First runs with Cams on 420A

[740 Turbo Brick]

I just got back from the track, first time running my car since the install of Crower 2 camshafts. Few problems, it was really ####in hot, my car is still running on the stock ECU which doesnt like to see power made, the S-AFC isnt hooked up yet, shitty launch and my car was loaded with shit. Ricer excuses, I know.

Reaction--.0774
60--2.5150
330--6.9873
1/8 et--10.6069
1/8 mph--67.25
1000--13.7500
1/4 et--16.3888
1/4 mph--86.17

well, tear it up. Where can I improve?
My best runs before the cams was 16.65. It was also pretty cold that day, and I feel the cams are helping a lot even though the improvement isnt drastic.

 

[91-gsx]

Hi. First thing that jumps out at me is the MPH is a bit high for that quarter mile time, which is expected with a front wheel drive.. But looking at the 60' time, you could easily improve that time with a better launch. You should be able to pull a 2.2 second 60' with some practice and get a mid to high 15 second quarter mile slip. Now, I can see that you have a great reaction time, but remember that is not important when it comes to simply wanting to pull a better quarter mile time.. When the light turns green, you can prepare for the launch for as long as you want, and it will NOT affect your quarter mile time. So take your time when it comes to the reaction. When it comes to the launch, you want to rev the engine to about 2500-3000rpm, then you want to let the clutch out slowly enough to were you hear the tires chirp while you release the clutch the rest of the way, and then go on to press the gas pedal all the way down while the clutch pedal is about to be all the way up... It is not very easy but this will help you a lot with the quarter mile time. A few questions that might help us help you:
What RPM do you launch at?
Was there a huge burnout off the line or tire hop?
What is the weight of the car?
Any weight reduction?
What octane gas?
Is this an automatic or manual?

If you plan on using the SAFC, do you have a wideband? You will need that to make full use of the SAFC. And a way to log the car would not hurt at this level. If that is the same DOHC engine that they had available for the 95 Dodge Neon DOHC, then you can buy a MOPAR ECU off this website http://www.modernperformance.com/mopar-performance-19951999-neons-p-1429.html . That ECU will help a lot with your mods. It will also allow you to shift higher, they say 7600rpm redline, but when I had this ECU on my SOHC 96 Dodge Neon, I could rev it to 8100rpm.. Either way, the higher redline will help sense you have cams. You do have to use 91-93 octane with that ECU however. This is a long post, but if it helps you get a better time, then it was worth it. Good luck

 

[740 Turbo Brick]

Hi. First thing that jumps out at me is the MPH is a bit high for that quarter mile time, which is expected with a front wheel drive.. But looking at the 60' time, you could easily improve that time with a better launch. You should be able to pull a 2.2 second 60' with some practice and get a mid to high 15 second quarter mile slip. Now, I can see that you have a great reaction time, but remember that is not important when it comes to simply wanting to pull a better quarter mile time.. When the light turns green, you can prepare for the launch for as long as you want, and it will NOT affect your quarter mile time. So take your time when it comes to the reaction. When it comes to the launch, you want to rev the engine to about 2500-3000rpm, then you want to let the clutch out slowly enough to were you hear the tires chirp while you release the clutch the rest of the way, and then go on to press the gas pedal all the way down while the clutch pedal is about to be all the way up... It is not very easy but this will help you a lot with the quarter mile time. A few questions that might help us help you:
What RPM do you launch at?
Was there a huge burnout off the line or tire hop?
What is the weight of the car?
Any weight reduction?
What octane gas?
Is this an automatic or manual?

