2G F5M33 (2G GST) trans questions

[tschuhly]

Hey all,

I cracked open my trans to make sure everything looks good before throwing it in my car and noticed a couple things that I wanted to double check about. Also, it appears it has been apart before since there was black RTV around the case.

1. I noticed on the idler pulley (the small one that sits in the middle) there is a ring that looks like something like a circlip is meant to go there. There was nothing there when I took it off. Is it missing something or is this normal? I'm thinking maybe it's an oil channel or something.

2. A couple of the bearing races that go in the end of the case fell out one I pulled the shafts out. Aren't they supposed to be a little tighter than that? I always thought they were pressed in. Should I get new ones even though these all look good otherwise?

Thanks all!

 

[dwb]

Can you post a pic of what you mean with the c-clip?
I've had the bearing races fall out too. Even new ones. They aren't necessarily pressed in, but I don't think you want them so loose they are spinning against the case either. I'm curious what the group consensus is.
If you haven't already, now is the time to replace the input shaft seal. Shift selector seal too if you can manage to remove the shift arm/pin.

 

[tschuhly]

Can you post a pic of what you mean with the c-clip?
I've had the bearing races fall out too. Even new ones. They aren't necessarily pressed in, but I don't think you want them so loose they are spinning against the case either. I'm curious what the group consensus is.
If you haven't already, now is the time to replace the input shaft seal. Shift selector seal too if you can manage to remove the shift arm/pin.

Thank you so much! I'll take pics when I get back over there for ya! I got some seals but I'm not sure if I got all of them. I figured I'd replace those but I'm glad you said the shift arm seal because I wasn't thinking about that one!

 

[pauleyman]

Some races are pressed in, others aren't. The races that have shims under them are not press fit. The piece you mention sounds like the 5th driven gear. It has a lip on it. The lip is just to aid in its removal should it be stubborn.

 

[tschuhly]

Some races are pressed in, others aren't. The races that have shims under them are not press fit. The piece you mention sounds like the 5th driven gear. It has a lip on it. The lip is just to aid in its removal should it be stubborn

Can you post a pic of what you mean with the c-clip?
I've had the bearing races fall out too. Even new ones. They aren't necessarily pressed in, but I don't think you want them so loose they are spinning against the case either. I'm curious what the group consensus is.
If you haven't already, now is the time to replace the input shaft seal. Shift selector seal too if you can manage to remove the shift arm/pin.

Any advice on where to find the shift selector seal? I can't find one with a quick search.

 

[tschuhly]

Any advice on where to find the shift selector seal? I can't find one with a quick search.

nevermind! I found one!

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

 

[tschuhly]

Some races are pressed in, others aren't. The races that have shims under them are not press fit. The piece you mention sounds like the 5th driven gear. It has a lip on it. The lip is just to aid in its removal should it be stubborn.

Here's a picture of the gear

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[pauleyman]

Here's a picture of the gear

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Yup that's it. That lip doesn't do anything. Its just to aid in removal.

Just to elaborate, all of the races with shins under them are tight tolerance slip fit. You can slide the races in and out easily. Tip* rotate the race as you install into the case. If it sticks tap it gently with a hammer handle. These races require no force at all to install. Literally install by hand. Thats why they sometimes fall out.

 

[luv2rallye]

Highly suggest you measure (and set by using proper thickness shims under the bearing races) the bearings preloads using the factory manual's "solder method" before reassembling the cases since you did all this work to remove and disassemble the tranny. When done right, the tranny will then shift like butter and last many years. I did mine and glad I did. https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/gearbox-shimming-expert-needed.432456/#post-152943858 and https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/f...ment-more-photos.534522/page-2#post-153806136.

 

[tschuhly]

Highly suggest you measure (and set with using proper thickness races under the bearings) the bearings preloads using the factory manual's "solder method" before reassembling the cases since you did all this work to remove and disassemble the tranny. When done right, the tranny will then shift like butter and last many years. I did mine and glad I did. https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/gearbox-shimming-expert-needed.432456/#post-152943858 and https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/f...ment-more-photos.534522/page-2#post-153806136.

I appreciate the info. I guess I just get scared about doing stuff this in depth and messing something up. My plan was to look for any obvious wear or broken parts, clean and then put everything back together exactly how it came out. When it comes to preloads and what not, that scares me haha! I'll have to look into it a little more.

