with all the talk about e85 high z injectors would be the best route to go.

Found this link very helpful. Thanks jcarmichael!