FP red overkill for the street??

[brandon19761]

Ok, so I am outflowing my FP T28 now and ran across a killer deal on an FP Red. I know this turbo is capable of some huge power and can get you into the 9's. My question is: Does anyone know how responsive it is? I would be running it on a GST with an lsd and DR's so I get decent traction, but probably wouldn't even come close to running it in it's efficient range without massive wheel spin. Too big for the street??

 

[kahl23]

Not really I would say. IIRC the FP Red is a 60-1 compressor wheel mated to a TD06H turbine wheel in a 7cm^2 Mitsubishi housing, imagine it as a 20G/60-1 hybrid, both of which are run on the street fairly commonly, although both are getting slightly outdated. Yes, people have run 9's on the red, but it's by no means a full race only turbo; you can hang it off a stock manifold, its not exactly a GT42/BW374/HX52 etc. I would venture a guess that the extra lag would result in less wheelspin rather than more, as when you are launching it from a start you would presumably be running DRs and on the street you could have plenty of fun rolling on the power. I hope you have intercooler and fuel upgrades for this Red, it should be a good time

 

[JusMX141]

Does anyone know how responsive it is?

On a stock motor, quite lazy. Expect full boost to be on the high side of 4500rpms.

You'd probably want a built motor with an extensively ported head and sheet metal intake manifold to make good use of the added airflow and RPM's needed to make that turbo shine. What would happen on the stock motor is you'd be limited to 22psi generating something ridiculous like 40 lb/min with a powerband of 4500-7200rpms. You'd be better off with an Evo III 16G with those numbers.

If you think you'd be happy with 3000rpms of useable power, then the Red is for you.

 

[kahl23]

I'm curious here, why would he be limited to 22psi/40 lb/min on the stock motor? I agree that the stock intake mani would be a restriction in the higher RPM range but I see no reason why stock internals would limit him to such low pressure/flow.

 

[eder-loco]

Werd,
On my recent setup ( scm 6152e )
I was at 23-24Psi pushing 49lbs.
on stock block, stock head, just some 272s.
6 bolt.

 

[JWoodley]

The Red hits really, really hard.

 

[eder-loco]

, I had a friend with one.He mentioned the turbo liked to be on racegas most than pump. or a small shot of nitrous. He also had it on a dsm.

 

[Stapl3]

Friend of mine had a 60-1 back in '99. This was the turbo that got me into DSMs. That car was so much fun, and we only played with it on the street. Real neck snapper. :

If I remember correctly, Al Blaha ran his 1g at 10.5 @131 back forever ago on a 60-1 with a stock DSM engine and a hacked 1g MAS. Not exactly a "red", but a 60-1 nevertheless.

The real question is if you like long strong pulls or n\a power with some crazy power after a certain RPM. Answer that, then you can figure what's "streetable" for your DD street car.

Both are fun.

 

[Stapl3]

Also, I remember reading the 7cm^2 housing was WAY more fun on the street and gave similar top end compared to the 8cm^2 turbine housing. Just something to keep in mind if going for a street geared setup.

 

[mach4g63t]

Yea, it might be a little lagier than some smaller turbos. But honestly, full boost by 4500 or around there isn't that bad. Sure, 4500-7500 is a second or two in gears like 1st and 2nd, but for roll-ons through 3rd and up it's a very hard, dragging pull into your seat that you'll be a lot happier with. FWD's are rollers on the street/highway and a beefy turbo like that will most definitely make you appreciate that.

My G60, untuned, is seeing full boost by about 4200-4300 (around the same area) during roll ons, and after feeling a 18psi pull I wouldn't trade it for ANYTHING smaller. It's definitely made me a fan of the laggy, kick you in face later kind of spool up.

 

[DiamondStarAwd]

Your really not limited to 20 psi. Back before a local built his 2.4 we were running his car with a stock motor ( over 100k on it ) with a fp red. 32 psi, pump gas with alky injection, stock motor with cams, and awd.

