Forward facing filter "Important Info"

[boost97gst]

I think its a matter of pride for you, Kel. At this point no amount of reasoning is effective. All you know is you performed action A and got result B. I just dont want you to keep this up too much more. Just ignore the thread, come back, post up some numbers and be done with it bro.

Just my opinion and you know what thats worth.

To others: Please, by all means, if you perform the test and have measurements/specs(data) please post anything you find.

 

[Fejery4491]

Contrary to popular opinion yes I am a very good reader! Pressure was on the money for whom?

It was perfect for me.

Certainly not on the money for me that's why I modified mine!

I like this. In your particular setup you "needed" the additional oil pressure. You've admitted that that it isn't a "one size fits all modification" likes you've stated below....

Yeah they're just as ignorant as everyone else in this thread and I still stand behind my claim in post#1. I feel sorry for anyone who run this housing unmodified. Shame!

Yes we saw a big difference in oil stream at idle which has nothing to do with were pressure is read from.
Nobody's twisting your arm dude run the housing the way you want. Nothing was disproved you want it to be but sadly it's not. Darren sent out pm's and had some of his buddies to challenge the thread because of a stock pile of ffofh that aren't selling. But you know what people will still wonder and stay ways from it and they are the smart ones!

NEWS FLASH! Forward Facing Filter Housing is Bad News unmodified!

This is an emergency forum alert and should be taken with the utmost seriousness!

You are on the click also? Shame shame shame! Your words here is another attempt by the click to find fault. FFWD didn't make the filter, mitsubishi made the filter housing. So how is the flaw attributed to them? I certainly didn't say they were responsible for the flaw. They have a vested interest in the housing true but flaw is let's just say needs to be fixed! They didn't know this beforehand it not their fault and I am certainly not trying to hurt them. People aren't buying it because they know something is not right with a housing that bleeds all the time and I don't blame them! Next!

This my friend would be a course of wisdom! Because as long as this thread is open it will be defended because no one needs to even think running one of these ffofh is okay!

Now I'm really no expert. But I'll tell you that setting up several different Holset setups on several difference cars has taught me alot about engine oil pressure requirements. It's completely a case by case basis trying to "dial in" oil pressure for a particular setup. Without having accurate oil pressure measurements no changes should be made.

 

[pneumo]

So then this whole thread thrives on "Kels" personal beliefs not what the dsm population goes by and Mitsubishi standards. Got it


His test show that running a FFOFH didn't need to port it out. Are we on to something? Have we been porting out the OFH when all we had to do was just drill a small relief hole??

HAHA, that's what I've been doing for the past couple years. I think I built a dozen 4G63's this year alone and I drilled the filter housing just like the FFOFH on each one. It's simple and it works. I'm not going to tell you what size drill bit I use, but it's a special size I keep hidden in a corner of my toolbox. Oil pressure is still a little high on those engines but that's because I know how to build a tight engine. The extra pressure gives a little insurance in case something happens on the track, plus it means the engine can wear down a little and pressure will still be OK. It's all good.

I also like having the extra hole open all the time because of the way it purges air bubbles out of the oil stream. The road race engines can live longer if the pickup tube becomes exposed on high G-force corners . It works because air can go around a 90* corner easier than oil, so if there's a T intersection in the oil path the air will go around the corner while oil will travel along the straighter pathway. The bubbles purge out. Anyone notice the pressure relief valve is also a hard 90* turn along the oil path? Mitsubishi knows what they're doing.

 

[1qkfwd]

Since you exposed this Dave. A couple of us where talking today on how this mod would be better than say port out the OFH. Another benefit is that preregulated pressures won't be so high in the pump itself. I know the pump has a relief off the driven gear. I bet that things working overtime on engines without an OFH relief.

I mean come on. Mitsu had some engines with to high of oil pressures over other engines they designed. They didn't just port out the OFH. They chose a relief hole.

No worries on the size good buddy. It shouldn't be to hard to get the pressure adjusted starting small and working a way up til I get it right. Thanks got shedding light on that.

 

[pneumo]

Since you exposed this Dave. A couple of us where talking today on how this mod would be better than say port out the OFH. Another benefit is that preregulated pressures won't be so high in the pump itself. I know the pump has a relief off the driven gear. I bet that things working overtime on engines without an OFH relief.

I mean come on. Mitsu had some engines with to high of oil pressures over other engines they designed. They didn't just port out the OFH. They chose a relief hole.

No worries on the size good buddy. It shouldn't be to hard to get the pressure adjusted starting small and working a way up til I get it right. Thanks got shedding light on that.

The drill size was kinda easy to figure out. Just look at the oil clearance X circumference of the 3 balance shaft bearings that were eliminated, that'll give you the area. Then just use Pi to find the area of a similar size circle.