If you plan on using the SAFC, do you have a wideband? You will need that to make full use of the SAFC. And a way to log the car would not hurt at this level. If that is the same DOHC engine that they had available for the 95 Dodge Neon DOHC, then you can buy a MOPAR ECU off this website http://www.modernperformance.com/mopar-performance-19951999-neons-p-1429.html . That ECU will help a lot with your mods. It will also allow you to shift higher, they say 7600rpm redline, but when I had this ECU on my SOHC 96 Dodge Neon, I could rev it to 8100rpm.. Either way, the higher redline will help sense you have cams. You do have to use 91-93 octane with that ECU however. This is a long post, but if it helps you get a better time, then it was worth it. Good luck

Thanks for the info man. Im not the best at launching yet, still working on it. My 60s did get better thru the night though. To answer some questions,

What RPM do you launch at?
I used to have a different technique. I would hold the ebrake up, hold the gas around 2k, and slip the clutch until the car was fightng the ebrake. Then the tree came down I would spike the gas and dump the clutch. Seemed to work at the time, but yesterday I just tried sitting there with the clutch all the way down, revving around 2500 and launching like I would if I was messing with someone at a redlight.
Was there a huge burnout off the line or tire hop?
first run of the night I was running 40 psi in the tires, so they spun clear thru first. Following runs I lowered the tires to 20 psi, and did a burnout in the box. These were 14 inch stock RS wheels. The burnout plus slipping the clutch was getting me to spin less.
What is the weight of the car?
Not exactly sure, but its in the area of 3000 lbs
Any weight reduction?
Actually, I had weight addition last night. I had in my car, my 150 lb sub box, spare tire and jack, my GF was in the car with me, 3/4 tank of gas, and a bunch of other stuff in the back seat. Next time I go, Im going to try to lighten it as much as reasonable.
What octane gas?
Ive been running 93 since the cams went in, on the way home from the track I got 89, may stick here for the time being.
Is this an automatic or manual?
Manual, shifting at 7000.


I have an AEM Uego Wideband installed in my downpipe, and I have an SAFC, but have not installed it yet. Ive also been looking for a way to datalog, but havent really come up with anything yet. I heard something about the OBD logger I was going to look into. Im also going to be getting Adjustable cam gears, so I have a bit of tuning to do.

Also, Im not sure on the ECU between the Neon and the Eclipse. Technically, the 420As are the same, but the heads are different and the sensors may be too.

 

[740 Turbo Brick]

Also, this was with my Cat installed. For the sake of how loud the thing is, I didnt put my test pipe in. Maybe next time I go..

 

[DSMcrazy3]

Neon ECU isn't fully compatible. You can run one as a last option if yours goes out and you find one for relatively cheap, but don't do it if max. performance is on your mind.

Also, lose the SAFC2. Pretty big waste for the 420a.

 

[740 Turbo Brick]

Its the original, not the II. Either way though, I was told it will at least help a little. In the upper RPMs under WOT Im seeing 11.5 AFRs. Im looking for 12.5. Its either the SAFC, or MSnS. And I def dont have the cash or time for that right now.

 

[91-gsx]

All the weight you take out of the car, and the girlfriend will help a lot . You seem to have the launch down reasonably. Sense you have that wideband, you should get that SAFC on there and lean it out to 12.5-13.5a/f. Just make sure when you lean it out, that you use better then 89 octane gas.. Just for safety. The SAFC will lean the car out by tricking the ECU into thinking that less air is coming in, and when this happens the ECU will also add more timing. Another reason to run better gas for added safety.. I would recommend; Getting the SAFC on and leaning it out once you have a way of logging for knock. Then find a way to rev the engine out more and make better use of the cams. Last thing you should look into is an intake manifold to bring all of your mods together. They have a few on ebay for the 420A.. Hope this helps. Later

 

[740 Turbo Brick]

Yeah, Thanks for all the help. Im going to look into a way to start logging and probably start playing with the SAFC. Next time I go to the track Ill gut it and put the test pipe in.

 

[740 Turbo Brick]

Well to update this, I went to the track 2 weeks after I posted that and ran a bit better, mostly with help from BullettDSM, he showed me the magic that is no lift shifting.

R: .0916
60: 2.32
1/8: [email protected]
1/4: [email protected]

Stock ECU under full control, FULL tank of gas, removed subs, spare tire, other small weight reductions. RS wheels on front with 20 psi in tires. Burnout in the box, launching at 4k with almost no wheel spin. No lift shift at about 7k to second.