I will say that I am glad that I read your tagged threads because it is making me wonder if my shift forks are worn. I may try to take a picture of them and post, just to get your opinion since you clearly are more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am.

 

[tschuhly]

Highly suggest you measure (and set with using proper thickness races under the bearings) the bearings preloads using the factory manual's "solder method" before reassembling the cases since you did all this work to remove and disassemble the tranny. When done right, the tranny will then shift like butter and last many years. I did mine and glad I did. https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/gearbox-shimming-expert-needed.432456/#post-152943858 and https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/f...ment-more-photos.534522/page-2#post-153806136.

Alright, I did some reading up on this and I want to see if I understand correctly what I am to do. I am a complete novice when it comes to this (not even really understanding the term preload). From what I understand, in doing the solder method it is helping you to determine the amount of empty space between the race and the housing where the race is sitting in. The measurement of the solder after it has been pressed is the "0" measurement and the preload number that Tim gives in his many posts, including the one tagged above, is the extra amount that you would add to that "0". Therefore, to properly preload, I should measure the solder thickness post-pressed and then add the preload number. This would tell me the total thickness of the shim that I would need. Is this correct?

I read through the manual, and I think the method actually seems pretty straight forward, I just need to ensure I use the correct type of solder. At this point, does it make sense to just buy all new bearings, or should I stick with mine as long as they look fine?

I read a different post about the transmission stuff where the person said that they are a chronic overthinker...I would say the same is true for myself haha.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ok I think you've got when to have preload and offset backwards. For tapered bearings you use "preload" which actually presses the bearing into the race by the preload amount (so the shim thickness must be more than what you measure to provide this "preload"). On non-tapered bearings you use "offset" which then provides a small "offset" space between the bearing and the race (so the shim thickness must be less than what you measure to provide this "offset"). Do you understand?

The solder method is difficult and labor intensive to do and NO tranny shop ever actually does it (even when they say they did - I have proof of this) because of the time it takes and difficulty. You can most likely get away without doing it too as long as your input and intermediate shafts can't slide end to end when the clam shells are together and assembly bolts are torqued down to spec and also if you can turn those shafts by hand. In fact as a beginner, I recommend you not doing it if those two things are true and you don't have any obvious issues with the tranny (like gear pop-outs due to excessive gear shaft movement, bad bearings, etc).

However if you do the solder method make sure you use rosin core solder (not silver, or solid, or hollow core) so the solder doesn't expand after disassembling the clam shell halves giving you a false reading. I also did the entire procedure 3 times and averaged results (and discarded any obvious expanded measurements). Applying a little grease on the solder will help keep it in place while assembling the clam halves.

10/21/2025 correction: Deleted comment about AWD only uses non-tapered bearings as most bearings are tapered in both AWD and FWD.

 

[pauleyman]

Alright, I did some reading up on this and I want to see if I understand correctly what I am to do. I am a complete novice when it comes to this (not even really understanding the term preload). From what I understand, in doing the solder method it is helping you to determine the amount of empty space between the race and the housing where the race is sitting in. The measurement of the solder after it has been pressed is the "0" measurement and the preload number that Tim gives in his many posts, including the one tagged above, is the extra amount that you would add to that "0". Therefore, to properly preload, I should measure the solder thickness post-pressed and then add the preload number. This would tell me the total thickness of the shim that I would need. Is this correct?

Yes this is corrrect.

I read through the manual, and I think the method actually seems pretty straight forward, I just need to ensure I use the correct type of solder. At this point, does it make sense to just buy all new bearings, or should I stick with mine as long as they look fine?

If there any pitting or fretting replace them.

I read a different post about the transmission stuff where the person said that they are a chronic overthinker...I would say the same is true for myself haha.

 

[tschuhly]

Ok you've got it backwards - a FWD tranny has tapered bearings (AWD has the non-tapered bearings). For tapered bearings (FWD tranny) you use "preload" which actually presses the bearing into the race by the preload amount (so the shim thickness must be more than what you measure to provide this "preload"). On non-tapered (AWD tranny) bearings you use "offset" which then provides a small "offset" space between the bearing and the race (so the shim thickness must be less than what you measure to provide this "offset"). Do you understand?

