Fuel system upgrade setup?

[hopwoodp]

I'm running -6an for feed and return. Now i'll have to get a -6an fuel filter right. What's a good fuel filter. And what are the fitting sizes for the stock fpr.

Mr. Gasket makes a good inline. You can also go to summitracing.com or jegs.com and search inline filters. Try to get one that has 10 microns. 35 microns will be ok but try to get the one that can filter 10 microns.

 

[4UH8ERS]

This is a 10 micron, not too cheap, but a good one.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.p...f5&PHPSESSID=8d5a0ce5dfbf865c8c18f4081dd0d1f5

If you don't mind the 35 micron, go to ebay and search earls 6an fuel filters. They got some good ones for cheap.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Good luck getting those 660's to idle.
I don't think the AFC will suffice.

 

[4UH8ERS]

Good luck getting those 660's to idle.
I don't think the AFC will suffice.

What are you talking about? He said he is going with 440's now.

BTW: 660's where never mentioned in this post. They where originally 680's before we talked him out of it and he changed his setup.

 

[Blitzeclips]

What are you talking about? He said he is going with 440's now.

BTW: 660's where never mentioned in this post. They where originally 680's before we talked him out of it and he changed his setup.

Well, now that I look at it. There are a few things I don't understand..

If he's opting for 8psi until the motor booms, why is there 440cc injectors on the list? The stock injectors can handle 8psi no problem. Not only that, but with 12:1 ratio, you can't even boost past 8psi. So, that and the addition of the NEO I don't get..

Now let's say he wants 15-20 psi (as stated) when the motor does go boom. Half the things on that list become irrelevant. The injectors. 440's will not support 20psi. Period. The SFMU may be good up to 16 psi or so, I honestly wouldn't trust it after that. You advance timting while under boost, (12psi+) and you can say bye bye to that valvetrain, and probably the motor.

Lastly, seems like the list is set for a future set-up rather then the planned 8psi until motor blow. You can throw the 440's, SFMU, discs, and NEO off the list. A standard FMU and stock injectors will be fine. Then, when the motor does go, you don't have extra parts to swap out, and that were of no use while at 8psi. I'd say when the motor goes, then you can invest that money for the NEO, SFMU, and AFPR for Portfeuler. If you don't want the portfueler, I'd say you need to get larger injectors and keep it below 16psi with that SFMU.

Just my .02...

 

[cs82685]

If he's opting for 8psi until the motor booms, why is there 440cc injectors on the list? The stock injectors can handle 8psi no problem. Not only that, but with 12:1 ratio, you can't even boost past 8psi. So, that and the addition of the NEO I don't get..

Sure they can, but some people don't like running the ridiculously high fuel pressures associated with using the stock injectors. Plus it's also nice to know that if something were to happen to your wastegate or vac source to your wastegate while boosting, that at least if you over boost the car will be supplied with plenty of fuel and maybe save you from destroying your motor early.

The SFMU may be good up to 16 psi or so, I honestly wouldn't trust it after that. You advance timting while under boost, (12psi+) and you can say bye bye to that valvetrain, and probably the motor.

I don't know if I would really want to do it either, but there have been people who've ran 20+ psi with SFMU 550's and SAFC

Lastly, seems like the list is set for a future set-up rather then the planned 8psi until motor blow. You can throw the 440's, SFMU, discs, and NEO off the list. A standard FMU and stock injectors will be fine. Then, when the motor does go, you don't have extra parts to swap out, and that were of no use while at 8psi. I'd say when the motor goes, then you can invest that money for the NEO, SFMU, and AFPR for Portfeuler. If you don't want the portfueler, I'd say you need to get larger injectors and keep it below 16psi with that SFMU.

Just my .02...

Not bad advice, you can save yourself money. I think it moreso depends on your plans. If you are planning on keeping this setup for a couple years before building your motor then I'd say go with the sfmu and injectors. Or if you are planning building now and waiting before going with big boost and something like MS or the Portfueler the SFMU will still let you boost a decent amount. I think if you're going to want more than 15psi soon, then I would do what blitz said and put that money towards a portfueler. SFMU, AFC will run you a decent amount that could be used for the portfueler. As for the fuel lines, you're going to replace them whether you go sfmu or portfueler, so I wouldn't include them in the saving money by doing one over the other.