Also, this was probably one of the best parts of the night. When I ran the 16.09 I saw these 2 older guys on the sidelines watching me. I get back to the pits and pop my hood, sit in my car for a few minutes. They were walking thru the pits and walk by my car and say "Wow, that was all motor, too."



My plans have changed slightly, instead of going with an AFX ECU, Im just going to commit to getting MS installed this winter. Buying the 420A kit from Symtech and doing all the wiring in a garage, getting it out in the spring to tune it.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Well to update this, I went to the track 2 weeks after I posted that and ran a bit better, mostly with help from BullettDSM, he showed me the magic that is no lift shifting.

R: .0916
60: 2.32
1/8: [email protected]
1/4: [email protected]

Stock ECU under full control, FULL tank of gas, removed subs, spare tire, other small weight reductions. RS wheels on front with 20 psi in tires. Burnout in the box, launching at 4k with almost no wheel spin. No lift shift at about 7k to second.


Also, this was probably one of the best parts of the night. When I ran the 16.09 I saw these 2 older guys on the sidelines watching me. I get back to the pits and pop my hood, sit in my car for a few minutes. They were walking thru the pits and walk by my car and say "Wow, that was all motor, too."



My plans have changed slightly, instead of going with an AFX ECU, Im just going to commit to getting MS installed this winter. Buying the 420A kit from Symtech and doing all the wiring in a garage, getting it out in the spring to tune it.

Why a full tank of gas? Why not 1/4? Extra weight for no reason really. I would also, if you havent already, remove the back seats, trunk interior, front and back bumper support bars (the white ones). That should yield almost 50 lbs or so. With the 1/4 tank of gas, your looking at more like 75lbs.

Good luck and keep running that sucker.

 

[bullettdsm]

My plans have changed slightly, instead of going with an AFX ECU, Im just going to commit to getting MS installed this winter. Buying the 420A kit from Symtech and doing all the wiring in a garage, getting it out in the spring to tune it and 14's here I come!

Fixed for yah.

Good luck with her. I'm actually pretty confident that you will be able to do that. You don't waste your seat time like some do

MB

 

[NeMiZiS]

My plans have changed slightly, instead of going with an AFX ECU, Im just going to commit to getting MS installed this winter. Buying the 420A kit from Symtech and doing all the wiring in a garage, getting it out in the spring to tune it.

Do they even make a AFX ECU for 95's?
I didn't think they did or I would have one.

 

[DSM-ZERO]

i would run 15.8 to 15.9 all motor with CAI, header, cat back, msd coil and wires....stock 16's with street tires...soo 16.0 is a good time

 

[95talongirl]

IMO, the SAFC will be a waste on your car.... those are designed for cars that use a MAF sensor. The 420A cars are speed density.... so a SAFC won't work properly with it. If you can swing it, I'd recommend Megasquirt.. it's not all that expensive and would give you complete control. I'm sure you could also get one of those UEGO AEM wideband controllers, and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and mess with the A/F that way, as well. But I vote Megasquirt.

It is a bummer the neon pcm won't work completely... the Mopar Performance one was awesome... I used to have a 99 R/T neon with a CAI, Mopar PCM, and Borla exhaust that ran in the low 15's. On slicks, it could've seen high 14's. .

Good luck!

 

[bullettdsm]

Do they even make a AFX ECU for 95's?

He's claiming to on his site. I haven't seen one yet (other than 97) so I'll believe it when I see it

IMO, the SAFC will be a waste on your car.... those are designed for cars that use a MAF sensor. The 420A cars are speed density.... so a SAFC won't work properly with it.

Nah, it'll help you.....a little. I was able to gain about 3-4 whp peak and a little on the curve with the safc on the NA (its on the site somewhere, ). Probably not worth buying one, but since I already had it from my AWD, I figured I'd give it a shot on the dyno.

MB