My personal theory is that Mitsu took the easy way out when they drilled the OFH. They have to keep costs down and keep production speed high, so IMHO they cast the raw housing with the little flat spot on all castings so they didn't have to make a different casting. Saved a buck on that move. Then they just decide to drill/no drill based on the specs of the engine it's going on. They can also use the exact same part number for the pressure relief valve assembly, saving another buck and simplifying production. It's actually not easy for Mitsu to make changes to the pressure relief valve assembly since there's a steel sleeve cast into the housing.

 

[keltalon]

the drill size was kinda easy to figure out. Just look at the oil clearance x circumference of the 3 balance shaft bearings that were eliminated, that'll give you the area. Then just use pi to find the area of a similar size circle.

My personal theory is that mitsu took the easy way out when they drilled the ofh. They have to keep costs down and keep production speed high, so imho they cast the raw housing with the little flat spot on all castings so they didn't have to make a different casting. Saved a buck on that move. Then they just decide to drill/no drill based on the specs of the engine it's going on. They can also use the exact same part number for the pressure relief valve assembly, saving another buck and simplifying production. It's actually not easy for mitsu to make changes to the pressure relief valve assembly since there's a steel sleeve cast into the housing.

!

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

HAHA, that's what I've been doing for the past couple years. I think I built a dozen 4G63's this year alone and I drilled the filter housing just like the FFOFH on each one. It's simple and it works. I'm not going to tell you what size drill bit I use, but it's a special size I keep hidden in a corner of my toolbox. Oil pressure is still a little high on those engines but that's because I know how to build a tight engine. The extra pressure gives a little insurance in case something happens on the track, plus it means the engine can wear down a little and pressure will still be OK. It's all good.

I also like having the extra hole open all the time because of the way it purges air bubbles out of the oil stream. The road race engines can live longer if the pickup tube becomes exposed on high G-force corners . It works because air can go around a 90* corner easier than oil, so if there's a T intersection in the oil path the air will go around the corner while oil will travel along the straighter pathway. The bubbles purge out. Anyone notice the pressure relief valve is also a hard 90* turn along the oil path? Mitsubishi knows what they're doing.

Since you exposed this Dave. A couple of us where talking today on how this mod would be better than say port out the OFH. Another benefit is that preregulated pressures won't be so high in the pump itself. I know the pump has a relief off the driven gear. I bet that things working overtime on engines without an OFH relief.

I mean come on. Mitsu had some engines with to high of oil pressures over other engines they designed. They didn't just port out the OFH. They chose a relief hole.

No worries on the size good buddy. It shouldn't be to hard to get the pressure adjusted starting small and working a way up til I get it right. Thanks got shedding light on that.

Yup, I touched on this 10 days ago

In fact, you would be better able to tailor your pressure vs. oil weight requirements with that hole present because to change or alter pressure, you now have two options:
- Shimming or cutting the piston spring as necessary, or installing a different one (JNZ unit for example)
- Threading/countersinking the FFOFH's relief hole for something like nitrous jets or similar orifices.

 

[serviceguy]

From the above posts I start thinking that welding that relief hole may work as a band aid solution to an inefficient oil pump.

 

[1qkfwd]

From the above posts I start thinking that welding that relief hole may work as a band aid solution to an inefficient oil pump.

Bone stock engine with higher miles, still has balance shafts, still has oil squirters, ya I can see maybe welding up that hole. That is if pressures are tested to low with the FFOFH. Ive got a 286K mile car that I am going to check pressures on against the FFOFH. Don't know when since its not my car. But ill have those numbers for the notebook to.

Yup, I touched on this 10 days ago

You did mention this to me. All the BS in such short time was hard to read through fast enough.

I see we are thinkin along the same lines though.

My personal theory is that Mitsu took the easy way out when they drilled the OFH. They have to keep costs down and keep production speed high, so IMHO they cast the raw housing with the little flat spot on all castings so they didn't have to make a different casting. Saved a buck on that move. Then they just decide to drill/no drill based on the specs of the engine it's going on. They can also use the exact same part number for the pressure relief valve assembly, saving another buck and simplifying production. It's actually not easy for Mitsu to make changes to the pressure relief valve assembly since there's a steel sleeve cast into the housing.

And that makes perfect sense. The 90 air cooled OFHs have the pad there but no hole. The water cooled ones do not.

 

[keltalon]

From the above posts I start thinking that welding that relief hole may work as a band aid solution to an inefficient oil pump.

So I take it that you are implying that the 1g original oil pump was an inadequate design therefore mitsubishi stopped putting the hole in the their filter housing?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

From the above posts I start thinking that welding that relief hole may work as a band aid solution to an inefficient oil pump.