The solder method is difficult and labor intensive to do and NO tranny shop ever actually does it (even when they say they did - I have proof of this) because of the time it takes and difficulty. You can most likely get away without doing it too as long as your input and intermediate shafts can't slide end to end when the clam shells are together and assembly bolts are torqued down to spec and also if you can turn those shafts by hand. In fact as a beginner, I recommend you not doing it if those two things are true and you don't have any obvious issues with the tranny (like gear pop-outs due to excessive gear shaft movement, bad bearings, etc).

However if you do the solder method make sure you use rosin core solder (not silver, or solid, or hollow core) so the solder doesn't expand after disassembling the clam shell halves giving you a false reading. I also did the entire procedure 3 times and averaged results (and discarded any obvious expanded measurements). Applying a little grease on the solder will help keep it in place while assembling the clam halves.

I think what I might do is just get this transmission back together without doing it to get the car on the road (hopefully). I then have an Evo III trans sitting her that I will take my time rebuilding the right way doing this method and replacing everything needed. The guy that I got everything from said that it has been a little while since he used the trans but he remembers it being really smooth.

The bearings and races look really good! No pitting, scratches, rust, or fretting that I can see. I am pretty sure the synchros and gears all look really good too. I attached pictures of the shifter forks and the shift selector bushing after reading some of the threads that you posted to see about the wear on them. The fifth gear one looks really good to me but the others I'm not so sure about. When these wear out is there a way to restore them or do you just throw it away and hope to find a used one that isn't worn too bad?

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[pauleyman]

I think what I might do is just get this transmission back together without doing it to get the car on the road (hopefully). I then have an Evo III trans sitting her that I will take my time rebuilding the right way doing this method and replacing everything needed. The guy that I got everything from said that it has been a little while since he used the trans but he remembers it being really smooth.

The bearings and races look really good! No pitting, scratches, rust, or fretting that I can see. I am pretty sure the synchros and gears all look really good too.

pretty sure?? Youre right there, measure the synchros. They have a wear spec. Same for gear teeth. You can see the sleeve and synchros teeth and see if they're bad. You don't even have to take anything apart.

 

[tschuhly]

pretty sure?? Youre right there, measure the synchros. They have a wear spec. Same for gear teeth. You can see the sleeve and synchros teeth and see if they're bad. You don't even have to take anything apart.

True dat. I am kind of learning as I am going and didn't really realize the part of the synchros that wore out. I thought it was the teeth but it looks like the manual points out that it is actually the outside/inside of the ring. I will definitely check them before throwing it back in!

Can I just take a second to thank you both, pauleyman and luv2rallye for being such DSM heroes on here. You both have been so helpful to me in this whole build, and I am fairly certain that this has been on more than one occasion for me. People like you are who keep the DSM community alive and make restoring fun instead of a lonely, frustrating endeavor.

​

 

[luv2rallye]

Your forks look good. Here's a pic of my worn 3-4 fork that was rubbing on the slider (aka synchronizer sleeve):

popping out of 4th gear

4th has lately liked to pop out right after I shift into it unless I hold it in for a second, then after that its fine until the next shift into 4th. Or if I slam it into 4th from 3rd really hard then its fine until the next shift into 4th. When stopped I have to let up the clutch very slowly...

www.dsmtuners.com

Here's a pic of a worn syncro:

2G Transmission First and Second Gear Problems

I bought my car with a blown clutch, so after buying it I replaced the clutch. When I first drove it the car would not go into first gear from a standstill. I replaced the poppet balls and springs and I could get it into gear about 1/3 of the time from a standstill (I have to slam it in though)...

www.dsmtuners.com

And here's a tip on installing a new 36mm nut:

5th gear shift inside tranny

so this happened. went to STM with the case and the tech told me this is a commonality among the 2g FWD cars. he explained how the 36 mm nut can loosen allowing the gear input or output to shift grinding away its case leading to a hole as well as taking some of the transmission with it. he said...

www.dsmtuners.com

 

[pauleyman]

True dat. I am kind of learning as I am going and didn't really realize the part of the synchros that wore out. I thought it was the teeth but it looks like the manual points out that it is actually the outside/inside of the ring. I will definitely check them before throwing it back in!

Can I just take a second to thank you both, pauleyman and luv2rallye for being such DSM heroes on here. You both have been so helpful to me in this whole build, and I am fairly certain that this has been on more than one occasion for me. People like you are who keep the DSM community alive and make restoring fun instead of a lonely, frustrating endeavor.

