Fuel and spark, no start.

[popwarbunny111]

Ok. I bought a Misubishi Eclipse GSX From Mississippi. The guy told me that the car ran great, BUT the only thing was that you had to Prime it so it would start because the fuel pressure regulator was bad. Well i know now that was crap.

I Primed the car and drove it home from Mississippi, about 400 miles back to Indianapolis. The car would start after driving it and when the engine was warm it would continue to start.
When the engine was cooled down, I would have to prime it to get it to start.

I replaced my fuel pump with a 255 maybe thinking that it would have been a problem, but it still doesnt seem to want to start. I have done a spark test to see if i was getting spark, I looked at my spark plugs to see if they were bad but they were good. I also pulled off the fuel line and cranked it and thats how i know its getting fuel.

The car will crank and crank, seemed like it wants to start but just keeps cranking.

so im getting fuel and im getting spark. I just dont understand why it wont start.

 

[Demon33]

Take a look at the coolant temperature sensor (the 2-wire sensor to the ECU not the single wire gauge sender). I've heard that under certain conditions a faulty CTS can cause the car not to start. I believe the ECU richens the air-fuel mixture when the engine is cold and the only way it knows it's cold is through the CTS.

Also, verify that your base fuel pressure is between 36psi and 38psi. A bad fuel pressure regulator could possibly lower the base pressure enough to prevent you from starting when cold. Cold fuel doesn't atomize as easily as warm fuel and low fuel pressure can add to the problem, as the injectors need a minimum fuel pressure to efifciently atomize the fuel.

 

[steadman1988]

Try using a noid light to make sure that the injectors are firing. Just because there is fuel at the rail doesn't mean the computer is telling the injectors to pulse. If this is the case I would test the CAS next.

 

[kenamond]

I've heard similar things about a bad CTS, but I don't understand why it would work once warmed if the CTS is bad. Might still be it; I don't know enough about CTS-related problems.

If the CAS is dead, the car won't run, but when mine died, it was a slow process; it'd work if I jiggled the CAS plug wire. In your case, it seems more related to engine temperature and cold starts, but it might still be a CAS on its way out.

I'd check compression. Compression is much lower when cold. If your warmed-up compression numbers prove to be low, then compression for cold-starts will be even lower, and this can lead to problems with cold-starts.

I'd do all the basic tests and see if anything turns up.

Good luck!

 

[Demon33]

Try using a noid light to make sure that the injectors are firing. Just because there is fuel at the rail doesn't mean the computer is telling the injectors to pulse. If this is the case I would test the CAS next.

I agree that even with fuel pressure at the rail, if the injectors are not pulsing (due to a bad CAS) the car will not run or start for that matter and there would be no spark which the OP states is present. However, the OP was able drive it 400 miles without problems as long as the engine was warm. The no start problem only occured when the engine cooled down. The fact that the engine starts and runs when it is 'primed' indicates that the injectors, ignition and CAS should be good.

I would pull the CTS and check its resistance at various temperatures. Check the service manual for the correct test procedure and CTS specs. A new CTS from your local auto parts store should cost about $20 plus or minus a few.

To the OP- does the engine run at high idle when started cold? If not, I would consider looking at the FIAV, as this is supposed raise the cold engine idle speed until warmed up.

 

[luv2rallye]

The guy told me that the car ran great, BUT the only thing was that you had to Prime it so it would start because the fuel pressure regulator was bad. Well i know now that was crap.

When the engine was cooled down, I would have to prime it to get it to start.

Why are you so insistent that it's NOT the FPR? You just described the classic case of a slowly leaking FPR: after a period of time (during which naturally it cools down) you have no more fuel pressure and just crank and crank. You then have to prime it with fuel to get it started: fuel starvation. A properly functioning FPR should maintain pressure for hours, even days, after engine is turned off for exactly that reason: so there's immediate pressure for the next start. I suggest you connect a fuel pressure gauge to see if pressure drops during the next hour after engine is turned off.
Granted it could be something else but from your symptoms, the FPR is the prime suspect IMO. The seller may have been telling you the truth.

 

[MaNGiNa24]

I'd at least try to replace the FPR if that's what he claimed was wrong.

If I'm not mistaken, faulty caps on the ECU could also cause intermittent starting issues as well.

 

[Demon33]

Why are you so insistent that it's NOT the FPR? You just described the classic case of a slowly leaking FPR: after a period of time (during which naturally it cools down) you have no more fuel pressure and just crank and crank. You then have to prime it with fuel to get it started: fuel starvation. A properly functioning FPR should maintain pressure for hours, even days, after engine is turned off for exactly that reason: so there's immediate pressure for the next start. I suggest you connect a fuel pressure gauge to see if pressure drops during the next hour after engine is turned off.
Granted it could be something else but from your symptoms, the FPR is the prime suspect IMO. The seller may have been telling you the truth.

Although I wouldn't completely rule out the FRP there are many aftermarket AFPRs that bleed fuel pressure down to zero shortly after shutting the engine off. I have a SX AFPR that goes to virtually zero pressure within seconds of engine shut down. It takes me a couple of extra seconds (about 5 sec.) to start the car with no fuel pressure, but certaily not like what the OP describes. I agree that the OP should verify the proper operation of the the FPR with a gauge to help narrow down the possible root causes.

Another thought just came to mind- the fuel filter. It could possibly be restricting fuel flow if it's old and dirty even with the added pressure and flow of the new 255lph fuel pump that was recently installed.

 

[MaNGiNa24]

Although I wouldn't completely rule out the FRP there are many aftermarket AFPRs that bleed fuel pressure down to zero shortly after shutting the engine off. I have a SX AFPR that goes to virtually zero pressure within seconds of engine shut down. It takes me a couple of extra seconds (about 5 sec.) to start the car with no fuel pressure, but certaily not like what the OP describes. I agree that the OP should verify the proper operation of the the FPR with a gauge to help narrow down the possible root causes.

Another thought just came to mind- the fuel filter. It could possibly be restricting fuel flow if it's old and dirty even with the added pressure and flow of the new 255lph fuel pump that was recently installed.

+1

I also had to deal with this problem with an older oldsmobile and the symptoms are similar to the OP's.

 

[popwarbunny111]

I changed my fpr thats how I know its not that. I will change the coolant sensor and see what happens.

 

[habitatguy187]

This is my buddies car and I was also wondering about the fuel filter but doubted if it could be that clogged. I guess it could be. I just thought it's weird how it will start with starting fluid.

 

[nkosi]

hey i think luv2rallye is correct it is the fpr i would check the fuel pressure to make sure its 36-38 psi.

 

[habitatguy187]

hey i think luv2rallye is correct it is the fpr i would check the fuel pressure to make sure its 36-38 psi.

He changed his FPR with a brand new one.