 

[Blitzeclips]

'I don't know if I would really want to do it either, but there have been people who've ran 20+ psi with SFMU 550's and SAFC'

The odds of the timing advancing under boost is greater then vacuum failure where additional feul is needed. Even then, at 12:1, there wouldn't be adequate fuel supply to save anything. 12:1 is going to regulate 12:1 whether the injectors are 550's or 230's.

440cc's look and sound like a tempation for pushing more boost.

I personally know people who have run 8 psi with stock injectors for years with no problems. Ask Thom over on 2gnt.com, he's been using stock ones for almost 3, 4 years now.

 

[4UH8ERS]

'I don't know if I would really want to do it either, but there have been people who've ran 20+ psi with SFMU 550's and SAFC'

The odds of the timing advancing under boost is greater then vacuum failure where additional feul is needed. Even then, at 12:1, there wouldn't be adequate fuel supply to save anything. 12:1 is going to regulate 12:1 whether the injectors are 550's or 230's.

440cc's look and sound like a tempation for pushing more boost.

I personally know people who have run 8 psi with stock injectors for years with no problems. Ask Thom over on 2gnt.com, he's been using stock ones for almost 3, 4 years now.

Blitz, I'm trying to give the boy some options. With a 12:1 FMU and stock injectors he does not really have options. The portfueler was already mentioned by me and he did not even comment on it so I guess hes not very interested in that. He obviously wants versatility and thats exactly what i was trying to help him achieve so there is nothing wrong the set-up that was advised.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Thats fine and all, but adding a list of parts isn't going to increase the options.

He's still on a stock motor. A stock motor can only handle 8-10psi tops. You can add every tuning device in the world, but the bottom line is, you cannot exceed 8 psi. Period. SFMU, FMU, SAFC, injectors, they are all still limited to 8psi of boost.

I can see he is trying to plan for the future, but with a stock motor there really is no point in buying ALL that stuff, if he plans to upgrade the boost, and motor in the future. You cannot utilize the components on that list with 8 psi.

The extra items on that list only come into play after a motor rebuild, or once you go past 8-10psi.

 

[DSMcrazy3]

I wouldn't recommend him away from the S-FMU. You can run 10 psi on a stock block with the correct fuel supply. If his plan is to boost it til' he blows it, then rebuild surely it will be built to handle more boost. In which case it would be better that he already has those larger injectors and S-FMU, to allow him to take advantage of his boost ready block. Just the way I see it.

 

[silver95RS]

Ok i'm only looking to only running 8psi on my stock engine for awhile hopefully a year or 2. Then when i rebuild everything then i'm going to go to 15 to 20psi.

The reason why I haven't commented on the portfueler is because i had not read anything on it and after reading the megasquirt manual and reading up on the portfueler i think i would rather go with the portfueler seems less complex. So with the setup we've come up with I can run that for my 8psi and then after i rebuild everything use the portfueler for my 15 to 20psi. This is the turbo i'm going with T3 50 trim #PTE SC-5031E.

 

[totaleclipse_05]

He's still on a stock motor. A stock motor can only handle 8-10psi tops. You can add every tuning device in the world, but the bottom line is, you cannot exceed 8 psi. Period. SFMU, FMU, SAFC, injectors, they are all still limited to 8psi of boost.

Search AWDDYNAMITE, he was running 16 psi for a year on the stock engine before building it. Granted it took lots of tuning, but it's possible.

 

[cs82685]

Search AWDDYNAMITE, he was running 16 psi for a year on the stock engine before building it. Granted it took lots of tuning, but it's possible.

I think it's worth mentioning he was using a portfueler and spent time tuning on the dyno. And if I remember correctly he was running 100 oct all the time. Not sure on that though

You can add every tuning device in the world, but the bottom line is, you cannot exceed 8 psi. Period. SFMU, FMU, SAFC, injectors, they are all still limited to 8psi of boost.