I know you specifically said "band-aid," but this is something that shouldn't be half-assed. For the time and effort, you would probably be better switching to a 20w50 or 60W oil if you absolutely had to band-aid it to get to civilization. Both options in that scenario (access to a welder and some hand tools vs. a thicker oil) seem equally unlikely though, in my opinion.

I would be more concerned with saving that money/labor for replacing the actual oil pump at that point. Whether it's leakage losses in the pump housing from wear, or something else.

If you have diagnosed low pressure or inadequate flow back to the pump it's self, you are playing russian roulette with your motor by leaving it un-addressed.

If it's found to be the result of a badly performed BSE, your squirters check valve stuck open at startup/idle, main/rod clearances too loose, debris partially blocking a galley etc. welding the relief hole is not necessarily going to re-route enough oil to help.

So what happens when you fix the pump issue now that you have welded your OFH as a band-aid? Buy a new OFH too? Run a 0w20 to bring pressure back down? Re-drill the original relief hole? Cut the spring or open the port on the relief piston?

See what I'm getting at?

Besides as Dave noted, gasses are going to have an easier time changing direction in response to a pressure differential (Pre-Filter OFH chamber vs the sump) than a thick heavy liquid like oil. This would help ensure of what oil flow you do have, less air goes with it through the system.

So I take it that you are implying that the 1g original oil pump was an inadequate design therefore mitsubishi stopped putting the hole in the their filter housing?

Leaps and stretches like that tell me you missed your calling as a gymnast.

 

[serviceguy]

So I take it that you are implying that the 1g original oil pump was an inadequate design therefore mitsubishi stopped putting the hole in the their filter housing?

Not at all, I am only implying that the oil pump may have been not working as designed hence the low oil pressure. More precisely, since you didn't mention it specifically, I was wondering if your oil pump was new or if any wear in the front case may have caused less than ideal oil pump pressure.

LandSpeed, I wouldn't consider it as a fix, not even temporarily, if I had low oil pressure. But I am not going to a front facing oil filter housing either. It came to mind because I was reviewing the specs on the oil pump gear clearances and possible effects of excessively loose ones and kind of made the connection to this thread.

 

[keltalon]

Not at all, I am only implying that .I am not going to a front facing oil filter housing either. .

Okay finally a post I can agree with:sly:

 

[serviceguy]

Okay finally a post I can agree with:sly:

I strongly disagree with your manipulating my post instead.

I am not against you or in favor of you either, but I am surely not being impressed by your ways.

I can easily manipulate your posts and make you say that you don't have a clue about what your saying, how would you like that? Are you by any chance convinced to have discovered the use of a keyboard for editing purposes? You may want to start a thread about that too...

 

[keltalon]

I strongly disagree with your manipulating my post instead.

I am not against you or in favor of you either, but I am surely not being impressed by your ways.

I can easily manipulate your posts and make you say that you don't have a clue about what your saying, how would you like that? Are you by any chance convinced to have discovered the use of a keyboard for editing purposes? You may want to start a thread about that too...

You guys are a trip! You're gonna find fault If I agree or disagree. Very confusing.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Just walk away everyone... Lol

 

[serviceguy]

Just walk away everyone... Lol

Probably the only rational thing to do given the circumstances...unsubscribed with gusto!

 

[keltalon]

Just walk away everyone... Lol

Lol! Good advice! I fight to the end!

 

[1qkfwd]

Oh btw, I've been running a huge wix 1g filter over a factory Evo/2g filter and my pressures are higher. I see just about 95psi goin down the track so about 10psi higher than the smaller filter. My idle pressure is close to 20psi also so it's up 5 or so psi at idle.

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

Lol! Good advice! I fight to the end!

I cant tell if your agreeing all the time now, or just cant make up your own mind...
Still no pressures, or your just not going to share?

 

[keltalon]

I cant tell if your agreeing all the time now, or just cant make up your own mind...
Still no pressures, or your just not going to share?

Pressure test is coming. I am still in the middle of a few upgrades. When I reach my goal of 700whp in which I am about ready to dyno. then I will give this matter some attention. its coming

In the meantime I polished my housing the professional way check it out.

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Also got a new manifold to match

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Street version!

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[1qkfwd]

All that has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[boost97gst]

^^^^ It IS awful puuuurty tho ha. Nice set up Kels, all ffofh-talk aside, thats bad ass. When you going awd??? I know at the power you're puttting down its just layin rubber probably all the way through 3rd. If you had a good EBC then its a bit more useable i suppose, just speculating.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Yea, sure let's just forget the whole attempted character assassination used to distract from a complete logical failing over wild claims because "oh shiny!"

 

[92AWDHX40]

Sweet parts nice polish job, i like.