This car rolled out, hard, really hard. Full boost was mid-high 4's

 

[dsm-onster]

Guys, Justin is talking about the op's 7bolt motor. All of you are talking about 6 bolt motors. Theres about a 100hp difference in the average strength of a 6bolt vs. a 7bolt. Yes there's 7 bolts that have seen 520whp and not blown. So what. There's 6bolts that have seen 600whp and not blow. The median number of max reliable power lies at about 400whp for a 7 bolt and 500whp for a 6 bolt. The fpred is not a good turbo for the stock 7 bolt block. It can't handle the potential of the turbo and there are smaller faster spooling turbos that can break the 7 bolt block. . . And 6 bolt block.

 

[JusMX141]

Correct, Monster.

I was always under the impression that "bigger wasn't always better" when it came to choosing the right size turbo for your engine and desired powerband. If that's not the case, then why stop at the Red? I think a GT37R would be a fine choice.

The 60-1 compressor and clipped TD06H turbine are going to spool really slow for the street and probably will not give you the powerband you're looking for. The Red is designed to run over 25psi on cars that are modified to handle revving to 8k. As I said before, if you're looking to make power from 4500-redline, that's fine....but most guys aren't a fan of major lag- especially when there are turbos out there that will provide you with a more user-friendly powerband for a stock engine.

You have a T28 now, which is comparable to a Small 16G in terms of flow and spool. Imagine adding about 1500rpms of lag to your powerband....on the street you'd NEVER feel the turbo, unless you drive around in second gear everywhere.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it....I just want you to realize what you'll have once it's on your car so you won't be disappointed. If you're seriously planning on building your car anyway, then this turbo may work out great for you. If not, you got a great deal- you may be better off selling it and buying something you'll put to better use.

 

[Boug]

I'm always seeing words used like "responsive" in hopes of explaining "streetable". But what does "streetable" really mean? I believe that it's subjective at best. Most guys to inquire about if a turbo is "streetable" is at the point of consideration of a larger turbo. That, to me, is an indication that whatever turbo is chosen, its responsiveness is going to decrease due to its larger size. By "streetable" are we referring to light to light sprints, highway rolls, passing cars on congested one-lane roads, etc.? Drivers are all different and my thinking is that a person is just one downshift away from being in the powerband of the "larger" turbos (i.e. - higher than 20G). Due to the FP Red being a hybrid of sorts with the 20G/60-1, how could its powerband be pushed to the left is what I'm wondering (i.e. - no cams, lower boost, stroker engine)? Full boost on the high side of 4500 RPM with a powerband of 4500-7200 sounds really boring but really is that much of a difference when one considers that a 20G reaches full boost at roughly 3500-3800 RPM, right? Does 1000 RPM make that much of a difference when you have a turbo that flows considerably more? I agree with the head work being needed and with the addition of springs/retainers, there should be no issues increasing the powerband up to the 8500 RPM mark, right? I'm keeping the future end of my build in mind (2.3L) as every upgrade will support the turbo therefore increasing its efficiency. I'm interested in getting a FP Red and I'll have to run the turbo on pump/91 until I address my fuel system set up as it's still stock minus a 255-lph fuel pump which is fine with me as I know that E85 is going to be a part of the equation. I've rode in an EVO with a GT35r on meth and although the car seemed pretty tame under normal driving, once the boost hit, I was all smiles and totally forgot about the "lull" in between. It was by far one of my best experiences with the EVO and now I'm looking to replicate that.

 

[JayRolla]

Ive always heard people say its lazy and it wont work out but everyone I know thats ran one has done well. I know at least two people that made 450-500whp on dynos here on e85 on lancers and red turbos, stock motors with cams at most. Once your in the power band it doesnt stop.

 

[Boug]

Ive always heard people say its lazy and it wont work out but everyone I know thats ran one has done well. I know at least two people that made 450-500whp on dynos here on e85 on lancers and red turbos, stock motors with cams at most. Once your in the power band it doesnt stop.

Are you talking about turbo'd Lancers or EVOs? I know the FP Red on the EVO (especially with E85 or meth/alky) is just a beast. I rode in an EVO8 with a FP Red on pump/93 and it was at full boost (roughly 26-28PSI) before 4500 RPM. I'd like to stay in the 25-30PSI range on E85 to see how the turbo does on my 1G. I just hate seeing (reading) posts about how it's old technology as that might be very much true. My thinking is that even if it is old technology, I can just keep getting it rebuilt (should it come to that) since it's a journal bearing turbo who's capability I'll never exceed.