Huh? They are not limited to 8psi. With stock injectors you're basically limited to 8psi. But still it all depends on the turbo being used. 330's or 440's and he can run whatever their limit are if he wants. Sure the engine's probably not gonna last but you make it sound like any fuel setup would limit him. Plus you just said this....

He's still on a stock motor. A stock motor can only handle 8-10psi tops.

As far as I can tell 10 > 8.


The extra fuel capabilties definetly can make it tempting to turn up the boost b/c you have the fuel to do so even if the bottom end isn't built.

'I don't know if I would really want to do it either, but there have been people who've ran 20+ psi with SFMU 550's and SAFC'

The odds of the timing advancing under boost is greater then vacuum failure where additional feul is needed.

I apologize I forgot to mention he was also using something to control ignition

 

[Blitzeclips]

Huh? They are not limited to 8psi. With stock injectors you're basically limited to 8psi.

Bah! Corey, you know what I meant. The sentence directly after you're bolding caption is what I was implying.

Let me rephrase this: YOU are limited to 8psi per stock block. These units will not be utilized until after you push past 8psi..


"With stock injectors you're basically limited to 8psi.." EXACTLY. So how does a SAFC, SFMU, or FMU with 12:1 disc help you obtain higher boost? The injectors are defaulted to useless because of units chosen.

That's why I'm saying wait until he can upgrade the motor before you buy all that stuff..

 

[4UH8ERS]

Oh definately, If your going to be running 8psi for a year or 2 thats a pretty long time, and I would definately discourage the 440's then. Why your at it, ditch the AFC as well because you will not need to dial down your idle fuel pressures with stock injectors.

 

[Blitzeclips]

/light sheds on my previous post/

 

[silver95RS]

Walbro 255l fuel pump kit
fcd (fuel cut defender)
stock injectors
Vortech SFMU
SS fuel lines and fittings
10 micron
Fuel pressure gauge
configuration #1

Ok so this is what we've come up with to run on my stock engine now and for 8psi of boost when I install my PTE T3 50 trim turbo. So i won't need the APEXI AFC how about when i go turbo? Then when I rebuild my engine and trany to handle whatever i throw at it step up to portfueler for running 15 to 20psi. And if your curious as what I have in mind here is my setup. And please let me know if you see any holes in it or recommendations your might have.

Engine
Connecting Rods Eagle STD Length Rods
Pistons JE .020 8.8:1
Oil Pump Melling High Volume
Rod Bearings STD Rod Bearings
Main Bearings STD 96-99
Water Pump ITM Water Pump
Timing Components PCI Timing Belt Bearing, AF/X 30% Underdrive Pulley with timing belt
Head Bolts ARP Head Studs
Main Studs ARP Main Studs
Head Gasket Cometic .020 Headgasket
Gasket Kit Full Kit
Crankshaft Reman Crankshaft Kit w/bearings 96-UP
Prothane Complete Mount Kit

Head
• New Valve Stem Seals
• PEP Stainless Valves +1mm
• 5 Angle Valve Job
• Crane Valve Springs w/Titanium Retainers
• Fully Decked Head Surface
• Stage 2 Porting
• Hot Tanked & Pressure Checked
Crane Turbo Grind Cam
Unorthadox Racing Cam Gear

Fuel
Walbro 255 fuel pump
.SS fuel lines
SFMU vortech
FCD
configuration #1 fuel line setup
stock injectors for now
portfueler after rebuild
55MM THROTTLE BORING (do you know of a place i can send my intake manifold to have ported. I've found a place that will bore my thorttle body and match the top intake but they don't say anything about the runners.)