​

If we didn't do it the platform wouldn't survive.
Btw the teeth are a problem too but the wear is actually the friction surfaces just like a brake pad. All you need are feeler gauges to check. I've opened more than one trans where the flat surface of the synchro was sitting on the gear. Completely gone.

 

[tschuhly]

How in the world do you get the shift selector shaft out to replace the seal? I saw a post where you remove the exterior pieces but I banged on them to no avail. Then I see everyone else saying to remove it from the inside but cannot figure out how to remove everything to do this. The spring pin is blocked by the case and the tapered lock pin seems to be inserted to come out towards me so I can't get anything behind it to tap it out. I heard that you can use a motorcycle chain tool to deal with the pins but wanted to see if there was any advice before I do out and try this and potentially mess something up .

 

[19Eclipse90]

How To: Replace shifter lever oil seal

Second post shows the chain break method.

 

[tschuhly]

Alright, so I finally have been able to get back over to the car and after putting the transmission back together (following a guide and trying to make sure it was exactly how it came apart) it feels very difficult to turn the shaft while in neutral. I used the same shims that were in it already so I don't think it is that but could be. I tried torquing the shaft nuts to 110 ft/lbs. Could I have over tightened these to cause this? I have no idea what else it could be. Any help and advice on what to check would be appreciated.

 

[pauleyman]

Alright, so I finally have been able to get back over to the car and after putting the transmission back together (following a guide and trying to make sure it was exactly how it came apart) it feels very difficult to turn the shaft while in neutral. I used the same shims that were in it already so I don't think it is that but could be. I tried torquing the shaft nuts to 110 ft/lbs. Could I have over tightened these to cause this? I have no idea what else it could be. Any help and advice on what to check would be appreciated.

Does it have new bearings? Did yiu preload the input shaft?

 

[tschuhly]

Does it have new bearings? Did yiu preload the input shaft?

I just used the old bearings since they looked great and didn't preload because I'm not super knowledgeable able transmission stuff so I figured if the old shims worked with those bearings, they probably be fine to just throw back in there.

I went over and loosened the nuts and it seemed to make it looser so I'm thinking it's that. The problem now is, I can't trust my torque wrench haha!

 

[luv2rallye]

Loosing the 36mm nuts to allow the input shaft to turn is NOT CORRECT, dangerous, and an extremely bad idea. That can cause hard/blocked shifts, gear pop-outs, the nut continuing to loosen more and more which can cause possible gear teeth damage (since the gear pairs eventually will no longer line up correctly). The correct, and only way, is to adjust bearing preload by selecting the proper thickness shims under the bearing races, using the factory manual's "solder method" to determine them (their thickness). Yes it is tedious, time consuming, and labor intensive but how many times do you want to keep pulling your tranny for it not working properly?

I also recommend (as will any tranny rebuilder) replacing the bearings with new ones (as they wear) even though they appear fine. FYI: New bearings come with their races. For extremely technical questions/answers and tranny shims, bearings, and parts contact Twicks69 on here who is the tranny guru and professional tranny rebuilder (aka Tim Zimmer of tmzperformance.com).

 

[tschuhly]

Loosing the 36mm nuts to allow the input shaft to turn is NOT CORRECT, dangerous, and an extremely bad idea. That can cause hard/blocked shifts, gear pop-outs, the nut continuing to loosen more and more which can cause possible gear teeth damage (since the gear pairs eventually will no longer line up correctly). The correct, and only way, is to adjust bearing preload by selecting the proper thickness shims under the bearing races, using the factory manual's "solder method" to determine them (their thickness). Yes it is tedious, time consuming, and labor intensive but how many times do you want to keep pulling your tranny for it not working properly?

I also recommend (as will any tranny rebuilder) replacing the bearings with new ones (as they wear) even though they appear fine. FYI: New bearings come with their races. For extremely technical questions/answers and tranny shims, bearings, and parts contact Twicks69 on here who is the tranny guru and professional tranny rebuilder (aka Tim Zimmer of tmzperformance.com).

I appreciate the input. I actually ordered the new nuts from him yesterday. Both he and you have been a tremendous help! To clarify, I was just loosening the nuts to determine if I had overtightened them or something. I am wondering if my torque wrench is not calibrated and when I try to torque them to 110lbs if it is really torquing them beyond that.