 

[turboglenn]

streetable is all about what you can deal with in your own opinion in your DD. I have a 57 trim with undoubtedly the laziest wheel there is in the t04e housing and doesnt' hit the 27psi i run daily untill about 4700 or so in the first couple of gears. So it really comes down to how you feel about revving your engine. I love motorcycles and i'm use to keeping them in "the powerband" when i need to be darting and mobbin out. If you drop into 2nd gear at 45MPH without hesitation and aren't scared to hold the pedal till about 8k RPM then you'll probably be fine.

With some recent cam timing changes and going to a larger exhaust housing, i hurt my spool big time and lost some low end (even more than previouse) but after i got use to keeping the engine up about 1k RPM's higher than i usually do, it was like i had been driving it like that forever

having a narrow and high powerband can be fun, especially when you're roasting both fronts in posi with the LSD on the interstate in 3rd , but it can be hell in stop and go traffic whenyou'rea leaving the light at 3k to not stall... (i also run the 8lb fidanza flywheel on my DD which most don't consider "streetable" but i can drive it to where i have no issues... so all in all "streetable" is really about what you can put up with in your DD

 

[bsbllfit7]

what is the spool up of the red on a stroker. Say 2.3

 

[Boug]

If you drop into 2nd gear at 45MPH without hesitation and aren't scared to hold the pedal till about 8k RPM then you'll probably be fine.

I love how that sounds!

For the spool-up on a 2.3L, if it's estimated that full boost on a 2.0L is in the 4500-4800 RPM range, then a safe guess would be somewhere around 4100-4300 RPM but there are many variables that need consideration.

 

[WhiteAWDtsi]

Ive always heard people say its lazy and it wont work out but everyone I know thats ran one has done well. I know at least two people that made 450-500whp on dynos here on e85 on lancers and red turbos, stock motors with cams at most. Once your in the power band it doesnt stop.

That's the truth, once it spooled theres no bullshit with rpm bands. I have a gvr4 with a fpred that hits 22psi at 4200 with 264's. Bought it this way, not tuned the best by any means, no wideband etc. Once you have that bad bish spoolin theres no stopping it as long as you have a good transmission and driver mod.

Stutterbox launch, and no lift shifts = a long powerband. It's a drag turbo and a bad mother fer on the street if you can handle it. I'll be getting a bb turbo eventually as I still like throttle response. haha Soon I'll have methanol injection and 30 lbs of boost. We'll see how much the stock trans likes that.

 

[red1993gsallmt]

what is the spool up of the red on a stroker. Say 2.3

i had one on my stroker years ago, it came on strong at about 4800rpm but my hx40 comes on alot harder at 5000rpm and pulls way harder up top!!! i run 28psi with only 11* of timing on 93 pump and this turbo out does the red in every way

 

[JOEY A]

Like most of the big sized old turbos pump gas isnt good for them


Most of the older style stuff gets going on high boost and race gas

This is why people used to say that they were un streetable and race only

Eh ive got a SC61 mated to a full race manifold, its decent for being at waste gate pressure

But since its my daily im going to ditch it for somthing smaller that makes wider power on pump gas




GT30 with a .63 is the street king right now!

Spools faster than a 20g and make 40hp more! With great throttle response

Are you talking about turbo'd Lancers or EVOs? I know the FP Red on the EVO (especially with E85 or meth/alky) is just a beast. I rode in an EVO8 with a FP Red on pump/93 and it was at full boost (roughly 26-28PSI) before 4500 RPM. I'd like to stay in the 25-30PSI range on E85 to see how the turbo does on my 1G. I just hate seeing (reading) posts about how it's old technology as that might be very much true. My thinking is that even if it is old technology, I can just keep getting it rebuilt (should it come to that) since it's a journal bearing turbo who's capability I'll never exceed.

Twin scroll sure makes them alot better than what we have






If you encounter alot of stop and go traffic your gonna hate lag....


I know for me that being late for work stuck in traffic trying to get some were fast and having a lazy turbo isn't fun. Even if you down "shift" you still dealing with lazy throttle response and a narrow power band.



I used to not mind lag and was a power monger but my needs are different now