Turbo i'm building my own kit.
T3/T4 turbo exhaust manifold
PTE SC-5031E (T3 50 Trim with stage 3 turbine wheel)
tail 38mm wastegate
Greddy Type RS BOV
.SS oil feed and return lines
FMIC
Greddy PROFEC B SPEC II
Greddy turbo timer

ignition
MSD coil pack
8.5mm sparkplug wires

Gauges
AEM wideband A/F
Autometer (Cobalt)
fuel pressure
Boost
EGT
Oil Pressure
Volts

Transmission
Mopar clutch conversion Kit
SPEC Aluminum Stage 2 Modular Clutch Kit
(what should i do about my transmission it has 146,000+ is there a rebuild kit I can buy and have my local trany shop install it? I seen the one for shelton/tre but i'm not wanting to ship my trans. off and have to wait for it.)

 

[cs82685]

Basically what people are telling you is you don't need the sfmu and ss lines now, you can just get a regular fmu for $100 instead of spending 300-400 on an sfmu with ss lines. If you would like to do -6an ss lines all around (tank to rail, rail to sfmu, sfmu to tank, then I would suggest looking into getting a fuel rail with 6an fittings on the ends of it. I know one of the mods on 2gnt sells them once in a while. He actually has one for sale now)

Also IDK if you're aware of this or not but looking at your list you have sfmu and portfueler in the same list. Once you go portfueler, you will get rid of the sfmu and get a regular 1:1 fpr. Also it comes with secondary injectors so your stock injectors won't be replaced you will just have 8 injectors instead of 4.


Looking back, if you're thinking of going portfueler definetly just keep your stock injectors. You can run either a sfmu or fmu with them if you want, but there's no sense in upgrading injectors to take them out and put the stockers back in along with the secondaries when you go portfueler.


As for the AEM wideband, I've heard mixed reviews and I don't recall if you can log with them. I would look into the zeitronix especially now that they will have a standard 52mm gauge available and you can have add all the bells and whistles to it if you want at once or over time. This includes boost sensor, egt probe, warning light, etc.

 

[4UH8ERS]

If you buy the SFMU now, you wont need to get the portfueler when you raise the boost to 15psi, just different injectors.

Put it this way. If you want versatility with cost effectiveness then buy the SFMU and use it now and when you raise the boost. If your all about quality and simplicity then just stick with the bare minimum which is a 12:1 fmu and and a walbro 255. Then When you upgrade buy the Portfueler system. Is any of this sinking in?

You see When you go to portfueler you change to an aeromotive 1:1 and the fmu or sfmu (whichever you chose) is no longer needed. If you have an FMU and your boosting at 8si on the stock block then you decide to rebuild you have to buy the portfueler or an sfmu to raise the boost up. If you have the SFMU at 8psi on the stock block then you rebuild and want 15psi you can just buy injectors only and just change the disk and spring in the sfmu so no other parts are needed. So just make up your mind for sure whats important to you and we can help out more.

p.s. I probably just confused you even more.

 

[dsmclipse97]

I agree with Blitz. the FMU, 255 walbro and stock injectors are all he should need for 8psi until he rebuilds the engine with forged everything and goes for 15-20. when you start trying to go past 8psi things get really really expensive and you need way more experience than i, or silver for that matter, have.

 

[Shadow98]

Thats what i'm running as well 255 lph hp pump, 12:1 FMU and stock injectors. When I build my motor I will go with the portfueler, so the only thing I will need to remove will be the FMU. It's the cheapest way to do it in my opinion.

 

[totaleclipse_05]

Thats what i'm running as well 255 lph hp pump, 12:1 FMU and stock injectors. When I build my motor I will go with the portfueler, so the only thing I will need to remove will be the FMU. It's the cheapest way to do it in my opinion.

You will need bigger injectors as well. Also, I don't know how you can say $1000+ is cheap haha.

 

[silver95RS]

I believe what i'm going to do is go with the fmu 12:1 for my stock engine at 8psi and after rebuild i'm going with the portfueler.

 

[dsmclipse97]

You mentioned the Greddy Profec-B AND and a greddy turbo timer... someone correct me if im wrong but i thought the Profec-B came with a turbo timer built in? Just pointing that out so you didnt accidentaly spend an extra $100 when you didnt need to.

 

[Shadow98]

You will need bigger injectors as well. Also, I don't know how you can say $1000+ is cheap haha.

What I ment was you'll being throwing away less money in the end, because the only thing you're discarding is the FMU.